Thanks Power13, sorry their seems to beome negative BS
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [Power13]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
TimJ wrote:
then admit she served her penalty and move on.....they can't or won't move on...Bashing those who doped +10 years ago is their event, the
only event they do well most likely. There is no moving on for some.
Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
Last edited by:
pattersonpaul: Aug 26, 14 20:33
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [pattersonpaul]
[ In reply to ]
pattersonpaul wrote:
TimJ wrote:
then admit she served her penalty and move on.....they can't or won't move on...Bashing those who doped +10 years ago is their event, the
only event they do well most likely. There is no moving on for some.
You can't unring that bell. Doping is bullshit and as far as I am concerned you get one chance in a sport. To compare it to "holding" in a sport is completely ludicrous.
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [imsparticus]
[ In reply to ]
Yes KUDOS to Nina! She earned it, she worked VERY hard to win this race with all her heart. I admire Nina and consider her one of the kindest persons (to a fault) that I have every met..
If only all you haters on here had just a second to sit with her, talk with her, you would never say these hateful things about her.. to her face. I would love to see each and everyone of you who bash her, confess on here, the mistakes you have made in life and display them all on here, for everyone to make hateful comments towards you... for your mistakes. You sicken me. We all make mistakes, we pay the price, sentence served..the end. No one is perfect.
Life is too short, let it go. Nothing she does affects you. Go back to your lives. Look in the mirror.
I also love Desoto, I love that they support her and will always buy their products. Anything Nina tries and supports is good for me and I'm proud to support those companies as well.
I wish I could be in Clermont for the big party..she deserves it and so much more!!!!
If only all you haters on here had just a second to sit with her, talk with her, you would never say these hateful things about her.. to her face. I would love to see each and everyone of you who bash her, confess on here, the mistakes you have made in life and display them all on here, for everyone to make hateful comments towards you... for your mistakes. You sicken me. We all make mistakes, we pay the price, sentence served..the end. No one is perfect.
Life is too short, let it go. Nothing she does affects you. Go back to your lives. Look in the mirror.
I also love Desoto, I love that they support her and will always buy their products. Anything Nina tries and supports is good for me and I'm proud to support those companies as well.
I wish I could be in Clermont for the big party..she deserves it and so much more!!!!
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [M~]
[ In reply to ]
M
You haven't messaged me so I guess you are not interested in my offer.
I agree with you more than most but unfortunately this is sport and sometimes the difference between second and winning is something extra, the means and method behind Nina's cheating was testament to her amateur approach and use, she never denied using a PED and admitted it after the A sample came back positive, no denial, no arguments, no lies to you/ friends or family 10 years ago.
I personally have never cheated in a race, taken a PED, cut a swim buoy, never drafted (despite being frustrated doing IMFL and Gulf Coast), thrown a GU wrapper or water bottle outside of the drop zone, cut a course or even received a penalty or warning in any fashion in my life. Can you or the other witch hunters say the same?
When I first came to the US I was amazed and intimidated at how jacked everyone looked and 'still find it hard to believe that their is a single player in Football, Basketball or Baseball that has always been clean. I know that steroids etc. are widely available in most high schools and anyone with a chance of a scholarship to college is under pressure to use them (yes believe it or not these people are amongst us or possibly even our children). Nina didn't use these and was always the small skinny kid in the pool that had to work harder than the other girls, she has an enlarged heart which is her genetic gift or burden. We as a nation (yes I am an American now) supported Lance in the biggest cover up of the use of PEDs, smirking at the French with our he's never tested positive attitude knowing full well that it was a dirty sport, likewise we also competed and even won the cold war era in sports supporting our athletes with whatever technology and drugs we could get away with. Even at the training center in Colorado they continue using whatever means possible to enhance our athletes, some of which I would say are unethical even if legal.
Ultimately I hope our sport is better for the mistakes that we all have made along the way and will continue to improve.
I am a proud American and yes I am proud of my wife for her achievements in life and in Louisville!
Mr.Carlson set the tone for this thread with his article which is obviously and unfortunately supported by Dan.
You haven't messaged me so I guess you are not interested in my offer.
