Its not so much how far back LS is on the swim so much as whether or not he has support as he rides. He's been swimming with the Kienle group now and even if he loses a minute to Kienle, Seb knows that LS coming up, so he might be apt to hold back a few mins to let a group form.

To me this decision is BS.
Arm chairing, but he should focus this year on the swim as he planned when he was clear headed and not emotional like now.

Idk (obviously), but use the emotions put it into the swim as planned, go to Kona as pissed off spectator and use that energy going forward.

*goes back to reading posts on the internet* :)

Well honestly if you listen to his assessment he is doing Kona not on a whim, but because his swim has been there in 2 of the 3 events he's judging. So I actually think he's not saying this because he's getting island fever but because his swim improvements are showing up in races now. Does it mean it'll translate at Kona? Maybe, maybe not, but I don't think he's making an emotional decision.

---

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think if you have Frodo, Amberger, Lange, TO in a front group for the swim or forming close after the swim, those guys working together can keep a gap for a really long time on Kienle and if Sanders is further back, he should just sit on his watts like in Arizona and pace for 8 hours not pace for a 2 hour cannon shot over to Hawi and then come back under powered due to overbiking early. If he can overbike early to catch Kienle, quickly then fine, but if not (and I am sure Erin and many others will tell him the gap to Kienle as soon as he is on the bike), he should just sit on his watts and let the guys up front overbike and destroy themselves.

Agreed, he also wants a piece of Jan. He's worried Jan might retire after this year.

What I never understood was why he wouldn't go. He needs as much experience in Kona as he can get. Even if he swims 8-10 min behind the leaders, he can still get something out of the race. Sure he won't win, but if he has the right attitude he could turn the day into a positive experience regardless of how he swims. He has nothing to lose by going to Kona. It makes zero sense why he wouldn't go.

Oh and I'm sure his sponsors wouldn't exactly be ecstatic about him not going.

---

blog

I thought his rationale for missing Kona this year was because he was focused on 70.3 Worlds and didn't want to make the same mistake last year and head to Kona undertrained.

I haven't listened to the podcast yet - is it a question of either Kona or 70.3 Worlds? Or would he train for Kona but still race Chattanooga with not optimal 70.3 training?

Did you listen to the interview? He is still focusing on the swim and plans to continue to focus on the swim until he can make the first group, which he knows will take years.

The change is that he's going to focus on Kona instead of 70.3 worlds for three reasons. He doesn't have any faith that 70.3 worlds will go any different this year than last (15 guys out biked him last year on his highest power output ever). He's made Sebi's swim group two races in a row. He wants to race Jan.

Personally ( and the jealous canadian in me), I'd rather see him focus on 70.3 worlds and Penticton long course worlds. If he has great days at either of those races it really opens the eyes of a lot of "borderline" triathletes in Canada. Canada loves winners and since Whitfield retired we haven't really had someone at the top of the sport. For his sponsors (most notably Garneau/Freshii, canadian companies) I think they would rather him show up at these events and kick ass. The north american exposure would really help the triathlon community in Canada.

It wasn't a question of either or. He said he was putting more of a focus on Kona and less on 70.3 worlds. He feels he has more of a shot at a fair race at Kona than at 70.3 worlds (his words almost exactly). He also said he might just do ITU LD worlds instead of 70.3 worlds.

I honestly think he could do very well at both 70.3 worlds and Kona. It seems that many think it's one or the other but Jan, Sebi, and Crowie have all proven that it can be done in recent years. And I think Lionel is one of the few athlete's along with those listed previously, that have the ability/talent to do very well at both races with such a short time in between them.

If he want's to focus on 70.3 worlds, great.... but I think he could still peak for that and still do very well at kona.

---

blog

I think after improving on the swim he's realized that he now needs that experience that you're talking about, especially considering that AB will shoot for Kona in the next 2-3 years. He probably needs this Kona experience to beat AB when they face each other.

However at that point you may also have Gomez in the picture so then it will be all up in the air.

I think he places top 5 in Kona this year.

You are seriously saying that after one race (where he was not well) is enough to judge how he competes? afaik we have no info on drafting from either st george or gran canaria where he took home easy victories.
So tell me, how exactly does his racing style remind you of Mark Allen? Because he always goes 100% and either wins or places way back? Because he can hold his own in all three disciplines against the best?
I agree that watching challenge wasn't pretty, but that is hardly enough evidence to decide what type of racer he is.

