Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
joshatsilca wrote:

For Brentwood, you can sleep soundly knowing that the gasket damps sound even when not in the ideal location..but yes, matching the size of the extension to the valve and the rim is critical for getting the gasket right at the hole edge, and in the case of 51 or 60mm valves on rims 60mm and shallower, there just isn't anywhere on the extension that the gasket can physically exist due to geometry of the thread interface. However, we can and do guarantee the air tightness of the extension..which is not easy considering the massive variance in styles, designs, and tolerances of valve stems on the market. We are the only extension that I know of using pre-applied sealants, and we also include o-ring seals specifically designed for the extension/stem interface..so they are completely air-tight, every time, guaranteed..and I don't know of anybody who can or will say that about any similar product.


FWIW... I could care less about the noise... I've never noticed it on my bike.

And a guarantee still isn't a money back guarantee. I'm happy to pay $34 just for the air sealant... but I am not okay with forking over $34 for something I have 5 of and get free from my mechanic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a5dpBpaFiMo
Last edited by: BrentwoodTriGuy: Jul 10, 14 17:59
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So the problem with 'money back guarantee' is that nobody learns anything in the process associated with that sales tactic. This works great for companies who have tons some product to shill on late night TV and need to lower the perceived risk of the consumer. So if you are selling GeneriClean on late night TV, you offer 'money back guarantee' to get people to try it, and if they really hate it, they get their money back and you keep focusing on selling the million gallons of GeneriClean that you have coming ashore on container ships from China.. and best of all, you just have to sell it at a price that can absorb the % of people who successfully get their refund.

In my world, our goal is 0% problems/issues/refunds, but the only way we get there is by learning from each other and improving the product as we go. I'm not shilling the million valve extensions on a container from China, I'm making and assembling them myself (with 2 employees) one at a time. So if I'm selling valve extenders which have worked well for the first 200 people and they don't work for you, then I need to start working through a fairly specific process to figure out why so that either we can improve our part, we can improve the information for consumers about our part, or we can isolate problematic combinations with other parts and try to address them, whether it be with our product or with the ill-mating product. So to me, 'Money back guarantee' means, 'nobody learns anything and nothing improves', and that doesn't work for me. In fact, what we offer, is more me putting my most valuable people on your problem for signifigant periods of time, pay shipping both ways, replace product at our cost, work with you personally, work with your mechanic or shop..all at no cost to you so that the problem can be SOLVED, not just band-aided by the revenue of additional sales to people who feel their purchase is less risky because they can get their money back.

So ultimately, what we offer our customers is that we will spend many times the purchase price of your product in our time, money and product in order to not only understand and solve the problem, but to make sure others don't have that same problem, and to make future products better both ours, and the mating products. However, our way does involve the participation of the consumer, and if our customer isn't interested in participating in that process, then it doesn't work for either of us.

So like I said initially, we make stuff that works, it works really well, but like anything designed or made by anybody, it cannot yet be perfect, and it can certainly be designed or made better. So if our stuff doesn't work for you, then we need to work with you to determine why, and we do what is needed to make it right both in the short term, and in the long term through improving future generations of the product.

http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
GreatScott wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
51mm tubes have really complicated things as they put the valve threads more or less at the inner edge of rims in the 55-60mm range. 32, 37 and 42mm tubes are by far the most common and we have solutions that will work with any of those on rims at this depth. On the upside, the rubber sleeves are more aero than smooth, they will damp noise even if they don't eliminate it and they look awesome on your wheels, but as you can see in the picture, the flats and threads on the bottom of the extension are in the rim hole where you would want the gasket to be and the threads are about 2mm below that because the valve is just too long.

We are working on a cross-reference guide to help with this, but it has been incredibly difficult to get actual valve stem lengths from everybody as well as tire well depths from the wheel manufacturers..but we will get there.


Ugh. This would have been good to know before placing my order (below).

GreatScott wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
The very cool side effect of these extensions is that you have to size them correctly, and when you do, you only have as much valve protruding as you need..so there is a very real aero benefit for most people.
J


Hey Josh. What sizes would you recommend for a Flo 60 and a Flo 90, both with a 51mm RVC tube?

I've done the math and just figured it wouldn't hurt to double check before completing my purchase.

Scott

I'm hoping to finish up some testing with our 60 and 90 tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes.

Take care,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just got my extenders. Tried on a Hed JET 5 with a 48mm bontrager tube and it's too long to hit the rubber/dampening material.

I wanted to try to standardize all the tubes, but might have to consider keeping two tube sizes around. I will say the sealant makes for a reassuring hold and seal.
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
BrentwoodTriGuy wrote:
Is the air seal better? I think $34 is worth it just for that (even if I run 60s with latex tubes).