I agree with you more than most but unfortunately this is sport and sometimes the difference between second and winning is something extra, the means and method behind Nina's cheating was testament to her amateur approach and use, she never denied using a PED and admitted it after the A sample came back positive, no denial, no arguments, no lies to you/ friends or family 10 years ago.
I personally have never cheated in a race, taken a PED, cut a swim buoy, never drafted (despite being frustrated doing IMFL and Gulf Coast), thrown a GU wrapper or water bottle outside of the drop zone, cut a course or even received a penalty or warning in any fashion in my life. Can you or the other witch hunters say the same?
When I first came to the US I was amazed and intimidated at how jacked everyone looked and 'still find it hard to believe that their is a single player in Football, Basketball or Baseball that has always been clean. I know that steroids etc. are widely available in most high schools and anyone with a chance of a scholarship to college is under pressure to use them (yes believe it or not these people are amongst us or possibly even our children). Nina didn't use these and was always the small skinny kid in the pool that had to work harder than the other girls, she has an enlarged heart which is her genetic gift or burden. We as a nation (yes I am an American now) supported Lance in the biggest cover up of the use of PEDs, smirking at the French with our he's never tested positive attitude knowing full well that it was a dirty sport, likewise we also competed and even won the cold war era in sports supporting our athletes with whatever technology and drugs we could get away with. Even at the training center in Colorado they continue using whatever means possible to enhance our athletes, some of which I would say are unethical even if legal.
Ultimately I hope our sport is better for the mistakes that we all have made along the way and will continue to improve.
I am a proud American and yes I am proud of my wife for her achievements in life and in Louisville!
Mr.Carlson set the tone for this thread with his article which is obviously and unfortunately supported by Dan.
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
TimJ wrote:
M You haven't messaged me so I guess you are not interested in my offer.
I agree with you more than most but unfortunately this is sport and sometimes the difference between second and winning is something extra, the means and method behind Nina's cheating was testament to her amateur approach and use, she never denied using a PED and admitted it after the A sample came back positive, no denial, no arguments, no lies to you/ friends or family 10 years ago.
I personally have never cheated in a race, taken a PED, cut a swim buoy, never drafted (despite being frustrated doing IMFL and Gulf Coast), thrown a GU wrapper or water bottle outside of the drop zone, cut a course or even received a penalty or warning in any fashion in my life. Can you or the other witch hunters say the same?
When I first came to the US I was amazed and intimidated at how jacked everyone looked and 'still find it hard to believe that their is a single player in Football, Basketball or Baseball that has always been clean. I know that steroids etc. are widely available in most high schools and anyone with a chance of a scholarship to college is under pressure to use them (yes believe it or not these people are amongst us or possibly even our children). Nina didn't use these and was always the small skinny kid in the pool that had to work harder than the other girls, she has an enlarged heart which is her genetic gift or burden. We as a nation (yes I am an American now) supported Lance in the biggest cover up of the use of PEDs, smirking at the French with our he's never tested positive attitude knowing full well that it was a dirty sport, likewise we also competed and even won the cold war era in sports supporting our athletes with whatever technology and drugs we could get away with. Even at the training center in Colorado they continue using whatever means possible to enhance our athletes, some of which I would say are unethical even if legal.
Ultimately I hope our sport is better for the mistakes that we all have made along the way and will continue to improve.
I am a proud American and yes I am proud of my wife for her achievements in life and in Louisville!
Mr.Carlson set the tone for this thread with his article which is obviously and unfortunately supported by Dan.
Thanks for your thoughtful response and I appreciate your offer. I can absolutely say the same about not cheating in a race. When I drop a wrapper/bottle on the course when on my bike, I stop and pick it up. But those little things aren't comparable to people who take PEDS. I consider that a breach of trust to the sport. As a professional in the sport, (in my opinion) you should be held to a higher standard than the every day weekend warrior since you are more "out there" for people to see. When a pro gets popped for PED use, it hurts everyone and to me that trust is shattered. The trust I have that a pro will come to the line racing clean to compete against other pros racing clean. Am I naive enough to truly believe that all the pros are currently clean? Not on your life. I am sure there are cheaters right now that haven't been caught.
