Funny you mention that tire in particular. When our shop was reordering we found it cheaper online than the distributor price, and we receive their highest volume discount. Their excuse, 'grey markets', tires leave the dock somehow and end up at unauthorized dealers.

The real deal with LBS is customer service, that's all. If you only base purchasing decisions on price, I can see why you would be anti-LBS. But if you hit up a place that knows how to delivery great customer service, you don't mind paying a premium for items since you know you are getting overall value.

Not in my country. The distributors won't touch stuff bought off the internet either.

Tires and other consumables are what grinds me.

I spend a lot at my LBS, but when I have to spend 2x the money on something that gets replaced every 6 to 9 months, I can't do that. I love the shop I go to, the people are great the shop lay out is great, the atmosphere is great, my wife picked it as the shop she wanted to do business with, they really hit it out of the park for that location.

However, the distribution network for bike parts is totally f&*%ed. Shit sells online for 20% below their cost, they have told me "I can't match that, that is a really good deal." So I buy something online and need help with it, here I come with some bagels and expecting to pay full price for services and whatever it takes to get my goodies working.

I bough ultegra road pedals today on CC for $94 shipped to my door. No way a brick and mortar can compare to what these volume online retailers do, it is a shame. Somethings I gladly pay retail on, others I need some kind of break on.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

It's not just the stuff bought from the internet. What if you moved to a new location and need warranty service, and the manufacturer does not deal with consumer directly? I had such an experience recently when I need to get some replacement small parts (cable stoppers for internal routing) for my Santa Cruz. I called my local Santa Cruz dealer, I was told over to call Santa Cruz directly because a) I didn't buy the bike there, b) they have to order the parts anyway and it will be painfully slow from their distributor, and c) the thing I wanted to buy is way too small and too cheap for them to go through the hassle. Interesting enough, I got pretty much the same response from Competitive Cyclist when I called them. I ended up calling Santa Cruz directly and they actually sent the parts to me free of charge (as warranty replacement). No wonder people are being turned off by LBS (and in this case, a big strike against Competitive Cyclist which I used to like a lot).

What prevents a shop from buying from Wiggle, or some other legitimate place, that sells things for far less than their normal distribution channels?

Are they contractually committed to only buy from QBP, or some other distributor?

A bike shop won't buy from Wiggle because they don't want to give Wiggle any more profit.

If I had a business with an uncertain future, I'd rather make $10 than $0.

That's exactly why LBSs are dying.

I'm pretty sure there are contractual issues with doing what you suggest.

I'm almost positive it would be breach of contract and liability issues.

ETA: the key for an LBS to make it is not to get caught up in the "sale". That's when I think stores get away from their core and only intererested in money. Stored need to market the experience that the customer will have w the shop. If that's done right, *most* people will pay for it. They are willing to pay for the experience of choosing between 3 bikes and the pro/cons of each choice and have someone to bounce ideas off of. That purchasing experience is what consumers want/hope/expect.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Yes, they are required to buy from distributors like the Q. Shimano has its own network, and they struggle with global pricing controls. SO the Q dumped shimano, which is why the Q started the iSSi brand pedals. Say you owned rijndael handlebar company, you would contract with QBP to be the US distributor for your handlebars, and any LBS could sell them as long as they buy form QBP. You would then have a different distributor for Europe. In shimano's case they have different pricing structures in Europe and the US and that is why you see such pricing disparities.

The things that kill the LBS I think are, QBP and piss poor pricing controls from companies like Shimano and Continental.

Smaller brands have strong pricing control using MAPs (minimum advertised price) and the like. Kickr is really firm on their MAP, that is why you don't see sale pricing on them often. Same with Garmin and Stages. Retailers can only sell those brands at a discount when the manufacturer lets them.

SRAM has really stepped up their price control system as well.


QBP has different levels for retailers based on total sales, so some shops can get parts way faster assuming they are in stock at the Q. Living in the same metro as QBP headquarters, if I call the shop right away in the morning, there is a chance I can get that part the same day.

