You're kidding, right?



Pidcock was 30 seconds back of the last rider in the field when he got to the pits in this race. He was *so* far back that my client thought he was getting lapped when Pidcock came by. There are no tactically irrelevant passes in that situation. Also, fwiw, unless you were completely out to lunch there was no way you didn't know Pidcock was the one coming through... the chants of "TOM,TOM,TOM" were deafening, and impossible to miss. My guy said he knew Tom was coming "for ages" before he got there. This, just to disabuse any notions that people might have gotten from the ill informed English language TV coverage.


Same race. And (ironically, given this conversation) Mason didn't lean on him, he leaned in on Mason. And lost. Same way Wout came in to block pass Ronhaar and lost. And Wout probably doesn't lose that battle if he really puts the shoulder in like Pidcock did later in the race.

Pidcock passed almost 100 riders in this race. Folks love the idea of this, but they really seem to have an aversion to seeing how that sausage gets made.

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No, not really. There is no section of top level CX races that don't have camera coverage, and the Eurosport replay crew *loves* to show NASCAR contact on replay, even 40-50 places back. It's good entertainment. Maybe the guys fighting trying not to be lapped by Mathieu or FVE all bump each other a lot more than the fast guys, I guess.



For Pidcock it was. He was never going to get within 2 minutes of Mathieu. He was just out there burning off some anger. It's not like he was going for the points to try to make the front row at Worlds....he's not racing Worlds. For him 25th place is nice...he passed like over 70 people, which is simply amazing. But 25th is irrelevant for him. Might as well be 100th.

Quote:

Mason didn't lean on him, he leaned in on Mason

Tough to tell, but I thought Mason got his front wheel caught in a bit of rut that took him into Pidcock's line, and Pidcock was just trying to protect himself. Seems like Pidcock was a bit too far back for initiating contact to make sense. At that speed going into a turn you want to be nearly bars-equal if you're going to lean on someone. Initiating contact from behind is almost always a losing battle, and Pidcock isn't dumb. But probably no one knows for sure other than Mason and Pidcock.

Given that there were only 99 starters AND he finished in 25th, I'd say he passed 74 riders. FWIW, easily 50 of those 74 shouldn't have been in the race to begin with.

Right. So, tell us just how many other times you have seen Ville Merlov onscreen out of the 6 Kerstperiode races he has done so far?




25th is worth 35 UCI points in a World Cup. That's more points than Pidcock scored in his 2nd place at the Herentals X2O. It's midway between 3rd and 4th at the Diegem SP he raced on Thursday... Eli's loss in the fight for the stairs that you posted above gave him third, was that irrelevant?
The idea that points are meaningless for Pidcock is belied by the fact that none of this conversation ever takes place if he isn't stuck back in a third row start position from lack of points.





Pidcock in red.

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Fair enough. There were 111 on the start list (which I was looking at, because most of my race analysis is prior to the actual race) and 12 of them didn't. And I was being slightly hyperbolic.



There was no U-23 race yesterday, which is where most of those extra riders came from (including Merlov, who is 18).
FWIW, World Cup points go 51 places deep. That's a pretty solid indication of what field size expectations look like for these races, and It's the only way to keep CX from looking even more like a Belgian/Dutch intramural sport.

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Whether this was actually happening or not, it does appear to be what the riders in the race think/thought was going on.

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I've never seen Ville race before, I think he's a Swedish junior kid. Not sure how that's relevant. I'm not worried about him, though, definitely good experience (granted Mudges' point out disparity in speed between the 100 riders is valid).

Camera parallax can play tricks. Here's about as parallax-free a view as I can find, and you can see Mason's wheel was first to the curb. They are very close, though. After replaying a few times, it's honestly hard to figure out the root cause. Ultimately Pidcock crosses his front wheel with the guy on front of him, and it was game over, but I think that was because Mason got shoved from behind, not because of something that Pidcock did. Could be wrong, though.





Maybe you're right and the guys placing 20th plus all race each other very differently than the top riders who are always on camera race each other. Somehow I'm sceptical, as I can't imagine the top riders holding back against each other all that much with all the money and prestige on the line.

I think we should just drop it out of congeniality. Happy New Years!

It's relevant because he's been in 6 of the Kerstperiode races so far, and no one had ever seen him in action prior to his entanglement with Pidcock. Which simply isn't in accordance with...





The *vast* majority of the racing in top level CX doesn't ever make it to TV coverage. Most of the riders in a WC never even make it on screen at all, except maybe as a blur somewhere on the start straight.



I absolutely did not just spend part of this morning on the phone with someone in this actual race, talking about how much contact there was, and him getting shoulder checked in every single corner through the first couple of laps. Definitely didn't happen, not at all. You also definitely didn't post the photo of Pidcock chop blocking Eli the other night, and Wout definitely didn't try to do the same thing to Ronhaar, because no one would do that kind of thing with all the money and prestige on the line.



Pidcock managing to drop his bike in front of Mason when he went down is definitely quite a trick of parallax!






...but I'll let it drop now, lol!

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Another questionable move by Piddles today, throwing his number down on the ground right in front of his soigneur and making her pick it up off the ground. Superstar diva move. :) Hope he's OK, odd that he just completely quit after making it all the way to the battle for 4th. Probably just a mini-tantrum from getting tired of racing full-time crossers for (for him) minor placings when he's supposed to be part of the "big three."

