what's a good delta between /500m split for the rowing erg and the ski erg? I'm at a gym right now (sue me, I cross train because I'm not triathloning at the moment), and we're doing 30 minute tests on machines, right now I'm somewhere around ~ 15"/500m faster on the rower than the ski erg.

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@adamwfurlong

Good question - I've pondered this since I got my skierg back in Dec 2014. It really depends on your background. I was a rower in my teens/twenties so the delta was huge at first (~20 sec per 500M), but now its much closer. I think the skierg is more like 10-13 sec per 500M slower than the rower.

Dev,
Resurrecting an old thread you started. Curious, did you even get the Ski Erg? Would love any feedback....essentially I am nursing a torn meniscus and looking for good workouts to supplement the traditional swim/bike/run? Thanks

I never got one, but I ended up getting a Concept2 rowing machine. Now that you revived this thread, you got me thinking of a ski erg as I JUST started skate skiing again after a 5 year hiatus (I actually skate skied 6 days this week).

Do you find the Concept 2 Rower is a better workout? I mostly likely cannot row yet as the knee bend is too deep but something to think about.

Reviving this thread as I have no pool access like the rest of you. I have my concept2 rowing machine for upper body fitness but wondering maybe about getting a ski erg for standing swim workouts (free and butterfly)

Anyone use them for swimming workouts (standing). My thought is that you get close to swimming and engage the core more and get your cardio way higher than a vasa swim erg that only uses arms and lats

I use one at my gym. I sit on a chair facing away from the machine. I convert the meters given to actual effort by taking 1/2 the distance and saving as yards. Comes close to my swim times

If you're getting an upper body workout from erging you're doing it wrong. It's majority legs and to a much lesser extent core/upper body

I know, but you are assuming that I am getting most of the exercise from my arms which I certainly am not. I am getting plenty of legs and core from the rowing erg which is most of it, but its not like there is zero upper body as you have to connect the power from legs and through core to upper body. In any case have you used the ski erg?

No offense intended, I can't remember your history with the erg...such a common misconception and thing people actually manage to do so just checking.

Re: the ski erg, love it! Such a versatile piece of equipment and you can get a killer workout. Sit/stand. Single/double pole. 1-leg it and so on...It's been integral in maintaining continuity during my off-season ski training and I think has reaped major benefits for my swim too. Double poling is a killer workout

Would there also be a means to change the ski pole handles to swim paddles ?

I am a huge fan of the ski erg although I used it for nordic ski training every fall, not specifically for swimming. One day I got cocky and decided to do a full hour of double poling work, alternating legs and mimic-ing the skate movement (I can ski outside for more than an hour, so this cant be a bad idea, right?). Set a new record at my gym too, according to the Erg computer.

Almost had to crawl from the barcalounger to bed that evening and from the bed to coffemaker in the morning. Suffice to say, this is not highly recommended unless you are a world cup ski pro....

Best core workouts ever, highly aerobic, great for the shoulders. If you are a glutton for ski-season prep and not too tall, try it on a bosu ball or other balance toy, and on one leg. If I combine with balance toys, I dont get bored (failing to focus and pay attention always ends badly)

I've used roller boards, weights on pulleys, rubber bands, etc and nothing comes close.

My opinion, benefit is not just core. Lots of upper body and legs. I think the repeated use of arms at lower intensity has to be terrific for overall shoulder / pecs development for endurance and i have to expect there is aerobic efficiency training when using arms, like swimming (any experts here?)

I'd be interested in learning how others adapt it to swim training. Vasa isnt in my future but if it can be used for swim training, my own ski erg might be - new gym doesnt have one and I miss it.

I am back to XC skiing now, but I would say now my primary sport is being an Individual Medley Swimmer first (even though I do it bad, but I am getting better), butterfly swimmer next, triathlete third, skier 4th. Previously I would say I was triathlete first, skier second, runner 3rd, cyclist 4th and only swam because it was part of triathlon. So this machine intrigues me more than a vasa erg. I don't think the Vasa Erg is that great for overall fitnese because the wattage is so low that you can for arms only, and when I tried the vasa erg, I found it does not really relate as well to full body Individual Medley swimming and fly which is a full on power+endurance event and as an overall body conditioning tool.

At $1200 CAD (inclusive of tax) though, its not cheap.

I think we need to convince someone that has one to lay it flat on the floor and experiment with using it with a bench or ideally a Halo swim bench....

No I think using it vertically standing actually simulates swimming better, because in swimming the feet are the anchor in the water and we connect to them through our core to the arms and hands. The Vasa erg takes out all the core engagement (which is fine for wetsuit). But if you have to race no wetsuit or pool swim racing, then my hypothesis the standing vertical position with connection from arms through core down to feet may actually be pretty good. Minimally its going to be a way higher aerobic (wattage) workload.

Ok... can't wait for a video....

After wedging my ski pole into a crack in the road and having the worst crash of my rollerski life, I decided it was cheaper to buy a ski Erg than replace my shoulder. Amazon/Concept was offering some sort of layaway thing, so mine was paid out interest free over several months. I, too, have to add resistance bands and get pretty animated to really simulate xc skiing.