BrentwoodTriGuy wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
We use a thread-seal coating on all threads of the extensions. The RVC extensions get a clear coating that is about the viscosity of acetone, a tiny dropper drops it on and it wicks around like magic..pretty cool stuff. That in combination with the rubber seal makes the RVC version completely bullet-proof. On the tube type universal extensions, we use a high viscosity white thread-seal which is quite similar to Teflon tape, but we apply it as a liquid so that the inner thread is fully coated. We also have little custom sized O-rings that drop over the presta valve before you install the RVC..sort of a belt+suspenders approach to the problem, but between the two, they cannot leak, and they will not loosen up over time.


I asked a fellow member so it wasn't coming from someone who profits off the product...


Do we have "user conformation" on the air tightness of the extenders? I have a leaky valve that is driving me crazy and remain hopeful in this solution. Do I make a change two weeks before IMC?

Scott
Last edited by: GreatScott: Jul 12, 14 12:11
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:
GreatScott wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
51mm tubes have really complicated things as they put the valve threads more or less at the inner edge of rims in the 55-60mm range. 32, 37 and 42mm tubes are by far the most common and we have solutions that will work with any of those on rims at this depth. On the upside, the rubber sleeves are more aero than smooth, they will damp noise even if they don't eliminate it and they look awesome on your wheels, but as you can see in the picture, the flats and threads on the bottom of the extension are in the rim hole where you would want the gasket to be and the threads are about 2mm below that because the valve is just too long.

We are working on a cross-reference guide to help with this, but it has been incredibly difficult to get actual valve stem lengths from everybody as well as tire well depths from the wheel manufacturers..but we will get there.


Ugh. This would have been good to know before placing my order (below).

GreatScott wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
The very cool side effect of these extensions is that you have to size them correctly, and when you do, you only have as much valve protruding as you need..so there is a very real aero benefit for most people.
J


Hey Josh. What sizes would you recommend for a Flo 60 and a Flo 90, both with a 51mm RVC tube?

I've done the math and just figured it wouldn't hurt to double check before completing my purchase.

Scott

I'm hoping to finish up some testing with our 60 and 90 tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes.

Take care,

Howdy Chris,

Thanks for chiming in. Just another example of why Flo rocks. Any results from Flo's Myth Buster Lab?

Scott
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
GreatScott wrote:
Canadian wrote:
GreatScott wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
51mm tubes have really complicated things as they put the valve threads more or less at the inner edge of rims in the 55-60mm range. 32, 37 and 42mm tubes are by far the most common and we have solutions that will work with any of those on rims at this depth. On the upside, the rubber sleeves are more aero than smooth, they will damp noise even if they don't eliminate it and they look awesome on your wheels, but as you can see in the picture, the flats and threads on the bottom of the extension are in the rim hole where you would want the gasket to be and the threads are about 2mm below that because the valve is just too long.

We are working on a cross-reference guide to help with this, but it has been incredibly difficult to get actual valve stem lengths from everybody as well as tire well depths from the wheel manufacturers..but we will get there.


Ugh. This would have been good to know before placing my order (below).

GreatScott wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
The very cool side effect of these extensions is that you have to size them correctly, and when you do, you only have as much valve protruding as you need..so there is a very real aero benefit for most people.
J


Hey Josh. What sizes would you recommend for a Flo 60 and a Flo 90, both with a 51mm RVC tube?

I've done the math and just figured it wouldn't hurt to double check before completing my purchase.

Scott


I'm hoping to finish up some testing with our 60 and 90 tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes.

Take care,


Howdy Chris,

Thanks for chiming in. Just another example of why Flo rocks. Any results from Flo's Myth Buster Lab?

Scott

The only tubes I was able to source locally were the 48mm version. Unfortunately the 45mm Silca extender is a tad bit too long to work with our FLO 60 but the 60mm Silca extender works perfectly with our FLO 90. From my discussions with Josh, a 37mm tube will work perfectly with a 45mm extender and a FLO 60. My sources simply didn't carry that length. I'm chatting with Josh behind the scenes to try and find a better answer. I want to be able to recommend one tube length that works with a specific Silca extender for both our FLO 60 and 90.

Beside the minor fit issue we are dealing with, I have to say I'm really impressed with the product. Wrapping plumbers tape on your extenders isn't the end of the world, but it's a step that shouldn't need to be taken. Josh's design is really effective. After your rubber washer is installed (which is easy to do), you simply screw the extender on. They hold air really well too.

It's one of those products you use where you say... "that's how it was supposed to be done" OR "why didn't anyone else think of this?".