Finally a Honsinger sighting in Europe, good to see her back at it and doing well.

Yeah, that was lame. She was like 4 ft away from him.

On a separate note, it seems as if the Dennis incident "argument" report I first read has been published again:

https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/news/new-details-emerge-about-the-death-of-olympian-melissa-hoskins/


I suspect the prosecutors have witnesses testimony and/or security camera footage.

That's ugly if accurate. Let's keep this one in 2023 and not crap up echappist's shiny new 2024 thread.

Let's be honest, the talk of him being part of the big three is based primarily on his win in Fayetteville, when the big two couldn't be arsed to show up. Otherwise, it seems that the talk is almost exclusively about potential unfulfilled.

He's never really been at the level of the big two in CX, but he's solidly at the head of the next level of CX talent when it isn't a sand race, and he's on form. Which he isn't this CX season, much the same as Wout. There are bigger fish to fry further down the road for both of these guys.

Which speaks to the "potential unfulfilled" thing, which seems pretty bonkers to me. Pidcock won both the CX and Mtb world titles last season, something VdP would dearly love to accomplish. VdP recently suggested that Pidcock will likely beat him to the goal of winning all three (rd/mtb/cx) championships, one of VdP's top career ambitions. Seems likely he'll also defend his Olympic Mtb title, and very few will bet against him repeating if he does; he's the best cross country Mtb racer on the planet right now. He also won Strade Bianche, and was on the podium at LBL. Pidcock finished just outside the top ten at the TDF last season, and has aspirations for significantly better, something that no one even pretends is in VdP's future.
Any *one* of these things would vault a rider into the upper tier of the peloton, and to do all of them is completely bananas. The best riders on the planet are Pogacar, VdP, Vingegaard, Wout, Roglic, Evenepoel, and Pidcock, and I'm not sure I would put them in that order. And I say this as someone who is usually the one suggesting he's slightly overrated as a CX rider!

He's also always been on the... aggresive... side of the behavior spectrum, and nothing he's done this CX season should really come as much of a surprise. Did everyone miss his block pass to take the last podium spot at short track worlds, or his battles with Eli back when they were both U23s?

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Tom won CX Worlds nosebreathing. He was unbeatable on the day. He's the best out there at peaking for a particular day. Whether it be Olympics, Alpe d'Huez or MTB worlds. Tactically on a higher level than anyone else as well.

Although you didn't explicitly say it I assume you mean better than "the rest" of the cx crew, and aren't counting higher tier riders like MvdP (who most likely IS the best at peaking for a particular day).

C'mon, the fact that he won nosebreathing isn't the W you think it is... it bolsters the point that the top competition wasn't there.

As the spit dried, other racers came forward to complain. Two photographers reported being assaulted. Race organizers apologized and promised to improve crowd control. Adri very publicly told drunks to stay home. And Mathieu put this behind him and went on winning.

The UCI fined Mathieu $250 Swiss francs. (Wasn't that what they fined Cipollini for wearing the wrong outfit decades ago?)

What was the better way?

Yeah but the big boys weren't there.

ha! I'm including all the competition. Haven't seen any indication of Mathieu being good at peaking. Seems to go as hard as he can almost all the time. Tactically, he's good in the sprint and final km but smashing the opposition repeatedly is his approach to most races.

I'm disappointed that Tom didn't do the RR in Glasgow. Probably his best chance at road worlds - course was made for him and Mathieu. Would have loved to see both of them dueling it out on the final lap. Tom is the only one who can corner better. Mathieu would have been stronger but Tom would be pushing the corners in the rain and tempting Mathieu to push the limits even more. Would have been spectacular.

Nothing on the Arkansas course that suited Mathieu's skillset, but there was a significant hill that didn't. Would have been close between Tom and Wout but I see Tom gapping Wout on the downhill and putting him into the red on the climb until the elastic broke. Tom's form on the day was the best in the World and he peaked specifically for that day.

It's all fun speculation - but I find it hard to remember anyone winning a Worlds CX race while holding so much in reserve.

Watch this year, when Mathieu takes Worlds without the other two racing.

Watching WvA and MvdP repeatedly pummel Pidcock last year makes me think the race wouldn't have played out that way. I doubt that hill is big enough to actually have given any of them too much trouble.

I also don't think Tom would have done well at road worlds. If he was fresh, probably would have been great, but he was clearly in a bad way during the Tour, and that doesn't just go away. I think the fact that MvdP was training through the tour, while Wout and Pog were going full gas was a huge factor in why MvdP was able to ride away. Tom would have been with Pog and Wout, if not dropped earlier.

Nobody is going to argue with you on that.

Good points. Tom's MTB win showed he had form but he probably knew his endurance/fatigue for a 6 hour race wasn't where he wanted it to be and it takes more than a month or two to tune that.

I dunno man, MSR, Roubaix, World's. MvdP has a knack for delivering on the biggest stages, and getting the W in the races he targets. Did nothing all Tour, then nailed Glasgow. Is that not indicative of knowing how to peak?

Pogacar doesn’t do the dirt like these guys but he has proven pretty adept at knocking off the big ones, what with 5 Monuments and another 1/2 dozen 1-days alone.