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Former/current SCY/M sprinters
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Got any of your fav main sets you want to share? Going through a bit of a change with pool availability coaching that is putting me on my own more and more. Figured it's time I get some different material in my head anyway.

Note I'm not a superhuman freak ready to do 10k sessions like some of you Frankenbeasts. I like about 12-1500 of warm up/500 cool down and maybe 1500 of swimming/500 kicking at most main set. I focus on the 50/100 fly and free.

Thanks for any of your sadistic sets! I'm also not afraid of kicking either I love it so feel free to punish my legs too please.
Last edited by: tigerpaws: Oct 18, 14 7:19
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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tigerpaws wrote:
Got any of your fav main sets you want to share? Going through a bit of a change with pool availability coaching that is putting me on my own more and more. Figured it's time I get some different material in my head anyway.

Note I'm not a superhuman freak ready to do 10k sessions like some of you Frankenbeasts. I like about 12-1500 of warm up/500 cool down and maybe 1500 of swimming/500 kicking at most main set. I focus on the 50/100 fly and free.

Thanks for any of your sadistic sets! I'm also not afraid of kicking either I love it so feel free to punish my legs too please.

If you're doing 12-1500 of warmup, you're wasting 700-1000 of valuable workout. You're saying that you are doing over 50% of your yardage in warmups and cooldown.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know how fast you are, but for a 1500 main set that caters to a sprint flier and freestyler could be;
7

X
50 fly on a minute
50 dolphin on 2 minutes
50 free on a minute
50 flutter on 2 minutes

These would be my intervals, as they would give me just about 100% rest for the 50's swim and a little more for the kicks. So enough to recover just enough to be able to go again at about 100 to 200 pace. You could also dog the kicks a bit if you start to get too gassed, and just use them as more recovery. I have done this set a few times and it goes by pretty fast. I usually do 10X though, but you can adjust for whatever main set yardage you need to get in..

And for me i do a descending set, but i'm more of a distance guy, do the 200 fly and 400 IM. I imagine sprinters will go a bit quicker in the beginning and try and hold 100 pace throughout. Or i guess you could do it like i do and descend down to 50 pace too, that would be a good sprinter set.
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
tigerpaws wrote:
Got any of your fav main sets you want to share? Going through a bit of a change with pool availability coaching that is putting me on my own more and more. Figured it's time I get some different material in my head anyway.

Note I'm not a superhuman freak ready to do 10k sessions like some of you Frankenbeasts. I like about 12-1500 of warm up/500 cool down and maybe 1500 of swimming/500 kicking at most main set. I focus on the 50/100 fly and free.

Thanks for any of your sadistic sets! I'm also not afraid of kicking either I love it so feel free to punish my legs too please.


If you're doing 12-1500 of warmup, you're wasting 700-1000 of valuable workout. You're saying that you are doing over 50% of your yardage in warmups and cooldown.

John

x2 The best set advice anyone can give you is to tailor down your warm-up. No need to warm up that much. My max warm-up is 600m. If you are running and doing 400-800m repeats on the track, wouldn't go out and run 4-6 miles to warm up first. Doing so is just taking away valuable energy and time you could be putting into a larger focused main set, which is the whole purpose of the workout. Hence the term "Main set."

"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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Devlin wrote:
tigerpaws wrote:
Got any of your fav main sets you want to share? Going through a bit of a change with pool availability coaching that is putting me on my own more and more. Figured it's time I get some different material in my head anyway.

Note I'm not a superhuman freak ready to do 10k sessions like some of you Frankenbeasts. I like about 12-1500 of warm up/500 cool down and maybe 1500 of swimming/500 kicking at most main set. I focus on the 50/100 fly and free.

Thanks for any of your sadistic sets! I'm also not afraid of kicking either I love it so feel free to punish my legs too please.


If you're doing 12-1500 of warmup, you're wasting 700-1000 of valuable workout. You're saying that you are doing over 50% of your yardage in warmups and cooldown.

