Isn't this how people win races: no one faster shows up?
I think drug cheats should have more than a year or two penalty. A mere slap.

I don't begrudge Nina racing or even winning. I just can't get excited about it regardless if she is the oldest winner blah blah blah.

And she may very well have been sorry, ashamed and embarrassed by her premeditated cheating and stealing of Natasha title however this is the price she pays.

I would think that if she was really that ashamed that she would NEVER show her face at an endurance event. But hey, that's me.

Man you people are way to easy to Troll, this thread made my afternoon :)

Not to divert the thread but I met TimJ when we lived in Clermont back in 2005. Super class guy. Glad to see he's aged about 5 minutes in the last nine years.

ice try on the recovery. By your replies I think you just realized you f"d up

My primary post on this thread was concerning my fathers view on the use of PED's (he is a physician) and i think his perspective is interesting and one sports should seriously consider in the future. I am not taking anything back at all, i will always support the idea that if you are not cheating you are not trying in sports, but the lines have to be well drawn.

Let's get back to why i do not support doping/no tolerance at all but i don't care about drafting. It is fairly simple, anybody can draft on the "playing field" where the judges are watching and trying to catch drafters. PED's in my opinion cross a line from pushing the limits of the game to over the line. Similar to my soccer analogy i have no problem giving a guy a slight jab in the side during a corner kick but doing a late tackle into somebody's knee with the intent to injure has crossed the line. I am going after another individual in an extremely unfair manner. Doping in my opinion attacks a fellow competitor in an unfair matter as the ability to catch the doper and enforce the rule is compromised. In other words we cannot observe the doper on the playing field and say, "wow he is clearly doping, lets penalize him." We can easily observe drafting, center line infractions, sneaking on fins, wetsuit in non wetsuit swim, etc. Same with soccer, the Ref's can easily notice dangerous challenges, off sides, flopping, holding, and a myriad of other offenses.

One final example of my point. A road race last month came down to the final lap which featured a long uphill finish. The center line rule was in effect and everybody had observed the rule..until the last last. Coming into the finish one team was blocking the front to get position for the final climb, i was stuck behind and decided it was not worth risking being DQ'ed, another team of 3-4 guys decided to break the center line and get ahead of the blocking team, these guys ended up on the podium and were never DQ'ed. They took a risk and it paid off, it could have also gone the other way. Sure everybody was talking about it but in the end they won and nobody had an issue, most people were mad they did not just hop the center line at the end. This is an example of pushing the line but it is a clearly observable infraction and one that can be easily enforced. Now let's say these guys were doping, we would have no way of knowing because they don't test cat 3/4's at local races and if they did it could still be easily beaten or worked around. It is underhanded and cannot be countered during an event. I can send elbows to a defender all game and if he has enough of it he can send some back my way, it gets bad we fight and both get red cards, sit out the next game and back to normal. Doping cannot be observed by the competitors on the field, it cannot be easily countered on the field, individuals cannot confront it since you have to have a drug test, and many times the test's are foiled. This might be a bit rambling but i just spent the whole day working on chemistry and am not the most cogent.

I am a nice guy, where do I get my EPO?

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Hey I am nicer than you so I want some Clenbuterol as well, and will everyone turn a blind eye to the drafting I am planning on doing because that is apparently legal cheating now and I expect to be able to cheat as much as anybody else.


F*£K the guys who I am cheating out of a podium spot who played by the rules, they are just so stupid!!!!!! Why would anyone need ruled FFS.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

You have questionable morals. I'm glad I don't have to do business with you.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Personally, I value being a kind/nice person over being a great athlete. I really don’t care how great of an athlete some punk/thug is. I don't view taking PEDs so much a moral question, as a health question. I'm 54 and if I was absolutely sure testosterone was safe, I would consider taking it – not to perform better in tris, but to feel younger and better across the board.

"don't like it find another sport." REALLY?? As a coach, a regular contributor to this forum and what I would regard as a representative of this sport, I'm surprised by the tone of your comments. This is our sport and those of us that would like to see a life time ban for those that use PEDs have every right to post our views on a public forum just as you have a right to disagree in an intelligent manner. Many of us feel those who choose to use PEDs have no place in our sport....EVER!!