Slowman could do a better job of describing the retailer, manufacturer, distributor relationship.

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Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes

LBS cost on those pedals is 76$ (or less for bigger stores), problem is they want to make 100$ profit on stupid pedal replacement...

^^ This is a lot of the issue. To add on, Shimano hasn't done a great job with their manufacturing projections lately, they are making way too much stuff. So they dump it in bulk to online distributors who then sell it extremely cheap. I went to build a road bike in November of 2015 and a full Ultra 6800 setup with crank and all was going for $550 online. My LBS couldn't even come close to touching that price. Same thing with Continental Tires. QBP requires them to not buy from some other retailer then resale. QBP sells the tire to the LBS for $50-55 depending on supply then the LBS sells it for $70-75. Planet Cycle online gets them in bulk and sells them for $32. That is too big a swing for most consumers to justify so even if you love your LBS, you are going to buy online.
(This all came from the mechanic at my LBS who was not a fan of Shimano and their business practices at all. He says Shimano doesn't give a shit about the LBS channel and their pricing shows it. SRAM on the other hand has price controls and gives the LBS a chance to compete.)

That said the fate of the LBS really comes down to the people. If the staff is knowledgable, friendly and cares enough, it makes it worth paying the LBS premium. My LBS opened in 2012, first time I walked in in 2013 the head mechanic greeted me personally, asked all about me, invited me to group rides, etc. I went in for a stem and ended up with a long term LBS relationship, the stem was $15, many thousands have been spent there since. The other key was how good the mechanic was. The shop I bought from previously had three locations, was the premier LBS and I had spent over $6k in there over a few years. Took my bike in for a tune, mechanic was a dipshit, when I came back a week later nothing was fixed. Really turned me off. At my current LBS the mechanic cared more about my bike than I did and I am an anal SOB. I don't trust anyone to work on my cars, but my bike always went to the shop because he cared even more than I did and was better at fixing things than I was. Unfortunately he has moved on.

As to the OP example. That guy is a moron even if Santa Cruz doesn't compensate them for warranty work. Getting someone in the door is the difficult part, once there you don't eff it up by making stupid comments. Free warranty work on a bike bought online is the way to earn a customer for life, telling them to pound sand because they bought online is a way to turn someone off for life. Do something right by a customer and they will be happy, do something great and they may tell a friend or two, do something stupid and they will post about it on FB for 1,000's to see. My LBS has that figured out, if you buy a bike online and take it in, they say thanks for letting us work on it for you, not screw you for buying online.

"Personally, over the years, in a wide variety of bike shops I've been exposed to some of the worst sales experiences I've ever experienced - from the completely benign - like not even saying "hello" or acknowledging my presence, to out-right bald-faced lying about things and being grossly wrong on others!"

This. Such a hit-and-miss population, young-ish, dedicated cyclists. Not a natural fit for sales and service. Great folks for a beer or advice or a riding group. Not the best for face to face advice or negotiating.

I have also been exposed to some of the best sales experiences -- discounts, counseling about training and equipment, free wrenching -- in my LBS. It probably evens out in the end, but the bad days are maddening.

Andrew Moss

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"At the end he was staggering into parked cars and accusing his support-van driver of trying to poison him." A description of John Dunbar in the 1st Hawaii Iron Man

What about treating high demand tires and tubes as lost leaders?

Bring customers in the door and then sell them on good service? It happens in a lot of industries.

Bike shops aren't supposed to discount tires.

Really? Performance Bike had GP4K last week for around $40 a tire on sale.

The distributors allow them to be discounted a few times a year.

Yes.

Plus "shop bros" who were dismissive of women and cyclists not like them. I've had plenty of bad experiences in bike shops over the years (decades). And some good or great experiences. Sucky shops from both a technical and customer service experience have been around for decades.