---

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

WTF kind of backward loser Canadian thinking is this? Be a hero at Long Course worlds and get your butt handed to you at 70.3 Worlds vs potentially winning Kona. Just ask Jordan Rapp if he'd rather win long course worlds or Kona and just ask any Canadian triathlete if they know what long course worlds are or 70.3 Worlds. Almost none know about the former. Some triathletes know about the latter. Every triathlete knows about Kona and that even spills into the general population (almost all my colleagues who are techie ultra geeks can tell you what Kona is). Sorry man, as a Canadian I say, there are only two prizes in this sport that anyone cares about....the first being the prize that Simon Whitfield won, and the second being the one that Peter Reid and Lori Bowden have won. Any other prizes are also ran awards in the big scope of our national sports market.

In listening to the interview, I think it's more of a mental focus. He put everything he had into 70.3 worlds last year. He thought if he biked a certain power and ran a certain time he would be world champion. He did both of those things and got what, 10th? It devastated him and he admits he was depressed for several weeks after and showed up to Kona completely unprepared physically and mentally. His head was not in it.

So now he's putting his mental focus on Kona. I think he still knows he's going to race 70.3 worlds (the dude loves racing), but he's not going to be as mentally invested in the outcome.

Plus he can tailor his training towards Kona where he thinks he has a better shot at a fair race, and will have a shot based on his swim improvements.

I'm glad to hear this news, if you go back to the original thread where he and his coach said he was not going to do Kona, I was quite adamant that it would be a mistake to skip this year. Of course his swim was going to get better, the only question was how much better. We have gotten that answer very early(solid 3rd pack now with Keinle)so there is absolutely no reason to not go for it, at least the swim is not a reason.

It seems like he now can come out with some really great riders in Kona, so he doesn't have to solo up to the group. And despite what you think he should do Dev, he will(and should) ride harder than normal watts to catch the leaders before the 80(probably much sooner if Keinle is working with him) mile mark or so. If there is even much of a group when they get on, then take a very short break and use the next hard part of the course to make the move that always comes to explode that group.

I don't think he minds starting the run with keinle, but would probably like some distance from Frodo or Lange, or even a few other proven uber runners at Kona. This certainly is going to change the tactics and dynamic of the race, I can see certain guys switching some training sessions right now to accommodate some different wattages and their recovery times...

Had I known you guys were going to have this discussion I could have asked Lionel as he showed up at our local little sprint tri. That a cool thing about triathlon.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Looks like we are both kind of right...

from Triathlete;

Instead of worrying about distance between front wheels, Riccitello wanted to use the reflectors to mark the distance between the trailing rider’s front wheel and the leading cyclist’s rear. But 40 feet is slightly longer than 12 meters. Combine that gap with the length of the bike and the distance from front wheel to front wheel—the standard set by the rulebook—is about 13.5 meters. Using the reflectors to designate the draft zone would help athletes understand the legal distance and referees spot an infraction, but it also meant enforcing a substantially longer draft zone than the one every pro agrees to at the beginning of the year.
Read more at http://www.triathlete.com/...#2O26d8O1ipIpS57x.99

No matter the distance it is really nice and consistent at least!

Brent

---

DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Potts will not be in the mix past Hawi

Monty the Monday morning QB in me says, "Lionel, get out of the swim, overbike a bit if you're within 90 second of Kienle and try to team up with him and ride your watts while teaming with him. If Kienle is further up the road, I think he should just ride his watts. It's just too far to bridge up to the Frodo group too quickly. As Josh Amberger said in the other thread, no one has to do anything to other athletes, they will all impale themselves and self detonate (or not). Many of those guys, just knowing that Lionel and Sebi are coming are going to overbike and blow up anyway.

You guys seriously think Sanders will even make the Keinle swim pack? Non-wetsuit & that kona current / 'side wave-chop' (or rather slop) on the return to the pier - it's a killer to a weak swimmer.
Be super impressed if he does however.

If I was Lionel I would specifically prepare the 70.3 worlds (with maybe some longer rides and runs every now and then). He can then give everything to win that race.

Then go to Kona with no pressure and gain experience. Try to not sorry about anyone else but just do your own race. I bet he could place very high with that approach. Kona is still a game of patience. Most guys that play tactical games will blow up at the end. Such a strong guy like Lionel can easily chase down a lot from the first group with intelligent pacing.
Lange got third with a 10 minute penalty. Lionel don't lose 10minutes on the swim, so third is theoretically in reach.