John

Meh doesn't work out that way for me with a sprint focus. When I was swimming at a lower effort level with threshold pacing I didn't have to do hardly any warm up, maybe 500 and I was ready for that kind of effort quite soon. For me to hit the gas hard balls out I need a ton to get warm. Mind you that 1500 has a warm up set of 25's and 50's in it too, but I don't consider it main set work. And the effort level my coach hands down is almost all barf for the 50/100. Consequently we don't heap on tons of yardage. It's worked really well for me thus far.
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [ScottWrigleyFit] [ In reply to ]
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ScottWrigleyFit wrote:
Devlin wrote:
tigerpaws wrote:
Got any of your fav main sets you want to share? Going through a bit of a change with pool availability coaching that is putting me on my own more and more. Figured it's time I get some different material in my head anyway.

Note I'm not a superhuman freak ready to do 10k sessions like some of you Frankenbeasts. I like about 12-1500 of warm up/500 cool down and maybe 1500 of swimming/500 kicking at most main set. I focus on the 50/100 fly and free.

Thanks for any of your sadistic sets! I'm also not afraid of kicking either I love it so feel free to punish my legs too please.


If you're doing 12-1500 of warmup, you're wasting 700-1000 of valuable workout. You're saying that you are doing over 50% of your yardage in warmups and cooldown.

John


x2 The best set advice anyone can give you is to tailor down your warm-up. No need to warm up that much. My max warm-up is 600m. If you are running and doing 400-800m repeats on the track, wouldn't go out and run 4-6 miles to warm up first. Doing so is just taking away valuable energy and time you could be putting into a larger focused main set, which is the whole purpose of the workout. Hence the term "Main set."

I really appreciate the advice, but I just don't have very good sprint workouts with warm ups shorter than that. It was fine when I was doing threshold longer stuff, but it takes me forever to get warm for sprint level work. 1000 skip and a mix of some 25's and 50's get my motor warmed up really well.
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
I don't know how fast you are, but for a 1500 main set that caters to a sprint flier and freestyler could be;
7

X
50 fly on a minute
50 dolphin on 2 minutes
50 free on a minute
50 flutter on 2 minutes

These would be my intervals, as they would give me just about 100% rest for the 50's swim and a little more for the kicks. So enough to recover just enough to be able to go again at about 100 to 200 pace. You could also dog the kicks a bit if you start to get too gassed, and just use them as more recovery. I have done this set a few times and it goes by pretty fast. I usually do 10X though, but you can adjust for whatever main set yardage you need to get in..

And for me i do a descending set, but i'm more of a distance guy, do the 200 fly and 400 IM. I imagine sprinters will go a bit quicker in the beginning and try and hold 100 pace throughout. Or i guess you could do it like i do and descend down to 50 pace too, that would be a good sprinter set.


Thanks monty that sounds a bit like a set we do now, but it's back streamline kick and hard. This is a nice variant of that though my dolphin is a constant struggle bus work in progress face down, on back it's great, but unfortunately I don't really get to use it that way! And as far as 'fast' not at all in the swim world kind of lame really. But I enjoy the journey and the process a lot swimming of all sports became my fav it was my least fav during my triathlon career.
Last edited by: tigerpaws: Oct 18, 14 8:32
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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Montys set is a nice base to work from. Honestly, there are only so many things you can do yo work on 50's, you need to swim them fast, so any repeats longer than 50 isn't getting you much.

I would also take that basic set, but break it down further, eg for the 50's, one day just sprint the middle 25, or the first 12.5 and last 12.5, or other variations thereof.

I also prefer to stay away from full stroke 50's fly. Technique breaks down too much, fly is a stroke that I feel had to be swum at race pace all the time. Not just race effort, but actual pace, that necessitates keeping the intervals short. I like to do lots of one arm fly, but rarely do I swim more than a 25 full stroke in practice.

Big caveat here, I'm not a 50 swimmer. I'm terrible at 50's, but the 100 and 200 I typically know my way around.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a real ex swimmer bit have had some success as an adult learner. The masters club I swim at now never does any sprint workouts but I learned at longhorn masters and we did "fast Fridays" that were really tough and I think really helped my development. I think like Monty said 1:1 work rest is About ideal following a long warmup. A few idea 15 x 100 @2:30 best average. 4 x 4 x 100 IMO. 10 x 100 fast/100 ez @ 5 min. Def some sprint kicking. For fly also probably some fast swimming w fins. I wish I was still doing sprint sets...did a "fast" 100 scy around 1:04 a few months ago. Not great.

