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Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
Lance was offered the same opportunity and declined it.

That doesn't matter to me. If you cooperate you get X, but if you don't you get Y is inherently unjust. It increases the motivation to lie, exaggerate or down play your own guilt. You can only justify different treatment if your inherent view is that catching one particular individual is more important than another.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
 
TravisT wrote:
for you it's really all about LA and not the big picture. All these suspensions do is demonstrate that it's perfectly ok to use banned substances that would normally result in at least a 2 year ban but if you are willing to turn on a bigger fish then its all good.

I disagree because it's not all about LA; it's about stopping doping. This isn't the first nor is it the last time the USADA will likely use reduced sentences to incite cooperation. Telling the truth, providing info on doping practies; tell me how you get riders to be involved without offering them something that makes it more advantageous to tell the truth than it does to keep Omerta.
 
I am getting... [ In reply to ]
 
...the "told you sooooooo" from every direction.

I 'was' a die-hard Lance (Cycling/Triathlon) fan.

Bonfire at my house this Friday Night. Bring your 'LA" Cofidis, USPS, Astana, & RadioShack jersey's. They are all going in the fire. My LA posters; 7 of them, they are my fire-starters. I got plenty of fire wood and an old bed frame. The books, the photo's, the carbon white USPS frame?...in the fire.

I am keeping my livestrong bracelet and my livestrong clothing. Lance or not, livestrong is something special to me and many other people.

FYI: I will no longer check LA's or Juan Pelota's Twitter.

PS: I am keeping my Trek Bikes. I paid for them damn't.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
Why do you hate game theory?
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
ajthomas wrote:
Francois wrote:
Lance was offered the same opportunity and declined it.


That doesn't matter to me. If you cooperate you get X, but if you don't you get Y is inherently unjust. It increases the motivation to lie, exaggerate or down play your own guilt. You can only justify different treatment if your inherent view is that catching one particular individual is more important than another.

I disagree. If they keep quiet, they keep their dignity, their jobs, their untarnished opportunity for post cycling income. Without reduced sentences for cooperation, what can you possibly provide that gives someone a reason to tell the truth in the face of what they stand to lose?
 
Re: I am getting... [Tri or Die] [ In reply to ]
 
Anyone know if Slowman is okay?

Just wondering the extent of this injuries from falling from his high horse?
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [Jeff Solomon] [ In reply to ]
 
George will still come out smelling like roses. If he wanted to compete he had to dope. It's what they will all say and it's the truth.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
 
Re: I am getting... [ddave] [ In reply to ]
 
What is up for debate here?

Lance doped. Let's move on.

Basically every American cyclist that is any good said Lance doped.

Most people don't even care anymore.
 
Re: USADA/Lance Armstrong File Official Thread [mattreg3] [ In reply to ]
 
Dam, sounds like they are making him up to be like some cartel dude.


sometimes
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [Jeff Solomon] [ In reply to ]
 
Jeff Solomon wrote:
The other side is that up until now, George Hincapie was a beloved cyclist who could do no wrong.

Now, he's an admitted doper who was forced to publicly admit that he did cheat and that he did willingly agree to talk about others doping.

If USADA punishes George like they are punishing LA, then what motivation does he have to come clean and speak about his experience? If George loses everything, he just refuses to talk and becomes an ally of LA and he never agrees to tell his story.

How do you think George feels this morning? His image has always been one of squeaky clean good guy who always helped Lance win. Now, he's an admitted doper who was willing to tell USADA everything he knew, including about LA.

I imagine it's not a good day to be any of those guys. Do you think George is lying?

If George didn't dope, why would he publicly admit to it?

Hincapie's reputation is built on being a nice guy, a hard worker, and his longevity in the sport. Squeaky clean has nothing to do with it. He does not have that great of results. The confession won't change much. He is still a nice guy and a hard worker who raced for twenty years.

Hincapie will fare much better than Leipheimer.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [pick6] [ In reply to ]
 
Ben no one is arguing that it isn't an effective or even correct strategy given the desired outcome. My original point still stands that those weak suspensions only serve to provide credence to LA's claims of a witch hunt in the public eye and for him that is the only thing that matters.

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Re: I am getting... [Tri or Die] [ In reply to ]
 
Tri or Die wrote:
...the "told you sooooooo" from every direction.

I 'was' a die-hard Lance (Cycling/Triathlon) fan.

Bonfire at my house this Friday Night. Bring your 'LA" Cofidis, USPS, Astana, & RadioShack jersey's. They are all going in the fire. My LA posters; 7 of them, they are my fire-starters. I got plenty of fire wood and an old bed frame. The books, the photo's, the carbon white USPS frame?...in the fire.

I am keeping my livestrong bracelet and my livestrong clothing. Lance or not, livestrong is something special to me and many other people.