I have nothing personal against your wife. She could be a lovely person. My initial issue was with the fact that DeSoto seemed to be partnering with someone who i don't believe should even be in the sport (I believe dopers should be a one and done in that sport). And because of their association with a known PED user, I was going to rethink my support of that brand. I would do the same thing with Lance (no longer support Honey Stingers either which kills me as I loved that product).
By the way, my gut tells me that the PED use in the pros pales in comparison to what is going on in the amateur ranks.
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [M~]
[ In reply to ]
> My initial issue was with the fact that DeSoto seemed to be partnering with someone who i don't believe should even be in the sport (I believe dopers should be a one and done in that sport)
I'm with you on the personal DeSoto boycott. There is no "trial period" for use of EPO in professional triathlon.
I'm with you on the personal DeSoto boycott. There is no "trial period" for use of EPO in professional triathlon.
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [M~]
[ In reply to ]
M
I completely agree with your last statement! Please continue to use the products you like and are comfortable with, as we all know they are hard to find. Nina is a previous offender of which is a historical fact, but to say she is a known user is both unfair and just not true. No need to be a fan and of course you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else, we are all better without animosity in our hearts. If we ever meet I would be happy to shake your hand for racing honest, no need to even acknowledge my wife if she is there but please don't be a dick to her either.
Sincerely
Tim
I completely agree with your last statement! Please continue to use the products you like and are comfortable with, as we all know they are hard to find. Nina is a previous offender of which is a historical fact, but to say she is a known user is both unfair and just not true. No need to be a fan and of course you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else, we are all better without animosity in our hearts. If we ever meet I would be happy to shake your hand for racing honest, no need to even acknowledge my wife if she is there but please don't be a dick to her either.
Sincerely
Tim
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [trail]
[ In reply to ]
trail
Throwing out or boycotting products from companies that have ever supported Nina or anyone else that has ever tested positive is somewhat impossible and just plain stupid but that is obviously your choice. If you would like to send me a list of all of your gear or products then I will help enlighten you. I am sure you threw away anything with a Nike logo too!
Throwing out or boycotting products from companies that have ever supported Nina or anyone else that has ever tested positive is somewhat impossible and just plain stupid but that is obviously your choice. If you would like to send me a list of all of your gear or products then I will help enlighten you. I am sure you threw away anything with a Nike logo too!
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
I have not cheated in Triathlon in my 30 years in the sport. But I have done some real stupid things and made bad/wrong decisions in the other parts of my life. I have always felt if someone was truly remorseful, that they should be given a second chance. Mainly because a second chance was given to me. It is easy to justify things in the moment but then you look back and realize how stupid and wrong it was. I wore DeSoto running shorts this morning and will be in DeSoto tri shorts tomorrow. Wonder how many people were worried about DeSoto clothing last Friday/
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
TimJ wrote:
trail Throwing out or boycotting products from companies that have ever supported Nina or anyone else that has ever tested positive is somewhat impossible and just plain stupid but that is obviously your choice. If you would like to send me a list of all of your gear or products then I will help enlighten you. I am sure you threw away anything with a Nike logo too!
The issue is the recent/continued support. Not supporters who were supporting the athlete at that time.
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
TimJ wrote:
M I completely agree with your last statement! Please continue to use the products you like and are comfortable with, as we all know they are hard to find. Nina is a previous offender of which is a historical fact, but to say she is a known user is both unfair and just not true. No need to be a fan and of course you are entitled to your opinion as is everyone else, we are all better without animosity in our hearts. If we ever meet I would be happy to shake your hand for racing honest, no need to even acknowledge my wife if she is there but please don't be a dick to her either.
Sincerely
Tim
If I implied that I believe she is still doping, I apologize (I don't think I did that though). I have no idea what your wife is up to but I didn't mean to imply she is currently doping. Just going on past transgressions.
Mark
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
>Throwing out or boycotting products from companies that have ever supported Nina or anyone else that has ever tested positive is somewhat impossible and just plain stupid but that is obviously your choice. If you would like to send me a list of all of your >gear or products then I will help enlighten you. I am sure you threw away anything with a Nike logo too!