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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [duffman] [ In reply to ]
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hmm tried to type this on the subway and lost the signal...well anyway just wanted to add maybe check out Ande Rasmussen's blog. He posts all his workouts. One of the top guys in the world in M50-54 for fly/IM in particular. You could try to follow some of his workouts.

http://forums.usms.org/blog.php?3156-Ande-s-Swimming-Blog

__________________________

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Last edited by: duffman: Oct 18, 14 9:30
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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tigerpaws wrote:
I really appreciate the advice, but I just don't have very good sprint workouts with warm ups shorter than that. It was fine when I was doing threshold longer stuff, but it takes me forever to get warm for sprint level work. 1000 skip and a mix of some 25's and 50's get my motor warmed up really well.

Honestly, you will get more out of your workouts, if you do something along the lines of:
4x100 SKIP
2x100 kick, IM order
5x100 descend each 25, short rest
8x50 on x time, negative split.
{Insert brutalizing main set here}

Or variations on that theme. If it is really taking you 1500 to get warm for sprint work, you're not structuring something right.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a sprinter and fall solidly in the camp of adult onset learners but from time to time I like a sprinter's set. This one does not originate with me but I use it from time to time and really like it.

WU
5 x 50 Descending EZ to Steady
5 x 200 alternate FS & Pull (PB, Paddles optional)
MS
4 x 100 @2:30 Send
#1 as 25 Fast/75 builddown to 60%
#2 as 35 Fast/75 builddown to 60%
#3 as 50 Fast/75 builddown to 60%
#4 as 100 FAST for Time
4 x 75 @2:15 Send
#1 as EZ
#2 as 25 Fast/50 builddown to 60%
#3 as 50 Fast/25 builddown to 60%
#4 as 75 FAST for Time
4 x 50 @1:45 Send
#1 as EZ
#2 as 8 Strokes Fast & builddown to 60%
#3 as 25 Fast/25 builddown to 60%
#4 as 50 FAST for Time
4 x 25 @1:00 Send
#1 as EZ
#2 as 6 Strokes Fast & builddown to 60%
#3 as 10 Strkes Fast & builddown to 60%
#4 as 25 FAST for Time
CD
5 x 50 EZ
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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My swim today really had a lot of power and speed-work included so please feel free to be inspired:

WU:
200 free + 4x50 freestyle kick
200 back + 4x50 backstroke kick
200 drill + 4x50 main stroke kick

800 mix of drills, sprint, sculling etc.

Main set:
4x(100 freestyle RP1500 (1500 free pace) @ 1.40 + 100 freestyle RP400 @1.40
200 easy @ 4.00
2x(3x25 RP200 @ 0.30 + 2x50 RP 200 @ 1.00 + 1x75 RP200 @ 1.30 + 200 easy @ 4.00)

4x(3x25 all-out sprint with fins @ 0.40 + 125 easy @ 2.30)


Cool down: 7x100 desc. 1-7

total: 5400m
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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greg and jensentri

Thanks those look great! I see some familiarity in there, but enough variation to keep things fresh. Appreciate.
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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In my opinion, your warm up is about spot on to a little lean. And probably on the lean side for a sprint focus. Triathletes tend to think that it is all about the bottom line yardage and how big they can get that number of yards on their training peaks account. So warm up is just a waste of time.

What is more important is getting in quality sets when you have limited amount of time in the pool. You want to be as warmed up as possible and ready to go from the first 25 of the main set. You don't want to skip warm up to spend the first 1/3 of the main set warming up all for a bigger yardage number at the end of your workout. That's a waste of valuable training time.

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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [SnappingT] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Snapp I appreciate your input. My coach and I worked this w/u out over about a year with little changes. He even thinks it might be lean.....I just go when my body says 'I'm ready now'. Nothing says it's set in stone. Nothing worse to me than entering a main set not ready....THAT is a waste to *me*.

Also, if you happen to have any twists you think I might like to try in that w/u set I'd love to hear them. We found out ~ 1000 of SKIP gets all the rust and kinks out. I typically stretch my lats out on the side of the pool after that. Once I feel like I can get a baby bit of burn going with the w/u set that's when I raise my hand and say let's go. It's more a feel thing than a number, when I feel ready I go.
Last edited by: tigerpaws: Oct 18, 14 11:33
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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You could always do this one! http://www.floswimming.org/...Set-Auburn-Sprinters

But one set I actually do like is a 4 sets of 8x25s. 1-2 minutes between sets.
Set 1: Swim. Odds casually fast with perfect technique @ :45, evens all out @ 1:00
Set 2: Swim with fins. Same as above, with strong breakouts and overkicking
Set 3: Same with big paddles, no buoy.
Set 4: Swim, no toys.