I hope that helps,


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So if I am measuring a tube, where do I measure to get the "length? I want shorter stuff, like the 32, but want to make sure what I have already.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Josh,
So it sounds like, if you are using 404 clinchers and most latex tubes (which seem to have valve stems ranging from 47.5-52mm) these wont quite work as would be ideal (I think pyf asked the same question). Seems like that combination could represent a pretty big percentage of potential buyers no?
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
So if I am measuring a tube, where do I measure to get the "length? I want shorter stuff, like the 32, but want to make sure what I have already.

.

The tube length should be stated on the box the tube comes in. Do you still have the box?


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the feedback. I love that Flo and Silca are working together to integrate the products. We all win with that approach!

Ps - I'm following the "new product thread" and look forward to seeing the latest and greatest innovation from Flo.

Scott
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Really good stuff on this thread everybody! Thanks to Canadian for chiming in with his experience..very exciting for us to be working with FLO, those guys are just really great guys, and are both fun and inspiring to work with!

pyf, yes, that represents a percentage for sure, but if any history of valve stem length is any indication it won't last long. 51 is a pretty recent development in this space and causes it's own issues by being usually long enough for 45mm rims (though not always), yet not long enough for equally common 50mm rims so I won't be surprised if it's different next year.

I like to think of our valve extension as being say 150% the functionality of a normal extension wth 100% being that it effectively makes the valve longer, and give us say 25% for having best in class seal effectiveness which is pre-applied. Then maybe another 25% for the anti-rattle gasket...which will reduce noise even if the gasket isn't exactly in the valve hole as it will damp vibrations making the valve stem less effective at making as much noise. So even in the case of 51mm stems and 60mm rims, we still represent (IMO) ~125% effectiveness of a normal extension in terms of effectiveness and value. Of course different people place different value on different features, and I regularly talk to people on both sides of the issue.

In the particular case of the 51mm stem and 60mm rim, the limitation is a one. Since a general clincher rim tire well is 8-9mm deep, so on a 60mm rim, the distance between the tire well and rim surface is ~51-52mm , so that locates the valve core threads right in the zone where we want the gasket. So since the valve core threads have a major diameter of 5mm and most rim holes are 6.25mm, there just isn't enough physical space to have both a sufficient amount of aluminum AND a gasket.

http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm a fan regardless. One other piece of feedback, the rubber 'anti-rattle' part gets pushed down on the extender pretty badly using the Silca stainless presta head, I suspect a few more attempts and it could easily tear/rip that rubber, any thoughts/suggestions on how to avoid that?

Thanks!
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [ollie3856] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ollie,
You shouldn't have to push your 17-4 on that far, it is fully engaged on both gasket seal surfaces when the chuck is 2mm above the top edge of the gasket, so no need to push on any further.
This is a great piece of feedback and something we'll look further into for future generations..thanks!



http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Macho Grande] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I still use the old school Zipp extenders that you simply screw onto the valve stem, no threads on the end of the extender. Do many of you still use these.

Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman


Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [konaexpress] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't. I could never get a good pressure on them and had issues with leaks.

I switched to Vittoria extenders on removal core tubes and they worked fine. I have a sense the Silca's will work much better.

r
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Macho Grande] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Macho Grande wrote:
I don't. I could never get a good pressure on them and had issues with leaks.

I switched to Vittoria extenders on removal core tubes and they worked fine. I have a sense the Silca's will work much better.

r

I concur. I had the SRAM Valve Extenders and always struggled to inflate my tires. I would be sweating trying to inflate my tires before I even hit the open roads. I switched to a removable core. I will most likely be moving to SILCA once the calculations are determined for my S80's.
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Macho Grande] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have been using the Zipp extenders since 1995 and have never had trouble filling up a tire/tubular or retaining air. I think teflon tape is a big reason why. I guess if it ain't broken don't fix it.

Barry Dmitruk
2017: Florida 70.3 (done); Mont Tremblant 70.3 & Ironman


Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [joshatsilca] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So when will your new floor pump be available? That is what i am really waiting for...
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Macho Grande] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Macho Grande wrote:
I don't. I could never get a good pressure on them and had issues with leaks.

I switched to Vittoria extenders on removal core tubes and they worked fine. I have a sense the Silca's will work much better.

r

I had no issues for years, but had the same issue with my first race this year. Went with the zipp having some thread type stuff at the end and now seems okay
with filling.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [konaexpress] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
konaexpress wrote:
I have been using the Zipp extenders since 1995 and have never had trouble filling up a tire/tubular or retaining air. I think teflon tape is a big reason why. I guess if it ain't broken don't fix it.

