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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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I think what you are missing is that there is a line. Did you bite an opponent? How about carry a knife in your sock and stab them? I realize that is overboard but I am trying to make a point. Every sport has rules that are bent or broken while playing but there are also things you just don't do...that's the line. For many people the line in triathlon/endurance sports is doping.

______________________________________________

I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [Supersquid] [ In reply to ]
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No, but i also have switched to road racing so its less applicable to me now.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
Have any of you people who pile on to the dopers ever played a serious team sport? I played soccer in college and it was extremely competitive and you cheat whenever you can to get an advantage on the field...get caught you serve your time and move on. I had dozens of yellow cards and a few red cards but i was able to get inside other teams heads and piss them off to the point where i had a serious advantage, am i allowed to stomp guys feet, no, but if the ref does not see it never happened. A family member played D1 football and the coach wanted him to put on 20 lbs one off season and said do what you need to do, he ran some cycles and boom he was back on the starting squad. That is how sports work, its a game and the people who take the most risks win. I am not supporting doping but i also don't care, take the risk and suffer the consequences if you are caught.

If you believe it's OK to cheat whenever you can get an advantage on the field, then why are you not supporting doping?
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [Devlon] [ In reply to ]
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The thing I find unfortunate and I contributed to this is that this thread has over 100 posts while the 'Great Job Thomas Gerlach!' thread has 12 posts and is on page two now. The guy posts around here, was 16 seconds off winning and here we are focused on this.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
A family member played D1 football and the coach wanted him to put on 20 lbs one off season and said do what you need to do, he ran some cycles and boom he was back on the starting squad. That is how sports work.

That may be how "sports works", but the point is that many people don't agree that this is how sports are meant to work. Those of us who believe that doping is to be discouraged, even despite knowing that it happens all the time, would prefer to call for harsher penalties and better enforcement than to just give up and let the dopers win.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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>the event places insane demands on them that are not natural. I remember when the FIS Tour de Ski was set up and and thinking "these stages are a joke

I disagree with that line of reasoning. The event is not insanely demanding. It's defeating the competition that is insanely demanding. Usain Bolt running 9.58 is no less "insane" than riding to 1st in the TdF. And I'd speculate that doping has roughly equivalent benefit to both events (different kinds of doping, maybe, but doping nonetheless). So I find it hard to accept that Grand Tours are provide some kind of unique incentive to dope. The only unique incentive is that they're the most lucrative races, so they attract the best competition.

>so it was possible to do it clean and recover and race the next day.

It is completely possible to race every stage of the TdF clean and recover and race the next day. Plenty of guys do it. They just don't typically win.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [tucktri] [ In reply to ]
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tucktri wrote:
Replying to thread in general.

Can we get a list of dopers we are supposed to hate? Because I'm confused. Lance we need to hate. Michi Weiss we need to hate. Lisa H again hate. But Nina Kraft we are cool with? Am I missing anyone?

take your common sense get the hell out of here! this kool-aid is delicious.

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Haters gonna hate!
Congrats on the huge win Nina & TimJ. Enjoy it!
All I know is we are having a big ass party for them when they get back to Clermont!!
Sorry to interrupt.
Argue on guys; I hope you angry guys eventually find happiness.. Ha!




Last edited by: KJGrog: Aug 25, 14 11:02
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:


...sport is an unique arena that draws out our base desires, i think very type A men can relate to this and they key is to know where to draw the line. I have never and will never cheat on taxes, at work, school, family etc, that is a moral realm.

ha! I'm giving you a 8/10 for trolling, a 2/10 for honesty, a -1/10 for grammar, and -5/10 for your vaguely misogynistic generalization of people (where you assume that since you're a scummy human (at your core) everyone else must be too).

You're net positive, but still failing... try harder!
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
I've met Nina personally several times, and been in the same races shortly after her ban was lifted. She returned much slower than her former "Nina the Machina" self. I am inclined to believe that she is truly sorry for her time doping, is racing clean, racing much slower and frankly not competitive on the global scale. If Mirinda Carfrae showed up at Louisville, and Nina did this exact same performance we would have zero discussion because she would be way off the back. Just because no one fast showed up, now we're having "the doper won" discussion. Last year, Nina was 7 minutes slower, was 4th, and essentially had the same performance on much less current. No one said anything. The hate is on right now because no one faster than her showed up.

I feel there is more overall hate for her here than Natasha Badmann probably has today.