No Nike from me since about '95. And Trek and Oakley. DZ Nuts. It's so hard to keep The List up-do-date, and I'm certainly not perfect about it.
It's not personal. It's just a choice to not reward corporate decisions to promote athletes who have seriously undermined clean competition.
I agree it's kind of silly, though I'd stop short of "stupid." I might just be depriving myself of good products. But as I've written above, I think public shaming is the most cost-effective anti-doping mechanism there is.
I also agree with the rules. I agree that Nina should be allowed to race, and to win. But the rules don't govern public response to her and her sponsors.
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [BMANX]
[ In reply to ]
So, based on your idea if you get caught drafting (cheating) you should be banned for life? Hmm so for example Leanda Cave served a penalty for cheating (drafing in Hawaii) so she should be banned.... cool...
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [trail]
[ In reply to ]
trail
'Just interested, what sports do you watch on TV? Have you ever cheated at anything? What products do you actually use?
'Just interested, what sports do you watch on TV? Have you ever cheated at anything? What products do you actually use?
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [pattersonpaul]
[ In reply to ]
pattersonpaul wrote:
TimJ wrote:
then admit she served her penalty and move on.....they can't or won't move on...Bashing those who doped +10 years ago is their event, the
only event they do well most likely. There is no moving on for some.
I have a sincere question to you and others who think we should all "move on". And it relates not to the punitive effects on the doper, but to the deterrent effects on young athletes.
Do you believe that a 20-year old aspiring pro athlete is deterred by a 2 (or even 4) year ban? They all know that pretty much nobody is winning substantial money at that age. So why not take the risk of EPO, and if caught, serve the 4 years and then start competing again at age 24?
But if they know that--if caught--they will get no fan support and virtually no sponsor support for the rest of their career, no matter how many races they win--is that a sufficient deterrent to prevent doping?
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [IronHoosier]
[ In reply to ]
IronHoosier wrote:
Yes KUDOS to Nina! She earned it, she worked VERY hard to win this race with all her heart. I admire Nina and consider her one of the kindest persons (to a fault) that I have every met.. If only all you haters on here had just a second to sit with her, talk with her, you would never say these hateful things about her.. to her face. I would love to see each and everyone of you who bash her, confess on here, the mistakes you have made in life and display them all on here, for everyone to make hateful comments towards you... for your mistakes. You sicken me. We all make mistakes, we pay the price, sentence served..the end. No one is perfect.
Life is too short, let it go. Nothing she does affects you. Go back to your lives. Look in the mirror.
I also love Desoto, I love that they support her and will always buy their products. Anything Nina tries and supports is good for me and I'm proud to support those companies as well.
I wish I could be in Clermont for the big party..she deserves it and so much more!!!!
I'm honestly puzzled by the calls of "haters" in this thread. I've seen nobody say that Nina is a bad person, or that she's evil, or unkind. I see impersonal discussion about what should happen to people convicted of doping. The only ones making it personal are her supporters--claiming that her "niceness" should be a factor how fans/sponsors react to her past transgressions.
And, in fact, you folks are the only ones spewing vitriol--and you're doing it simply to quiet a conversation you wish weren't happening because some opinions are different than your own. And while I understand the defensiveness coming from fans and friends, there are others I'm shocked are engaging in it--devashish paul and desert dude I'm looking at you.
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
TimJ wrote:
trail 'Just interested, what sports do you watch on TV? Have you ever cheated at anything? What products do you actually use?
Aren't you Nina's husband? And you're surprised someone might have a one-sided opinion about your wife?
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [TimJ]
[ In reply to ]
TimJ,
Thanks for your discussions. I have a sincere question that maybe you can answer on behalf of Nina, and it relates to my comment on deterrents above.
The possibility of a 2-year ban was obviously not enough of a deterrent to prevent Nina from doping at the age of 35. Can she look back and imagine what would have been a deterrent at the time?
I'm assuming that if she had a chance to do it all over again, knowing what she knows now, she would have skipped the EPO. But I'm not talking about the benefit of hindsight.
If, in 2004, she knew that not only would she risk a 2 year ban, but 10 years later her fans still would not return and she'd have few sponsors--would that have been enough of a deterrent?
