It is quite shallow, swam there a couple weeks ago, no head scrapes. I was thinking about it first lap though! It is the Penticton Rec Center pool.

So do wetsuits.

I use a pull buoy quite regularly. I am a 1hr IM swimmer and 27:00-29:00 half. Of course that is wetsuit legal. I wet went 32:00 at Eagleman that was non-wetsuit. I did not grow up swimming and did not play water polo. I think I am just a natural swimmer with good feel for the water.

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James - est. as a Triathlete 1983

I long for a non-wetsuit swim here in NZ! Only non wet suit swims seem to be Kinloch and Takapuna elite races...if only the water temperate rules were the same for age groupers.

I guess I'm just coming at it from a swim perspective. At the club I trained with as a kid, the young kids all used fins in training, to assist them in learning how to kick properly ,which subsequently helps with body position.

If a triathlete in a wetsuit is still doing a big scissor kick, then that is still going to affect their body position. It sometimes amazes me how low some people can get in the water even with a wetsuit on, and that is usually a function of them not knowing how to kick or how to hold their legs. I've noticed triathletes often reach for the pullbuoy when they start to get tired, when what they should be doing is focussing on trying to keep a similar body position, whether they are kicking hard or just doing a 2 beat kick.

I agree that tools like pullbuoys and paddles are useful, I guess my point is that people should try to become semi proficient without these tools before relying on them too much.

As a swimmer, I cam remember doing whole sessions doing pull only or kick only, depending on whether my shoulders or my knees were injured.

My n=1

Figured pull bouy was the same as a wetsuit.. get strong arms.. just coast the legs, bam, reasonable swim finish and can make up time on the bike on the run.

Trained about half pull bouy, half freestyle in the pool (and all free in the lake). Training went well, did some 1500y pull sets in 30 minutes, was ready to roll.

Total fail on 2 OLY tris, finished bottom 10%.

Now other crap went wrong on my races. But I do think pull bouys hurt me. I got my stroke "ok" in 3 months, but having no kick did not help.

Now in a masters swim class, lots of 200y kick sets. I think I can do a heck of a lot better this year.

Its at least 1 metre (3.3'). Plenty to flip in, at 6' I can flip in 2' of water. If you hit your head in 1 metre you are not doing it right.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

i have a different opinion on this. I see swimmers as often thinking very highly of themself and there swimming. Reality is, most would not make the cut for the fast lane in the squad. Perhaps the second lane?

there is plenty of high level or very well train pro and age group triathlete that can swim right at the front in open water with the college swimmers. I simply train them in a different way as they are onset adult swimmer and dont have the millions of hours available to become fast ''conventional swimmer' The good news is...my job is to make them fast in a wetsuit in open water.....not in a pool with a speedo. It's a important distinction that is often missed

Pool Buoy is a amazing tools. allow us to get some quality session in times where it would not be possible. Allow me to make them progress quicker. It s not a miracle device...the hard work and meters needs to get done. Anyway, i think the article bring lots of good points and reflection. And for the swimmers that make fun of it, i invited them to join us in a open water session and see for themselves what kind of level we reach with this approach. My door is wide open!

enjoy swimming!

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

This strategy works until you reach a non wetsuit swim. Then all the bitching and moaning begins and the real swimmers start cheering.

Reading comprehension much? That blog (linked in the original post) was the impetus for him posting.

If you're getting abrasions, then you are still kicking while holding the PB. Stop that.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

last time i swam in hawaii... i was in the pro lead group with the pace car right in front of me out of transition....

so much for this strategy not working.......

read the article, it will explain why.

The bitching and moaning is associated to a certain type of individual. Those people dont really last long with me as a coach....triathlete or swimmers.....

i guess perhaps i m just lucky...the triathletes i work with done whine, they simple get the work done.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

not that I'm representative of anything...

But, I used a pull buoy - I think 10 years ago.

Adult onset swimmer. 1st out of the water in my AG 6 out of 8 races last year. And, on one of the races the guy who "beat" me out of the water was by 5 seconds and ended up 27 minutes back at the finish. I just don't see how letting me cheat on body position with a PB makes me a better swimmer. My kick for propulsion is pathetic, but, it does give me a decent body position. Therefore, for kicking, I only "invest" as little as I need for good position.

But, that's just me - and if it works for you, more power to ya.

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I saw this on a white board in a window box at my daughters middle school...
List of what life owes you:
1. __________
2. __________
3. __________

Aside from the blatant appeal to authority logical fallacies, I find your whole pull buoy premise strange since you advocate using bands and paddles which I totally agree with.

It appears that you use a lot of pool toys so it's better to say:

Use bands+paddles+buoys a lot rather than "the pull buoys, use it a lot."

you lost me on your first sentence? perhaps something more simple in english?