I'm surprised you try to polarize this discussion into camps of love and hate. I don't see any hate at all here--I read discussions about when someone should be allowed to race again after doping, and whether or not their doping is fair game for discussion after they're reinstated. No one is calling her a bad person.

Surely we haven't devolved to a point where we label someone a hater simply for disagreeing with an opinion?

Regardless, here's the nuance in the issue: the fans and sponsors aren't bound by the governing body's or RD's rules about reinstatement. A doper can be reinstated after 2-4 years, but it doesn't mean the fans need to follow suit and accept them back into the sport. We can bring up their past doping, and remind folks there are hundreds of outstanding pro's who have never been caught doping.

And we can remind sponsors of that.

In other words: a convicted doper may be able to start racing again, and collect prize money. But if the fans are upset enough about it, sponsors will continue to shy away from her. And that seems like a perfectly legitimate fair-market system.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [imsparticus] [ In reply to ]
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Where is Sam Gyde when you need him?
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [over9000!] [ In reply to ]
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I'd LOVE to see that on the podium.....
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [over9000!] [ In reply to ]
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over9000! wrote:


Where is Sam Gyde when you need him?

Perhaps he was Nina's waiter.


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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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ggeiger wrote:
I'd LOVE to see that on the podium.....

Then earn yourself a spot on the podium, get a Sharpie and a shirt.

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not female and a pro. I think the others are too nice to do that.

pattersonpaul wrote:
ggeiger wrote:
I'd LOVE to see that on the podium.....


Then earn yourself a spot on the podium, get a Sharpie and a shirt.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [ggeiger] [ In reply to ]
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The volunteers might have had some thoughts on it.

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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [AlwaysCurious] [ In reply to ]
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Like. ;-) golf claps.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [bhc] [ In reply to ]
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bhc wrote:
A serious question: If an athlete uses PEDs for a couple of years and makes significant gains, then stops using the PEDs but continues to train at a high level. Do the gains made while using the PEDs carry over or do the gains vanish over time?

Well some will say yes but that's based more on preconceived ideas. I've not seen anything where scientific research proves or disproves this. Maybe someone could reference to a source?
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [JoeO] [ In reply to ]
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Doping is off the field and not equal access and or constrained by ones monetary situation.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [Runguy] [ In reply to ]
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Where the hell you gonna get the control group? Have non dopers drop out of the sport at the same time a doper is busted to use. There is evidence that as you put your body through training stress there are gains. If by doping you put in more training stress there is then more gains. Through years of training mitochondria, cappelaries and other physical adaptions occur. You dispute this. sheesh dude, use your head
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [WILLEATFORFOOD] [ In reply to ]
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WILLEATFORFOOD wrote:
-Mike- wrote:


...sport is an unique arena that draws out our base desires, i think very type A men can relate to this and they key is to know where to draw the line. I have never and will never cheat on taxes, at work, school, family etc, that is a moral realm.


ha! I'm giving you a 8/10 for trolling, a 2/10 for honesty, a -1/10 for grammar, and -5/10 for your vaguely misogynistic generalization of people (where you assume that since you're a scummy human (at your core) everyone else must be too).

You're net positive, but still failing... try harder!

POTD. And you saved someone $3200 at the shrink's office.

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
Where the hell you gonna get the control group? Have non dopers drop out of the sport at the same time a doper is busted to use. There is evidence that as you put your body through training stress there are gains. If by doping you put in more training stress there is then more gains. Through years of training mitochondria, cappelaries and other physical adaptions occur. You dispute this. sheesh dude, use your head

yea, you can keep saying that but it doesn't necessarily mean its true. people used to think the world was flat and that if you sailed far enough you would fall off the earth. people used their heads and thought the sun revolved around the earth. sheesh, dud

scientist control test for a lot of things. if there was a will there would be a way.
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [Runguy] [ In reply to ]
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So no proof of increased traing stress causing more adaption......your examples.are a fail. Good day
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [-Mike-] [ In reply to ]
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-Mike- wrote:
Doping is off the field and not equal access and or constrained by ones monetary situation.

Because not everyone can afford to cheat equally So it would be unfair. Got it

"Willeatforfood" nailed it
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Re: Nina Kraft wins IMKY at 46. [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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Kenney wrote:
So no proof of increased traing stress causing more adaption......your examples.are a fail. Good day


listen, all I'm saying is just show some proof not just rhetoric
. some people want a lifetime ban so it would seem logical that there would be scientific reasons beyond we "think" epo results in a lifetime of enhanced performance. a reasonable person would agree
Last edited by: Runguy: Aug 25, 14 15:12
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