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http://www.jt10000.com/

i have had a similar experience.
Local bike shop cant/wont match a price a competitor has (45min drive away) for a tarmac thats $300 cheaper. I get the tarmac from other shop. After a while i decide to swap out cranks to shimano and a few other minor mech things. Give it to local bike shop, they say no worries they can do it. They take the bike. Then i get a text message a day later from the owner saying he has changed his mind, doesnt believe thats how a local bike shop should be treated (despite the fact i have bought another bike from them and other miscellaneous stuff) and that not only will he not do the work, i should 'rethink using his shop' again as he and I have apparently different views on what customer service is and its worth. So not only can i not return to his shop for anything, i am not welcome on his shop rides.
I dug a little deeper and found he has done this to several people- wont work on non-store bought bikes IF he knows you shaped him up to competitors. He has burnt a lot of bridges in my area to the point where he is now laying off good staff because he is losing money. Karma really.

My recent experience with a local shop. First, living in a metro area and there are 3 shops within 5 miles of each other that must hurt alone even without online competition. There were 4 shops, but one moved a little further north and is still within 15 miles of the others. The shop that moved is much like the one the OP described. I have heard the owner and the sales people take that approach with customers while I waited to be served. Somewhat rude in tone and certainly berating the customer for buying a bike elsewhere and then bringing it to their shop for service. I am surprised they are still in business the way they talk to people, but they do have some diehard followers. They have always been nice to me, but I think that I fall into their category of a more serious cyclist. Plus, they carry several popular bike brands that kind of forces sales if you want one of those brands.

Back to my recent experience.
I made an impulse buy from a popular online retailer for the SRAM etap wifli. I got it from them because they were the first to list the wifli group. Because of a costly mistake that I made during fine tuning the system and following SRAM's policy for the customer to never contact them directly and to go to the LBS for service, I reluctantly went to one of the shops. How I was dreading this and my opening statement was, "I did not buy this from you, but with SRAM's policy I am bringing this component to see if you can service the part." His response was a simple, "Sure we can help you. Just contact the retailer first and see if it is okay if you can do this through us." I contacted the online retailer and got a standard legal sounding email that summarized as you have damaged this component and we cannot help you. We only sell the components and are unable to service the components. I understand their position and that was the risk I made buying this group online. It was stupid in hindsight because the SRAM components are the same price everywhere and I should have bought it locally with just a little extra sales tax.

This local shop has done everything for me and never even talked about fees or anything. They took pictures of the component and spent time talking with SRAM and arranging to send the component back to SRAM for a swap. They have called me along the way to keep me updated in the process. When the component comes in (it is taking longer because it is going through a crash warranty department) I will take my bike in and let them finish out the build. The guys at this shop have really solidified my commitment to their shop. Much of what they have done has been really impressive being that they are a busy shop and have a lot of paying customers to take time to help a guy that bought something elsewhere and they never made me feel like a jerk for doing it. They treated me as if I bought it from them.

it's surprising he's still in business. sounds like he's on the way out. I know of at least one bike shop that actually advertises their service for bike assembly from box.

That's a tough setup there but my question for you is this.

Why don't you go to the bike shop that you bought the bike from? Is it because of the 1 hour drive?

ETA: who's it karma for you? Or the bike shop? Do you now have to drive 90 mins to get your bike tuned up? If so, yikes. So if there are other closer shops yes he was stupid. Well he was stupid in decision making but if you are now stuck w 90 min drive for any bike stuff, that's not much fun either. Certainly not likely worth $300 in bike savings.

But that's not to let LBS owner off, your a repeat customer to him. It sounds like he simply did to you what you did to him.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

A bike shop should be happy to service ANY bike that comes through the door regardless of where it was bought. That's how shops make their best money.

The local tri shop to me sells a limited number of brands and frankly I'm not interested in any of their bikes. I do like the people that work there and their service is great. I tend to do most of my bike wrenching but I have been known to dick up a thing or two over time and bring it to their shop to correct my wrongs or fix something that I don't feel like doing myself due to time or whatever. I'm happy to do that and they're happy to take my money.

There's a big brand LBS with several shops around town with one down the road from the tri shop and they're just as accommodating to fixing bikes that aren't "their bikes."

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One