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

Stop making these kinds of statements:
http://en.wikipedia.org/...ument_from_authority

not sure i m following you but anyway, this is just a fun reflexion on a article that Brett Sutton wrote. I have work in the past with him and it was always amazing to see him get such spectacular results with poor swimmers quickly.

The motto was: pull buoy is never big enough and you never get too much of it...... we would use it for 50-60% of the workouts total meters.... would allow us to ride more/harder/run...and still get quality swim session after long runs/track workout /bike intervals etc. I do like this approach and my experience with other athletes as show me it can work very well.

and of course, there is many other way to skin a cat....

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

As a lifetime competitive swimmer and sub 52 swim leg swimmer in the ocean, I agree with this approach for new swimmers. Having spent my childhood swimming from point A to point A, a good body position comes naturally regardless of whether I kick or not. (For the record, I am a very weak-ass 2 beat kicker...mainly using it only for balance in the water.) But when I try to help my friends improve, it's soooo hard to explain all the little things that go into an efficient stroke. So if you can get the body position correct for the purpose at hand (open water wet suit swim), that is a solid way to make the gains most age-group triathletes need.

Question for you coach...if you are training athletes for open water ocean swimming, would you use a bigger buoy to account for the additional buoyancy? I always need a few practice swims in the ocean when I wear a wetsuit. (all 5mm neoprene...I think I would be better off with 5 on the chest, and 3 on the legs...but that is exactly inverse of most "tuned" suits for obvious reasons!)

For those of you who struggle with the swim....look at it this way...it has to be fun picking off the swimmers as you go through your day!

There's a guy who trains in our 50m indoor pool with a wetsuit on AND a pull buoy. What's that about?

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´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX

Yawn!
Comments are a bit derisive - "I'm this great coach and if athletes don't like my way then it's the highway" and 'gee, I'm fast so what I say is right '. Woohoo and Full marks to you! Lots of people are fast and could hose you swimming backstroke so please save the 'look at me" for those who are impressed.

BUT, your carrying on aside, I agree with your sentiment that it has a place and can be (more often than not) a great benefit to the triathlete swimmer. Probably less so for the great swimmers - still very useful but for different reasons. Good points you make - though you could support it a little better with more than the ' Oh well, that's what my athletes do and anyone who doesn't can bite me' type rationale.

Good coaches explain why things can help and generally don't try to blow their own horns to prove a point.

I'm in huge agreement with this for triathletes who are going to do wetsuit swims only. If I were still in triathlon I'd probably use a buoy a ton to mimic a wetsuit position. I hadn't tried a wetsuit in over 20 years until a maybe 18 months ago. One of the Huub suits? OMG. It was insane what a blast and it was a loose fitting suit a bit tall for me, but still hilariously awesome. I was literally smiling the entire time playing around with different aspects seeing how it effected my pace. I'd still kick if racing in a wetsuit b/c that's just how I swim, but my regular Speedo body position isn't quite what I get from a newer technical wetsuit and a buoy would get me closer to that. The Huub was so buoyant I intentionally had to adjust my head up a tiny bit to bring my feet down and keep them boiling rather than coming out of the water. Pinching a buoy b/t the thighs makes it easier for me to make a 'uni-leg' and completely shut the kick off, but with no buoy my natural inclination is a soft 6 beat. These new suits are insane!

Plus if it gets a triathlete to the pool to swim more by making it more fun then I'm all for it. Just so they are ready for what is in store for them when a race isn't wetsuit legal....as long as they can deal with that expectation then more power to the buoy!

Lifetime swimmer and sub 52 !!

you don't need much advice on how to get through the first leg.

Bike and run more is where you'll get best bang.

999999/1000000 of us here hate you (in a jealous way)

I don't know about BC or Quebec, but NONE of the swim squads I have ever been a part of have ever eschewed pull buoy work, or made fun of it, and the distance swimmers especially loved using them. I wasn't a distance swimmer, and my primary even wasn't freestyle, so I never used it as much as the distance lane, but we did a ton of work with the buoy and paddles.

We did make fun of "some" triathletes because they were crap swimmers, but generally respected the ones who obviously put in the work. Lisa Bentley swam with us during her xc offseason, and while she was never fast by swimmer standards, she did put in the work and turned out to be a semi-decent triathlete after graduation.

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Yeah but it's a 'coach driven' thing - not swimmer. As you would well know, when training with a squad you do as the coach says. Some like using them lots, some some times, some never. If you ask them, they all think their way is the right way.

And that ladies and gentlemen tells you that there's no right or wrong way!

Individual training - you're the coach! So to pb or not to pb is up to you! I'm a pb fan. My kids hardly use them (but they have them in their bag). They are faster - but I reckon I'm better looking :)

Douchbag much...?
He initially posted the wrong link...

So are all pull buoys created equal or is there a particular brand you'd recommend? I've generally just used what's at the pool but think I'm going to buy one.

My question for Jonnyo is:

Should we use the pull-buoy moving our legs or without moving our legs?

Thanks for the advice.