There is a tooth to gum ratio thing going on that I don't care for.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I also appreciate her making fun of another runner in the start Corral.

With a registered contestant, the race director can go the insurance from the registration to cover it. Not so with some whack job.

Given that banditing is a well known problem, you'd think that so long as the RD/organizer takes reasonable measures to prevent it, most likely measures required by the insurance company, there'd be insurance available to cover claims arising from an injury caused by a bandit slipping through the cracks. I have a hard time believing it's not possible to insure against this. By no mens is this a justification of banditing. But I think people here are exaggerating the potential risk.

She didn't need a tee shirt. After all she's got a closet full of these...http://www.rakuten.com/...arge/235576696.html#

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Are you saying that injuries arising out of or caused by a bandit on the course are typical exclusions from a general liability policy? Or are you saying that races aren't obtaining general liability coverage? If it's the latter, than that to me would be a much bigger concern than potential harm that could be caused by bandits on the course.

Pretty simple. Bandit = no waiver = no defense. Insurance companies require a waiver because it's the only way to get someone to waive their right to sue. There is no "bandit coverage" for this reason.

You willing to risk your assets and/or race co by allowing bandits and not being covered? I wouldn't think so......

So are you saying there is no general liability coverage available? How to races insure against injuries caused to spectators, family members, etc., that haven't signed waivers?

And lack of a waiver does not mean there is no defense.

Who says bandits are being allowed? Reread what I wrote.

You're confusing the issues. Races get general liability coverage to cover its general liability. If a spectator is injured due to an RD;s negligence, it will be covered. However, as a quid pro quo for that coverage, insurance companies will require waivers from each participant. It's not that difficult a concept.

You're right, lack of a waiver oes not mean no defense. But lack of a waiver may mean that the insurance company reserves its rights to cover the injury, and perhaps even pull coverage, as getting a waiver is a condition of the policy.

It's not covering medical claims of the non-registered. It's covering the lawyer and court costs when the non-registered sues.

Ask that of the California triathlon RD and USAT that had to go to court to defend themselves. Situation:
- athlete X registered for the race
- athlete X couldn't race, but picked up his number and handed it to athlete Y
- while on the bike course, a motorist drove onto the course, ignoring a police officer, and hit Y
- when medical claim from Y was denied, Y sued

The plaintiff lost, but it was after discovery and trial - costs that were sunk. That's why RDs have to verify identities during packet pickup and make sure waivers are signed, and there are penalties for anyone who transfers an entry (both giver and receiver) or otherwise bandits a race. We can debate the amount of potential risk, but I think we would all agree it's not 0.

She's running with earphones. Fail.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Come on guys, can't we get back to (or at least start in earnest) making fun of her looks?? And what's with that whole tongue-bite smile thing she's got going on?

"Pretty + Witty" my ass. There must be some good blog titles for her…


Haggard + Dishonest

Weathered + Self-Centered

Ugly + Dipshit


I really expect far more pettiness on this board than a fairly reasoned discussion of the insurance implications of banditing races.

1 vote for this title. Can we start a poll??

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

But there is practically zero harm in a competent driver speeding a little on the highway just like there is practically zero harm in a reasonably experienced athlete banditing a running race.

I see your example, however, the risk is never zero - as I noted and someone else with another example, you never know, what scenario might spin-out after-the-fact. That's why RD's can get close to zero, by following the protocols that they have set for themselves, which is almost always - registered, waivered, people ONLY on the course. As much of this that they can control, they will try and control it.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Uh, I have actually banditted at USMS Nationals at Stanford.
At the time I wasn't old enough to swim Masters and was with about 8 athletes I coached.
I just hung around behind the blocks for heats near my time and jumped on an empty block super last second late before the start.
It can be done.
A couple local ocean swims are put on by a city lifeguard department. RD is my old boss. He doesn't mind bandits much as long as they don't enter the finish chute. His thought is that it's a public ocean and he has to lifeguard them anyways.

Banditting is generally being a dick. Using aid is double so. Medal? Tripledick.

Legal risk and coverage aside, she is taking advantage of all the work it took to put on the race. It is expensive and a lot of work to shut down traffic and provide safety services. It isn't the 1 drink,1 t-shirt or 1 medal that are expensive, it is everything else. It is a huge amount of work. The other racers paid for that and she didn't. I cannot figure out why people think that is OK.

Not crossing the finishing line and not drinking the water doesn't mean you aren't stealing some else's work and services.

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Jen

"In order to keep a true perspective on one's importance, everyone should have a dog that worships him and a cat that will ignore him." - Dereke Bruce

Selfish + Elfish

Jen--I was just going to type something like this. I think you're exactly right.

I tend to agree that the 'risk' is exaggerated. Personally, I see the liability argument as something to make banditing seem worse than it really is. I have a hard time believing the RD could be held liable for an unregistered person. I have an even harder time believing that, if they could be held liable, they couldn't get insurance to hedge against it. But who knows...maybe I'm way off here. The biggest issue I see with it is lost profit from registrations.

I personally wouldn't bandit a race because I want to support the organizations that put the events on, but it doesn't bother me that a minuscule fraction of people do. The vast majority of the races I've participated or volunteered in are on public property and the course (roads) are not completely closed, so I don't know that RD's can really stop it. Not arguing for the banditer in this case (taking food/medals/etc is lame).

I came very close to banditing a 15k last sunday. They had no press until the last week and I would have had to drive 85 km to inscribe. I tried to ask people who live in the area to inscribe me but found no takers.

i'm seriously thinking about banditing IMCOZ. the entry fee is way too high for me, i've done the event the last 3 years and love the venue. i'm also seriously considering doing an unsupported IM because of logistics of IMCOZ banditing and also just I dunno...i wish there was a closer, cheaper option but until the past year IMCOZ was the only game in teh entire country. i think maybe next year I'm going to do Los Cabos...

anyway, i totally get banditing and would do it but maybe not in your country where there are so many other options. also i would not use course support when banditing. but yeah, i could see doing it.

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http://harvestmoon6.blogspot.com
https://www.caringbridge.org/visit/katasmit

I tend to agree that the 'risk' is exaggerated. Personally, I see the liability argument as something to make banditing seem worse than it really is. I have a hard time believing the RD could be held liable for an unregistered person. I have an even harder time believing that, if they could be held liable, they couldn't get insurance to hedge against it.

You missed my post where, a race is being sued, by a woman who was seriously hurt, while training on the course prior to the race!! Yes you read that right!


I agree, some of this is low risk stuff, but with stuff like the above going on, as I've now said several times, you never know what will happen after-the-fact. So within reason try to do as much as you can before hand to make sure your risk is as low as it can be.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Maybe even a tutu, but we can't tell from the selfies

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

What is so hard about believing that? It's a huge risk because you're taking someone who isn't covered on your policy and exposing them to potential harm (which, in turn, exposes you to liability).

Remember - this is the same country who has awarded burglars settlements when they hurt themselves breaking into someone's home.

Even if there is no settlement issued - any profit in the race will be eaten up in costs defending yourself (in most states).

Ummm, i'd be a little more circumspect about announcing your plans to bandit an IM race.

Which reasons by the way are, with all due respect, bullshit. Yes, it's an extreme example, but would you steal a Porsche because, well, they're damn expensive??

Not sure this is a MX/US thing......

What do you mean? Some folks here mentioned the St. Bernard photos.

The "Let's Face it, I Don't Have Much in the Boob Department" Selfie

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin