Just stirring the pot a bit, but what about M-Dot tattoos?

Those are the worst... how dare they? Put in all that time training and think they are something special to put a tattoo on them.

Man... after these posts I am just shaking... shaking in my shoes because two years ago I loaned out my Ironman swiss army tool thing to somebody in need. I mean I was boasting... I should had let that guy wait for the next rider to come by. I know better next time.

hey, I am not bashing on memorializing your achievement in some way, I am in a live and let live camp. To each his own, wear what you want do what you want its your body. I do have to say the M-Dot tattoo specifically meaning the logo its self as a form of materialization is a bit strange to me, not the tattoo aspect, for that I say do whatever you want but simply the fact that in the end the M-Dot is a company logo no different then the Gatorade G or Nike swoosh.
But again I say to each his own, who am I to bash on someone else taste.

wow... you didn't catch my sarcasm. I was working with you not against you.

I see them the same way I would a huge football fan with an NFL tattoo.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

I have spotted the mythical creature in the wild. Walking to the car after a popular local sprint tri this year a couple came past me. Both were sporting the Ironman backpacks and sweatshirts despite it being 85 degrees. To complete the ensemble, they also had matching calf M-dot tattoos. He was also decked out in an Ironman visor and shorts. She had on an Ironman cap.They shot a scornful look our way as another "softcore" tri person and myself were discussing the weird vibe coming from the hardcore tri people around us.

Don't worry, they were either:

A) trying to figure out how to harvest the fun gene from you and your fellow competitors

B) feigning scorn at the smashfest you laid down, but secretly wondering how you did it

Either way they want you, primal style.

---

Swim. Overbike. Walk.

It might be human nature for some, but these people are being deceptive. It's one thing to perhaps understate or exaggerate something, but you are misleading someone when you give the impression something is difficult when it's easy.. Anyone that asks me about IM, I tell them it's not that hard and you don't have to be particularly fit to do one. I'm embarrassed by the narcissism and egotism, prevalent in this sport, something that has been exacerbated by social media such as Facebook. I understand there are people with disabilities or people that have overcome great hardship to complete an IM, they have my utmost respect, it's the rest of the muppets that do a bit of half-arsed training and then run around declaring how legendary they are for completing an IM.

I think the comparison only holds true if they played in the NFL.

Or if they play pick up football on weekends.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

Touche :)

Dude, I got your back, but you may not want to log in for a while unless you have thin skin.l When I said the same thing, with a slightly less aggressive tone, I was called everything from a douchebag to an elitist. I was even attacked just because I was a lawyer.As I mentioned above, a lot of people here on ST fall into that "ironman is a lifestyle" crap. This seems especially true for the frequent posters. This means when you suggest ironman is not special, they feel you are attacking their lifestyle. Of course, IM is just a microcosm of our society. The prevalence of the "look at me" stickers on our cars (full disclosure, I even had MDOT sticker on my old car. Left them it when I bought my new car) celebrating such incredible accomplishments as a half marathon or a century ride. You know...a decent training day. So...good luck with making friends in the forum. Just know, a lot more probably agree with you than you thinkn.

It's not the difficulty level you are choosing to ascribe to completing an Ironman that is the issue here. It's the fact you're trying to rate it at all on behalf of others.

Do you really tell people that an Ironman "isn't that hard"?
What does that statement mean?
It's not hard compared to what?
Are you talking about the training, the event or achieving a certain standard?
What IS that hard?

You're talking about very subjective material as though it's black and white and you know the answer. It's not and you don't.

Compared to the vast majority of endurance sports events Ironman is "hard" in so far as it requires a large total energy expenditure and if untrained it will most likely hurt, a lot, for an extended period of time. That doesn't mean most reasonably fit people couldn't complete one. It does mean they will need to train if they intend to reduce the likelihood of suffering and injury on the day. Maintaining a consistent and effective training plan to prepare to do an Ironman well is surely "hard" if you're not already an athlete. If you don't prepare I think finishing is a hell of an achievement albeit a somewhat foolish one IMO.

So again, regarding my queries above. If you don't think Ironman is hard, what IS hard? Here's a list of some endurance sport events. Feel free to rate them all by hardness. However you rate them it will miss the point. What matters is who they are, how they live, why they're doing it, how they train, how they perform on the day and how they feel. What doesn't matter is how hard you think any of these events are.....

• 5k
• 10k
• Sprint Triathlon
• Half marathon
• 100km cycle
• 5km swim
• Olympic triathlon
• 160km cycle
• Marathon
• Ironman 70.3
• Ironman
• English Channel Swim
• Iditarod
• Ultra-Trail du Mont-Blanc
• Double Ultratriathlon
• Triple Ultratriatlon
• ...
• ...
• ...
• Triple Deca Ultratriathlon

At what point do you think it gets "hard" or is this just a silly meaningless question?

Perhaps my syntax is sloppy. I should not be saying it is not "hard." Perhaps it is. I guess I mean, it is not remarkable. Because the mere act of finishing one is not. And keep in mind, my point has always been about "finishing." Racing a 5k can be a remarkable accomplishment. Walking a marathon for the average healthy person, is not.

Pretty meaningless question. Everyone has their own challenges and constraints, that could make any event on that list the hardest for them. Personally, a 5k/10k are the most painful and/or hardest events on that list. I'm much more impressed by a 15 minute 5k time than I am by a 15x IM finisher. Of course, the longer events are challenging due to the mental stamina needed, so I'm not knocking those either.