Yes, this.
I only have the one wheel that needs an extender, the F (use a disc cover on R, so regular stem back there), and on both my older 404, and current Jet90, I use the plain old straight extender, attached w/ teflon tape, and have had no issues ever with inflation or holding air.


float , hammer , and jog

Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Murphy'sLaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Murphy'sLaw wrote:
konaexpress wrote:
I have been using the Zipp extenders since 1995 and have never had trouble filling up a tire/tubular or retaining air. I think teflon tape is a big reason why. I guess if it ain't broken don't fix it.


Yes, this.
I only have the one wheel that needs an extender, the F (use a disc cover on R, so regular stem back there), and on both my older 404, and current Jet90, I use the plain old straight extender, attached w/ teflon tape, and have had no issues ever with inflation or holding air.

You never have had an issue with a bike pump at the end? I had not for years and this year I could never get them to seal, or my LBS.

.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [Canadian] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Canadian wrote:
GreatScott wrote:
Canadian wrote:
GreatScott wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
51mm tubes have really complicated things as they put the valve threads more or less at the inner edge of rims in the 55-60mm range. 32, 37 and 42mm tubes are by far the most common and we have solutions that will work with any of those on rims at this depth. On the upside, the rubber sleeves are more aero than smooth, they will damp noise even if they don't eliminate it and they look awesome on your wheels, but as you can see in the picture, the flats and threads on the bottom of the extension are in the rim hole where you would want the gasket to be and the threads are about 2mm below that because the valve is just too long.

We are working on a cross-reference guide to help with this, but it has been incredibly difficult to get actual valve stem lengths from everybody as well as tire well depths from the wheel manufacturers..but we will get there.


Ugh. This would have been good to know before placing my order (below).

GreatScott wrote:
joshatsilca wrote:
The very cool side effect of these extensions is that you have to size them correctly, and when you do, you only have as much valve protruding as you need..so there is a very real aero benefit for most people.
J


Hey Josh. What sizes would you recommend for a Flo 60 and a Flo 90, both with a 51mm RVC tube?

I've done the math and just figured it wouldn't hurt to double check before completing my purchase.

Scott


I'm hoping to finish up some testing with our 60 and 90 tomorrow. I'll let you know how that goes.

Take care,


Howdy Chris,

Thanks for chiming in. Just another example of why Flo rocks. Any results from Flo's Myth Buster Lab?

Scott

The only tubes I was able to source locally were the 48mm version. Unfortunately the 45mm Silca extender is a tad bit too long to work with our FLO 60 but the 60mm Silca extender works perfectly with our FLO 90. From my discussions with Josh, a 37mm tube will work perfectly with a 45mm extender and a FLO 60. My sources simply didn't carry that length. I'm chatting with Josh behind the scenes to try and find a better answer. I want to be able to recommend one tube length that works with a specific Silca extender for both our FLO 60 and 90.

Beside the minor fit issue we are dealing with, I have to say I'm really impressed with the product. Wrapping plumbers tape on your extenders isn't the end of the world, but it's a step that shouldn't need to be taken. Josh's design is really effective. After your rubber washer is installed (which is easy to do), you simply screw the extender on. They hold air really well too.

It's one of those products you use where you say... "that's how it was supposed to be done" OR "why didn't anyone else think of this?".

I hope that helps,

I just installed a 34mm extender on the 51mm stem and am reasonably satisfied with the fit on the Flo 60. Not perfect, but serviceable. I'll report back on whether the valve seal improves retention of tire pressure. I was going crazy losing 30psi / 24 hrs previously. Part of that is the latex tube, but I'm hoping for improvement from the valve.

Scott
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the update.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
Quote Reply
Re: SILCA Valve Extenders... [GreatScott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Scott, I assume that the gasket is entirely outside of the rim, but can you post a pic to give me an idea of where.

I can guarantee that the stem sealing will improve, but that might not be the issue with your latex tube..they all bleed air, but some worse than others. For our Roubaix preparations with Cancellara and CSC all those years ago we did bleed-down testing on about 50 tires and rated individual tires in psi lost per hour, I can't remember the numbers exactly, but the range went from roughly 1/2psi per hour to 2 or 3 per hour.. Using a sealant helps, we had great luck with the CafeLatex from my good friends at Effeto Mariposa which makes a nice foam in the tire and reduced all of the tire leakdowns quite a bit.

http://www.SILCA.cc
Check out my podcast, inside stories from more than 20 years of product and tech innovation from inside the Pro Peloton and Pro Triathlon worlds!
http://www.marginalgainspodcast.cc
Quote Reply

Prev Next