WOW, I think there is a thread called Cry Like a Little Bitch somewhere on ST.

You should have posted this there.


Here you go, to make it easy for you to move it.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...=cry%20like;#2276566

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

No kidding this jackass should get a job selling wetsuits or something. :)

Damn, I need to learn how to put that in pink and use those emoticons.

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Pain or damage don't end the world, or despair, or beatings. The world ends when you're dead, until then you're due for more punishment. Stand it like a man. And give some back.

Age Groups are dumb anyway. There are two categories: Male and Female. Each has a winner, podium, and top 10.

Everyone else was just there. If you beat your PB, awesome. If you had a tough day but finished anyway, good for you.

Last year Dr Tommy beat me by just under 1.5hrs at Oliver, and Andriy beat me by a little less at Victoria. I'm fairly certain I never even looked up the AG rankings - just the Overall, and by gender.

Age groups are stupid.

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Quote:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...i?post=489077#489077

and for all that bitchen' how did Steve do in Hawaii that year? I don't remember him taking down the age group.

Actually, I don't see many "retired" Pros taking age groups in Hawaii. Good genes or not, they have the same time restraints as the other AGers. I think most still race because the love the sport, not the "thrill" of winning the AG ranks.

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Support Crew
This information contained herein has been assembled for your assistance and convenience. It is believed to be reliable, however, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. All opinions shown are subject to change without notice.

Let's see...what do get for being pro. Hmm

10 minute lead start
Easier entry in to races
Oh and you can have your bike shoes in the pedals in T1

I don't know why anyone would turn pro. I suppose there is the measly cash for winning.

Perhaps a NASCAR division should be created for all the whiners

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"your horse is too high" - tigerchik

This seems appropriate:

I think you have missed the point entirely, I have prensted the pros and cons of each scenario, I clearly feel strongly on where I think it should go, my point is if the ex pro reflects any other former elite he or she wants genuine competition and they would most likely get that if they raced in a seperate category, if and when the slowed down to a point where the could no compete then they would happily slip back into AG comp.

As we do the saem race a sthme we get our butts kicked by them anyway. Chapman would have most likely won the category of open male anyway and it would have been a better way to do it.

I sincerley doubt that there ar many ex pros or elite AG who would not jump at the chance as thye are in a grey area themselves race pro, get your butt kicked, race AG you kick everybody elses butt

Oh yeah that is exactly what I said, what is it about internet forums where people selectivley take whatever part of post they want and ignore everything else to support their own argument.

It has nothing to do with who trains more it is about ensuring that the sport has something to offer for everybody not just the elite and semi elite. This includes making it more rewarding for the ex pro

You need to take a good look at your priorities. Even if they did outlaw pros in the AG ranks I would bet you'd still bitch about someone who beat the pants off you.

"More money for better gear!"
"Only works 2 days per week!"
"Went to that cool camp!"
"Gets to train all year round!"

Suck it up.

You're either an athlete or you are not. If you are an athlete, you don't complain about getting beaten by a better man. If you are not an athlete, you have no business bitchin' about what the athletes do.

At what point did I say that, it does not matter caus right now I am not good enough to qualify anyway, the point is these guys have a right under the rules to compete as it stands and at no point have I argued that.

What I think is that the addition of the open category would give them more and the AG more. If you gave him the chance would he take it to race OM probably.

Have I taken away from his 8:47 time no, pats on the back to him, it just a phoney AG time in my view. As for step up and be a man about it, at what poitn was this a post about me complaining about Chapmna taking my slot, not until you made it that way. It s not about that.

This is a minority sport and yes we have had a boom phase, keep going with your attitude and we end up with a sport for a very small elite group who complain about the rest of the world not caring about their sport and or the lack of coverage it gets

Oh yeah that is exactly what I said, what is it about internet forums where people selectivley take whatever part of post they want and ignore everything else to support their own argument.

It has nothing to do with who trains more it is about ensuring that the sport has something to offer for everybody not just the elite and semi elite. This includes making it more rewarding for the ex pro

Sorry, now I realize your concern is only for the bored ex-pro.

Gee what a mature and reasoned response, this post was about the pros and cons of an open male female wave for the few select people who fit into this category. Why to make it better for everybody.

We get wonderful responses about bitching like a little girl, from somebody who then adds his coaching business link to his post, awesome marketing there.

Continue to totally ignore the subject of the post and attack me for not being fast enough, please continue to demonstrate your mastery of comprehension and your ability to form a logical argument

Maybe you should cry about this to your mother, I'll bet she'll care.

All the rest of us are worrying about making ourselves into better athletes so we can go out and do our own personal best. At the end of the day, that's all you've got, everything else is just fluff.

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Ignorance is bliss until they take your bliss away.

Alternatively, you could think: wow, this is a guy now working full time and yet able to go 8h47 in an Ironman. That's a great target! So, that's what you can do with talent and motivation? I better start working as hard...

just a thought...

The sacrcasm is dripping, this whole debate or rather complete inability to have one reminds me why I stopped doing this sport the first time to many crankers out there.