I know that Sanders wants the win and not getting third. And for that he needed to take risks. But why not execute a strong (though not great) Kona race and save the going all in for next year. When he has more experience. And also a good placing that takes oft pressure.

---

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

I wonder if the Detroit river is clean enough for open water training? If Lionel could put in regular sessions with some guys or gals faster then him in that sort of current it would certainly transfer to a Kona swim a bit better than pure pool swimming. He needs a small group to work with in this sort of environment to really hone his OWS skills so that he'll have a chance to hold some fast enough feet for the first 500m at Kona.

---

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I very much agree with this.

a) Sanders needs to come out of the water with Keinle. He knows this and with the 20+ weeks to Kona, I predict Sanders's swim improving a tad more and Keinle's (compared to the Challenge championship race) remaining about the same. This is a viable outcome and I won't be surprised to see it happen, and it would completely change the dynamics of in October. I mean, it would be like Stadler coming out of the water with his equal on the bike, or Hell on wheels coming out with Jurgen...

b) but the odds are in the favor of Sanders coming out behind Keinle, in which case your strategy would be incredibly wise to implement. I mean, think how the field separates every year on the way back on the bike, and then even more so after the first 10k of the run. If Sanders could take the Lasse Viren '72 5,000/10,000 sit-and-outlast-approach you suggest, I think that could mean Sanders making his way up to the front of the run, catching Keinle, then Lange, then Hoffman and then maybe Frodo.

---

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram

I would take that part in bold a step further and say that at T2 you don't really "know" who is in contention. There could be ~10 guys from which the podium could sort itself out. Just past 5K into the run around the Alii turnaround, you kind of know the podium. Last year we knew that Frodo and Kienle had legs, and we also knew that things were wrong with Sanders (the second half of the bike told us that, but on the run back from the Alii turnaround, you could tell Sanders was done). You also knew Lange was on fire and could move into the top 5.

I don't think Lionel makes any magic swim improvements in 20 weeks, but he can take his swim refinements, and try to apply them to improved race tactics. I THINK his 50m and 100m all out sprint and then "calm down and sit in at almost sprint speed" is more important. I think if he can improve a 1000m swim where 50m is a super hard sprint and 50m is nearly at the sprint speed but recovery, and improve that 1000m time by improving the alternate 50m legs, then this for him will be more important than any typical swimmer set. As Monty said elsewhere, pro pack swim racing is like a bike crit if you are hanging on the back of the pack. You have to make the pack and get into the middle and not the end and then each time someone attacks, you have to rev it up and stay attached and then settle in. Also for him drafting a hip on the opposite side of the waves will help....when the guy he is drafting surges, he still has half a body length to fall into the draft of the feet. If he is drafting on the feet, he will instantly become unattached. I don't know if he is practicing this stuff or if his coach is working all that skill. Race day is not frequent enough, but he needs a group of fast swimmers too make him hurt in these sessions trying to hang on.....he should take up Jonnyo on his offer and train some open water tactics for a week in Penticton. Jonnyo will sort him out. if he goes to ITU Long Course worlds + Kona, then he can build that swim camp in with Jonnyo.

You guys seriously think Sanders will even make the Keinle swim pack? Non-wetsuit & that kona current / 'side wave-chop' (or rather slop) on the return to the pier - it's a killer to a weak swimmer. //

First of all Lionel is not a weak swimmer, he is strong as hell for a guy with his stroke. And right "now" he is getting out with Keinle, so even the non wetsuit swim of Kona he should be close if not still there. At least close enough to close down to him very quickly, and then they can do their two man catch up to the lead group.


And there are no killer currents or chop in Kona, quite the opposite. It is one of the easiest swims you will ever do. No waves, almost always no wind, and a straight line with markers every 150yds or so on relatively flat water. And you have a turnaround marker the size of a small house, and of course 100's of friends to pull you along and keep you on course. And on top of all that the start is an in water one, the kind that does not favor great swimmers and allows followers to easily slot in.


He will be fine there, I expect he will be within 3 minutes of the lead group(not the off the front group if there is one). And in the past years the off the front guys really just wait for the lead group guys to catch up, it seems to be inevitable that there be a 20+ person group at Kona at some point now. Guys like Frodo are not going to drill the pace on the bike because he can win it on the run. The drillers are the guys that have to catch up, then they don't have that much road left to do too much damage.