I’m not laying my ski Erg on the floor for you. I’m not sure if it’s the exact same wheel & components as their rowers, so I don’t know if there’s anything inside that would get dislodged if it was horizontal?

However, I just did a quick test of the fly & free on my ski Erg just for you Dev! Yes, it is possible to (sort of) simulate those strokes. Since you are aware of how to properly use your body for those strokes, you may have better luck at getting out of it what you want. But it was mostly arms, shoulders, and a bit of the back muscles that were engaged for the “test”. There’s no core “tone” or everything-else-that’s-engaged-just-to-keep-you-afloat on the ski Erg. I guess same goes for Vasa?

The free stroke was just kinda like swimming like a tugboat, no rotation. Just focusing on high elbows and strong pull. The fly may be where you’d benefit the most, as you can slow down the stroke and isolate and build the shoulder/ upper back muscles. But again, you know better than most there’s more to the fly than just those muscle groups.

Honestly, it’s a costly piece of equipment to try to “make do” during what is currently a temporary situation. When the pools open back up, would you use the Erg or go swim? They hold value for resale, but you’ll still sell it for less than you bought it.

Great feedback. I would use it for core and overall conditioning as a ski tool also so part of the interest is as a tool for general health. I have a concept2 rowing erg that is wonderful too and I will never likely row a stroke on water, but as a conditioning tool it is priceless!!! I believe the only reason I was able to get back to cycling and running was due to the concept2 rowing erg that put my body over the hump that I could do those sports again.

Dev, we are 18 months into ski erg ownership and enjoying it. In the fall and winter, it is a cornerstone of our ski fitness. Between work and family, I am on snow about 1-3 times per week.

The erg is an important supplement. How important? Well, the Birkie is the only event I am getting better at in middle age. And I do not accumulate a lot of kilometers, compared to most of my peers.

We use TR workouts mostly. Our double pole FTP seems to be about 70% of cycling FTP, but it took weeks to learn how generate those watts. We mostly live at level 1 on the resistance. I use level 2 around 200 watts and level 3 around 250 watts.

With two adult users in the house, averaging 100 sessions per year each, total 200 sessions per year, yeah I think it has been worth it.

More to your point: How applicable is it to swimming? In the spring and summer, I get in the water maybe 10-15 times total. I wish I was swimming more, but it just does not happen. Starting last year, I added the erg as a supplement about 1-2x per week.

Apparently it is working. I broke my collar bone last March, re-started easy swimming in late May, re-started fairly aggressive erging in June. In our two small local triathlons, I was leader and near leader out of the water.

I can't explain why very well, but single pole sessions seem to have the best crossover. I think I use my "arms" more, ie lats and tris, and focus on core "tension." In double pole sessions, I think I create power with "legs" and core "flexion." (I am an ER doc, but I have no patience for exercise physiology.)

The erg is no substitute for swimming technique, from my perspective. But the nature of the resistance feels right. And it stresses the appropriate muscles, ie arms gain purchase and core transmits force. During single pole sessions, I seem to be at 50% of cycling FTP.

The only obvious downsides for me, thus far, have been elbow stress and a crick in my neck. I have to be aware of elbow angles to avoid pain and I need to do a neck roll every couple of minutes.

Dev, did you get one? I know Concept 2 is out of most of the rowers and bike ergs but it still shows the Ski Erg in stock. They are temporarily stopping production to slow the spread of Covid-19 but are shipping whatever stock they have left. I can't answer your question about how it relates to swimming but it is a versatile piece of equipment. If you want to avoid injuries from roller skiing and work on your skating technique you can wall mount the ski erg and put a slide board in front of it. You can simulate V2 and V1 skating technique without the perils of rolling on the asphalt. I've done this recently and will let you know how it transfers to the snow once Mount Bachelor opens up again next year.

You have to use a different technique to be optimised for swimming. There is no substitute for swimming but no pools available for me and its snowing as I type.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I did not get one yet. I was on skis 8 days ago and did a 36km swim and figured I had 14 days of ski left and then the next day they closed the national park where the ski trails are because all the hikers showed up and did not physically distance themselves.

So for now my workouts are workout number 1 is running, and evening workout is bike roller + rowing erg + lat pulldowns + quad extensions. I will probably get some stretch chords. Still thinking about the ski erg for swimming more than anything (mainly work butterfly style pull).

RealAB did you get one?

It's coming. Ordered it from Rogue & they were behind on getting orders out the door. It should be here Wednesday or Thursday.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Now that you have yours, can you post a review and what type of workouts you and your kids are doing. What type of wattages are you generating (trying to assess the cardio side relative to my rowing erg....on rowing I am around 20W lower than biking for same perceived exertion).

Did you install swim paddles and are you doing mainly butterfly stroke or free?

Question for those who have the Concept 2 Ski erg with the floor extension: I found the measurements online but What’s the overall footprint when accounting for movement with the pulleys potential while seated and backwards ... and sweat radius? I’m trying to figure out where to place it. Backlog is currently 8 weeks, so I have a little time to figure out, but I am excited to add this to my workout mix!!