FYI: I will no longer check LA's or Juan Pelota's Twitter.

PS: I am keeping my Trek Bikes. I paid for them damn't.

what about all the Hincapie-made team kits?
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
You do realize this is the way the criminal justice system works, right?
 
Re: I am getting... [echappist] [ In reply to ]
 
echappist wrote:
Tri or Die wrote:
...the "told you sooooooo" from every direction.

I 'was' a die-hard Lance (Cycling/Triathlon) fan.

Bonfire at my house this Friday Night. Bring your 'LA" Cofidis, USPS, Astana, & RadioShack jersey's. They are all going in the fire. My LA posters; 7 of them, they are my fire-starters. I got plenty of fire wood and an old bed frame. The books, the photo's, the carbon white USPS frame?...in the fire.

I am keeping my livestrong bracelet and my livestrong clothing. Lance or not, livestrong is something special to me and many other people.

FYI: I will no longer check LA's or Juan Pelota's Twitter.

PS: I am keeping my Trek Bikes. I paid for them damn't.


what about all the Hincapie-made team kits?

...bring those also. Though, I do not own any of the later.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
 
TravisT wrote:
Ben no one is arguing that it isn't an effective or even correct strategy given the desired outcome. My original point still stands that those weak suspensions only serve to provide credence to LA's claims of a witch hunt in the public eye and for him that is the only thing that matters.


if the goal was to stop doping then going after what happened 10 years ago when EVERYONE doped is a waste of time and money. And to say well if you speak up we will give you a 6 month suspension but we will ban LA for life and strip him of titles is consistent with witch hunt.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Francois wrote:
Why do you hate game theory?

Where is the risk dominant equlibri in this equation? They were already "caught."
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
 
BLeP wrote:
George will still come out smelling like roses. If he wanted to compete he had to dope. It's what they will all say and it's the truth.

He's already stated it. His confession states that he stopped in 2006 (what a coincidence), and has been actively working to try to stem it since.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [Goosedog] [ In reply to ]
 
From the cycling news article:


All actively race but ended their seasons in September. Any ban may be backdated meaning if a suspension of six months is ratified then each rider could return to racing by the time of Paris-Nice, next Spring.


LOL, as I've said all along, the way they used the suspensions in order to basically* bust Lance is a laugher to me. They got sworn admitted confessions yet didnt immediately suspend riders, and all this under the guise of "cleaning up the sport". That just sits wrong.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
Actually, no, they weren't. But being forced to testify to a grand jury changes things quite a bit.

I'd encourage you to read Axelrod's work on the Evolution of cooperation (1984 I think).
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [ajthomas] [ In reply to ]
 
ajthomas wrote:
Francois wrote:
Lance was offered the same opportunity and declined it.

That doesn't matter to me. If you cooperate you get X, but if you don't you get Y is inherently unjust. It increases the motivation to lie, exaggerate or down play your own guilt. You can only justify different treatment if your inherent view is that catching one particular individual is more important than another.

I agree. Well said.

I guess Big George fit his karma by never winning PR. It all makes sense now.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [Ahillock] [ In reply to ]
 
Some of you have zero shame.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [TriGirrrrl] [ In reply to ]
 
TriGirrrrl wrote:
TravisT wrote:
Ben no one is arguing that it isn't an effective or even correct strategy given the desired outcome. My original point still stands that those weak suspensions only serve to provide credence to LA's claims of a witch hunt in the public eye and for him that is the only thing that matters.



if the goal was to stop doping then going after what happened 10 years ago when EVERYONE doped is a waste of time and money. And to say well if you speak up we will give you a 6 month suspension but we will ban LA for life and strip him of titles is consistent with witch hunt.

So your suggestion is what then? If the goal is to make cycling a clean sport is it best to turn a blind eye to past dopers, sweep their cheating under the rug, and continue to perch them atop a pedestal that elicits such accolades as "best of all time"? How can the sport send a message that it's not acceptable to cheat if cheaters dominate the record books? I'm genuinely interested to know.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
 
TravisT wrote:
My original point still stands that those weak suspensions only serve to provide credence to LA's claims of a witch hunt in the public eye and for him that is the only thing that matters.

I can see this point. And I don't disagree he'll try to spin it that way; but guys who have never tested positive are willing to admit they doped and take a sanction when they didn't have to do any of that. That's going to sway a lot of people in the long run. It's not that the sanctions were short, it's that they took anything at all.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
 
Devlin wrote:


His confession states that he stopped in 2006

I have trouble believing this part. Dan, am I allowed to say that? Probably not.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
 
Re: USADA/Lance Armstrong File Official Thread [mattreg3] [ In reply to ]
 
Michael Barry's statement.

http://www.cbc.ca/...mstrong.html?cmp=rss
 

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