More of a mid-distance set, yet still works upper end speed, is the standard 40x50s. Add paddles and it's a good strength set. Adjust the number of reps or distances if you're pressed for time or are doing fly.
16x50s @ :45, every 4th fast
12x50s @ :50, every 3rd fast
8x50s @ :55, every 2nd fast
4x50s @ 1:00 all fast
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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Sprint sets:
20 x 50s (25-30 rest)
5 x:
25 hard/25 easy
25 easy/hard
50 easy
50 hard

Fły
10 x 100 (35-45 seconds rest)
2 x
25 fly hard/75 free easy
50 fly hard/50 free easy
75 fly hard/25 fly easy
100 fly hard
100 free easy
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [pdraegs] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks everyone these are some fun looking workouts I'm going to print out. Similar to a lot of sets I have done this year, but just enough different to make it fresh! If anyone has some fun twists on kicking I'd be up for that too. I do all mine streamlined with a snorkel, but don't now how that would change up anything.
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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Back when I was sprint training it would look something like this: 1500-1800 warmup some easy some pretty fast. But most easy.

5-8 minute stretch / really it was to get ready to start the hurting.

8 x 12.5m dolphin kicks at 100 percent with 37.5 active recovery. On maybe 2:00

2 50s at 100 percent - ideally from the blocks with active recovery.

Some hard 25s kick and dolphin kick.

Long warm down at moderate pace. Not easy pace.
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
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ajthomas wrote:
Back when I was sprint training it would look something like this: 1500-1800 warmup some easy some pretty fast. But most easy.

5-8 minute stretch / really it was to get ready to start the hurting.

8 x 12.5m dolphin kicks at 100 percent with 37.5 active recovery. On maybe 2:00

2 50s at 100 percent - ideally from the blocks with active recovery.

Some hard 25s kick and dolphin kick.

Long warm down at moderate pace. Not easy pace.

Thanks aj. I kind of take that lat stretch to get my mind right too.....get ready for the Pain Cave! Did you find you needed less w/u when you went to threshold type workouts? I used to be able to do 5-6 and merge into the zone pretty easily. But to hit sprint level efforts I need right at 1500 so my engine is hot. Can't hurry it either no matter how my coach and I sliced it up it always worked out to about 1500.
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I hate 1 arm. Fins for tempo work suit my stroke better anyways.
For 100 Fly prep lots of 25's at race pace.

Sets of 8-12 @ 30 with 50 easy in between. I am for 14-15 per 25 on those and under 14 on long rest stuff.

___________________________________________
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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
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[quote Devlin


If you're doing 12-1500 of warmup, you're wasting 700-1000 of valuable workout. You're saying that you are doing over 50% of your yardage in warmups and cooldown.

John[/quote]
That is not the way it works for sprinting. my experience, 1500m is even on the short side of things. It does take awhile to get the body ready for quality work. On the other hand, I m a big fan of cutting the warm up short with doing long aerobic sessions....that, you can get away with little or not warm up at all.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
Devlin wrote:



If you're doing 12-1500 of warmup, you're wasting 700-1000 of valuable workout. You're saying that you are doing over 50% of your yardage in warmups and cooldown.

John


That is not the way it works for sprinting. my experience, 1500m is even on the short side of things. It does take awhile to get the body ready for quality work. On the other hand, I m a big fan of cutting the warm up short with doing long aerobic sessions....that, you can get away with little or not warm up at all.


I will thank you kindly for NOT using that kind of profanity in my presence. Long aerobic sessions. What the heck is the world coming to?!
Last edited by: tigerpaws: Oct 18, 14 14:52
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Re: Former/current SCY/M sprinters [tigerpaws] [ In reply to ]
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For sure. In fact the hard kicking is in a way the final piece to get the engine hot. So you don't swap the order of the sets. The main event is the 50s. If you do 4 you didn't go hard enough.
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