Iditarod is in a class of its own.

---

-Andrew

In the sense that almost any able bodied person can choose to train for an Ironman and complete, yes it's not "that hard". Anyone can do it.

The fat guy on the couch is going to say "no way" because in that state of course it is impossible. Nobody is going to be able to complete an Ironman off the couch. However it is true that simple completion is possible for any able bodied person (and some non-able-bodied people). 17 hours is a long time. I am not at all saying we should lower that time. Just that the time limits set by the sport are such that anyone can do this with appropriate training. Appropriate training doesn't even need to be all that ridiculous in terms of a time sink. Other than going out regularly for a swim, a bike and a run almost every day of the week, and some longer stuff on the weekends, it really is not that great a burden on your time to train for basic completion.

Now if you are talking about going under 12 hours? 11? 10? That will require hard training.

Why are there nothing but endurance events on this list? No high standards for a 100, high jump, broad jump, 2:10 marathon, steeplechase, benchpress, etc? That is what the people are saying. To "finish" one of these events on your list does not require outstanding or elite athletic ability. It does require an outstanding commitment to training and fitness. Well, some are saying it does not require elite fitness either. I would argue with that. Now to podium is a different story.

I have never understood the "tough mentally" argument either. Compared to other sports what makes endurance sports harder mentally other than the duration? There is no opponent blocking your path to success. They might be ahead of you, but they cannot do a single thing to impede your progress. You control your whole race. You can take breaks whenever you feel like it. There is no "400lb gorilla you are fighting." Not like a real boxing match where you are getting throttled and are just trying to survive to the next break or time out. Or the other team has just went on a run and now you are down by 20 or a couple of touchdowns and no matter what you try, nothing is working.

People always want to laugh at the obstacle runs. Take some of those obstacles, make them a little more difficult, sprinkle them around the endurance events, make them a no completion/out of the event and you will prevent a lot of competitors from finishing the race. I've seen it happen too many times. Without help, many people cannot make it over a marine hurdle or an 8ft wall. They can't even jump high enough to grab the top of the wall, particularly after 10 miles of running or 30 miles on the bike. They can't can't climb a rope and ring the bell.(I can't do that one. Put that out there and I would never get past it.) Start putting stuff out there that require some varied athletic ability and see how many people finish those.

Listen to youself, "anyone can do this with appropriate training"... so not anyone can do this... anyone with appropriate training.
Now, "...a swim, a bike and a run almost every day of the week, and some longer stuff on the weekends." ... this is not normal for 99.999% of the population. Is it due-able... ya... but a stretch to do the training for most, just like I could win a Nobel Prize... I just need to put in the time... in other words that level of commitment is ridiculous for most. And that is my point... I put in time and effort to complete this thing, I don't need some shmuck trying to degrade it because they feel threatened by it. This is my hobby, other people have wood making hobbies... do I insult them. Do you?

It is a silly meaningless question. Any race is as hard as you want to make it. People that think 5ks are easy are not running 5ks right.

Dude watch your own condescension. I didn't say it wasn't a big accomplishment. I just said that it wasn't "that hard". There is a difference. I am pointing out that anyone (with some exceptions for physical limitations) is capable of doing it. There is a commitment to training even at a minimal level, but it is a commitment anyone can make and anyone can accomplish. That doesn't mean everyone will want to, most people think it is stupid. To those of us that don't, it is important.

It is also not "that hard" to get yourself a bachelor's degree. You simply have to go to school for 4 years. That doesn't mean the school work is not hard at times, and it requires a big commitment to get it done, but in the end the actual process of getting a degree is not that hard. Same with Ironman. Anyone who is willing to put in a reasonable amount of work can finish it. Now, someone who has no idea what that really means telling you this is an idiot.

I am not trying to degrade your accomplishments at all. I, too, work my ass off for ironman races but I am also racing them (as opposed to completing) so my perspective is perhaps skewed. I still enjoy the "pre-midnight" show at an IM finish line even though I am long ago cleaned up, changed and fed by that point.

I've done two IM and they were "that hard" for me.

Completed Ironman... other people's condescending remarks

When you step outside the relatively small endurance sports community, and into the general population, it's not uncommon to encounter a general incredulity about what you/we do. Keep in mind when most average people are asked what is the #1 challenge in their day to day lives they say they don't have enough time for things. Most say this about fitness and physical activity - even in the face of deteriorating health, due to inactivity, most will say, "I don't have time for that"

So when you match that up with the dropping of the fact that you just did an Ironman, the average joe & jane, is incredulous, that you would have 5, 10 15 or more hours/week to devote to training for something like that! For some depending on their mood or state of mind, they may even be a bit hostile and angry, that a peer of theirs, can somehow manage to find the time and energy in the week to do that.

Note, I'm not agreeing with those folks, just getting a bit inside their brain.

---

---

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

They should be. I know that kinda contradicts my post right above.

I agree with you.
That is why I compared IM to people with other hobbies. They put in the time to do their thing... I praised them. I put in the time to do mine... I get ridiculed.

Would the people ridiculing you over IM also ridicule a numismatist? I would assume they would for spending so much time fussing over "stupid coins". Some people have nothing better to do than to irritate others. Some people genuinely think that only THEIR way of life/daily routine is the appropriate one. Best you can do is ignore them.

I tend not to bring up racing or IM unless I am hanging with other people that do it. But if someone brings it up, I have never had anyone tell me the things you have heard. It does seem weird for anyone to say that about anyone's hobby.