Go back to one of my earlier posts, i played a sport at a high level and using a valid comparison siad I can't see what an ex elite gets out of competing against people who can't compete, for most real ex elites the answer is nothing, which is why many of them don't play thier chosen sport again or do something different.

Triathalon seems to bring back a fair number of people into the sport as AG probably as they enjoy the fittness and social aspect, the only point being made was that they might be happier in an open category maybe I'm totally wrong, and if I am it may say more about the genuine elitness of the ex pro in the first place

In sailboat racing, they have separated the participants into 3 categories: amateur (no compensation), pro (paid to participate in races) and "industry" people who earn their livelihood from working as suppliers, for vendors or as coaches. That has been a big help to the sport because it was common practice for people in the latter category technically be an amateur but still have a huge advantage because they get paid to live, work and train in the sport.

You would be wrong as you were wrong about the point of my post in the first place, Better gear is a marginal advantage anyway once you have gootne to a basic level and I like awarding myself 10 dollars spending money for evey guy I pass with a zipp disc or aero helmet.

If you only work 2 days a week, you are either very fortunate or don't make enough cash to fund your training or diet, so that won't matter.

Cool camp would help but not a discriminator, gets to train all year round well lest face it anybody can do that so long as they are willing to use an indoor bike trainer, treadmill and face the elements

So ex-college 1500/5000 guy is ok? Glad I don't have to feel empty about overall podiums in the local races.

Open categories work just fine in big races like Lifetime fitness, but they also offer an incentive. Top 3 get pro cards, and top 5 (i believe) get a free trip to Dallas for the US Open championships. I've done other races which offer prize money for the "open" category but do not require a USAT elite license. If you take any part of that purse, even if not elite, you're still a "pro".

How does this make it more rewarding for the former Pro? Assuming he winning AG prizes, he is beating everyone now. Separating retired Pros into another division does nothing to change his competition, except make it smaller. A lot of AGers can beat former Pros. I know one ;-) Why take them out of the former Pro's equation?

Triathlon has two divisions. Pro-which only means those competing for prize money. It does not imply any "profession". Most are either supported or support themselves with other jobs.

Age group - which covers EVERYONE else not in the "money" division. AG is not the equivalent of amateur. Do we really need MORE divisions than that.

Does it boil down to "fair"? No, its a race. The clock is the only judge of what is fair. Its not about everybody gets a prize. Not everyone can go to Kona.

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Support Crew
This information contained herein has been assembled for your assistance and convenience. It is believed to be reliable, however, its accuracy cannot be guaranteed. All opinions shown are subject to change without notice.

The flak you are getting is probably because most of us would like to compete against EVERYONE in our AG no matter what their background is. Some don't even want AGs. Very few want to exclude people from an AG by making a separate category for fast people.

Hello Khai and All,

Here is a plug for age groups since otherwise old guys like me wouldn't get to Kona.

I have found as I get older I am slowing down. (Hayflicks or tired Mitochrondia?)

Maybe no Pros - just 5 top finishers - male and female - get the money - everybody else gets a pat on the back.

Getting rid of old guys and gals could lower operating expenses since they are on the course longer.

A shorter cutoff of 12 hours would accomplish this and save 5 hours of police, volunteers, and so on.

Eliminating drafting and running the race attendance up to 3000 or 4000 would be more profitable too.

Then again this current business model seems very successful - why tamper with it - unless you could make more money?


Cheers,

Neal

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

A few thoughts:

- Your comparison to soccer is senseless since soccer is a team sport and triathlon is not.

- The ex-pro is not racing against you. He is racing against himself.

- Nothing stopped you from trying to be a professional cyclist or triathlete. This is still a free country. You had every opportunity that he had, so you can't say it's not fair. He just chose to actually do the training to get him where he is.

- In addition, no one said life was fair. Most people learn that in kindergarten.

- You need to find a way to find satisfaction in your racing based on your own ability - not compared to who else shows up. If you beat your PR by over an hour, but finish 10 spots down from where you did a year ago does that mean you didn't have a successful race? I hope not.

- There are already *way* too many classifications when racing. Adding another one is ridiculous just so you can get a star on your forehead when you finish in the top-3.

- Most people who are posting obnoxious things in this thread are just tired of hearing people whine about stuff like this. Just go train and enjoy life. That's what it should be about.

- If obnoxious postings on ST are what's going to stop you from racing, you need to stop reading ST. Seriously. There are more important things to worry about. Most of the obnoxious postings make me laugh. Stop taking them so seriously and relax a bit.

- Most of us think it's pretty cool to race against former pros. You should try to find the fun in that instead of seeing it as a negative.

At what point was it about not achieveing a PB, as for crying to your mother, you are going to level that is so childish its not worth trying to discuss the point which is, would having an open category benefit the sport.

I said yes.

The majority of the rest of you clearly think no, and I accept that, can't see ahy you can't just say you don't agree and lay of the persoanl abuse

utter tosh, elite sports is elite sports look at Beckham playing in MLS, found it to be a joke, his team mates were clueless so he tried to wangle a wya bck to Milan, no satisfaction.

As for the obnoxious responses, the post was not a whine it proposed an alternative, ever quick to jump on a thread most of them sompletelty missed the pint an decided to call me a bitch girl and make it about me.