Thanks for your discussions. I have a sincere question that maybe you can answer on behalf of Nina, and it relates to my comment on deterrents above.
The possibility of a 2-year ban was obviously not enough of a deterrent to prevent Nina from doping at the age of 35. Can she look back and imagine what would have been a deterrent at the time?
I'm assuming that if she had a chance to do it all over again, knowing what she knows now, she would have skipped the EPO. But I'm not talking about the benefit of hindsight.
If, in 2004, she knew that not only would she risk a 2 year ban, but 10 years later her fans still would not return and she'd have few sponsors--would that have been enough of a deterrent?
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [BMANX]
[ In reply to ]
100% agree
________________
Adrian in Vancouver
________________
Adrian in Vancouver
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [trail]
[ In reply to ]
I had every intent of boycotting Trek for the way they aligned with LA and sabotaged Greg Lemond. Unfortunately I could not follow through with the boycott when this past weekend I was forced to drop $3,300 on 3 mountain bikes for my family. Unfortunately they make some great affordable bikes....but it really pains me.
Same goes for Nike, but the Nike Free's are fantastic shoes!
________________
Adrian in Vancouver
Same goes for Nike, but the Nike Free's are fantastic shoes!
________________
Adrian in Vancouver
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [Jordan45]
[ In reply to ]
Jordan45
Yes I am Nina's husband and no I am not surprised at all, but I also find it strange if not excessive that someone would avoid using the post office and only receive and send via Fed Ex or UPS.
Yes I am Nina's husband and no I am not surprised at all, but I also find it strange if not excessive that someone would avoid using the post office and only receive and send via Fed Ex or UPS.
Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [imsparticus]
[ In reply to ]
Is there anything really spectacular here? Great performance for a 46 year old, but let's be honest.....if one of the top 15 women contenders in the world were racing that race, she might have been over 30 minutes behind. I say this without knowing the course but seeing what top racers are putting down for times nowadays. If anything this is just a sign of how diluted the fields are getting now with so many races. For instance, when I think of Ironman, Kentucky never comes to mind.
________________
Adrian in Vancouver
________________
Adrian in Vancouver
>'Just interested, what sports do you watch on TV?
Cycling, triathlon, and NFL football. I don't boycott the entire sport. I boycott the actors within the sport.
> Have you ever cheated at anything?
That's a pretty broad term. I've never doped (which for a SoCal road cyclist is apparently rare). I've never cut a turn, etc. I have gotten one drafting penalty in ~10 years of triathlon, but it was inadvertant. (the guy jumped before I got my wheel in front of his...I cracked, dropped back, and got busted as I should have been).
I'm sure I've cheated in many small ways throughout life.
>What products do you actually use?
Well dozens in the triathlon/cycling world, obviously. My most recent purchases are Silca, Zipp, and Flo. I'm sure if I listed them you could shoot lots of holes in the purity of my list. Certainly Zipp has probably had sponsor relationships with many a doper. But going down their list of athletes, nothing jumps out at me. Except of course Omega Pharma Quick-Step! I just pick the ones that are obvious to me. I'm just an individual seeking to stem corporate support for those who undermine sport. In a small way.
Cycling, triathlon, and NFL football. I don't boycott the entire sport. I boycott the actors within the sport.
> Have you ever cheated at anything?
That's a pretty broad term. I've never doped (which for a SoCal road cyclist is apparently rare). I've never cut a turn, etc. I have gotten one drafting penalty in ~10 years of triathlon, but it was inadvertant. (the guy jumped before I got my wheel in front of his...I cracked, dropped back, and got busted as I should have been).
I'm sure I've cheated in many small ways throughout life.
>What products do you actually use?
Well dozens in the triathlon/cycling world, obviously. My most recent purchases are Silca, Zipp, and Flo. I'm sure if I listed them you could shoot lots of holes in the purity of my list. Certainly Zipp has probably had sponsor relationships with many a doper. But going down their list of athletes, nothing jumps out at me. Except of course Omega Pharma Quick-Step! I just pick the ones that are obvious to me. I'm just an individual seeking to stem corporate support for those who undermine sport. In a small way.