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I am assuming you do not do business with anybody who has gotten a speeding ticket as well? People on a daily basis push the line for what is acceptable while driving, is that immoral? I would suggest never doing business with any sports player in general then if pushing the line is "immoral".

You speeding analogy only applies if after that speeding ticket, you were now able to drive 1mph faster than before without getting a ticket than your were beforehand. So while you received punishment, the benefits of breaking the rules will continue to benefit you for the rest of your life.

Using drugs isn't like speeding. Its' like using the shoulder as a lane, passing between cars, running red lights and just saying "f*** you " to the rules in general. 99.9% of the time, speeding does no harm to the other motorists around you. The greatest risk is when slower drivers don;t yield the left lane, and when speeding drivers become aggressive when passing. Speeding itself is not inherently hazardous. Speed limits are a little arbitrary at times and in a perfect world they would change based on conditions (curves, nighttime, visibility, wind, traffic levels, etc.)

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Please read my previous posts, i am not arguing for drug use at all, i was simply saying in team sports people push the rules all the time to get an advantage. That is all, i carefully laid out why i do not support doping at all.

But if you knew there were few or no marshalls on the bike course, you'd be sucking every wheel you could find?

What you advocated was not "pushing the line." You Advocared blatant cheating, as long as you are willing to pay the price.

You are OK breaking the rules if it suits you and gives you an advantage. You are perfectly comfortable cheating, as long as others have the same "opportunity" to cheat.

You can engage in all the relativism you want, but the reality is that you are a cheat and have questionable morals.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Qoute " i will always support the idea that if you are not cheating you are not trying in sports, but the lines have to be well drawn." closed qoute

Who is to decide where the line is well drawn? If you agree to a line, then would not one be ok to lie that they agree to that line so they can cheat and cross that line?

You can use all the examples you want to justify YOUR cheating. And please, spare me with the bullshit that you will cheat to win the prize (or prize money) but will play fair in othe competitive ares of life.
So you say its ok to cheat and not ok to dope, well who gives a shit what YOU belive, they are both against the rules. So you get to choose where the line is? Sport has rules and penalties to support ethical behaviour, not to cheat to win. Though some will use the penalties as a strategy that is not what they were designed for. Rules or laws in life are the same for society. What the heck, I am willing to satisfy my anger to do 20 to life so its woth it to kill someone, you think that somehow justifies my action?
You go on and on in your posts of your examples to justify to yourself you are ok with cheating. Fine. At least you admit openly to what you are. A cheat

Sorry we just don't this to be true.

http://velonews.competitor.com/...ncing-drugs_317590/1

That is the point Mike doesn't get....the lines are drawn already. Those lines are called "the rules."

You don't get to pick and choose which ones you adhere to on whatever sliding moral scale you have. Break the rules and you are cheating.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

There I fixed it for you. Cheating bastards.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

M

I have no idea what Nina has done to you personally that makes you feel this way and I hope you are not left wondering what shoes, clothes, nutritional product, recoverevey product etc. that you should use.

Her sponsorship with DeSoto involves no money and she is very happy to be able to work with people that want to improve the sport and their product. If it means so much to you then I will either purchase Nina's clothing from them at full RRP or even yours for you! (contract pending of course).

Send me a private message if you would like to discuss further.

Best

Tim

Answer this question: Holding is against the rules in football, if a player holds and receives a penalty i am assuming they are now a cheat and cannot be trusted in any other area of life correct? They now must clearly have questionable morals according to your line of reasoning.

Yeah,mi figured you would come back with a response similar to that.

I have zero interest in discussing every potential rules infraction across multiple sports with you.

The reality is that there are sports where rules violations are simply part of June sport....for any number of reasons. Triathlon isn't one of them, nor is cycling.

Your posts speak for themselves.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

then admit she served her penalty and move on.....

Who, me?

I'm not criticizing her.....she did her time. I have no problem with her racing.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams