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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Travis R wrote:
I like how she makes an effort to mention her "volunteer commitments". Because she's a really good person and everybody else is a baddie. I hate the victim bullshit these cheater types always go for. They think everybody is dumb enough to believe it, which is an insult to our intelligence.

72 hours is plenty of time, if she actually had anything to back it up. She couldn't find 5 minutes to make a phone call to ask for more time? I call bullshit. I'm no master of time management, but that's just weak. If you've got something this important in your life that comes up, you can find time to fix it, or at least a few minutes for a status update. If the police knock at my door because I am suspected of wrongdoing, you can bet I'll be making time for them. "Uhh, sorry, officer, but I gotta run - got volunteer commitments, y'know!" If my furnace goes out, it will get fixed. Maybe I gotta rearrange the schedule a bit, but it will get done if it's important enough.

72 hours sounds like a really long volunteer shift !!! (pink pink pink). Maybe she was a volunteer with the Canadian govt at our refugee processing centers Beirut Lebanon or in Amman Jordan to process Syrian refugees and was too busy doing humanitarian stuff...I don't know...
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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If I was Julie Miller's cousin or something...I would totally pony up and buy her a 920xt for Christmas...then watch her open it. When she looks back at me...


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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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I guess she expanded her quote a bit for the local Squamish paper. Really good to know she loves fair competition.

On Monday, Miller sent a brief statement to The Squamish Chief via email.
“Triathlon Canada’s decision is based on previous anecdotal and inaccurate information – there’s nothing new here. I was contacted three days before the review and given 72 hours to defend myself. I have young children and a full-time job as well as my volunteer commitments, so this wasn’t fair or realistic,” said Miller.
“Most importantly, I did not cheat and stand by my original statement. I continue to love sport and the joy of fair competition with myself and others, and I am training daily for future events. This has been an extremely difficult, unfair and emotional time for me and my family,and we are looking forward so, respectfully, I won’t be commenting any further.”
- See more at: http://www.squamishchief.com/...sthash.ytbIgC52.dpuf

______________________________________________
Team Zoot
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [gregtay] [ In reply to ]
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gregtay wrote:
“Most importantly, I did not cheat and stand by my original statement. I continue to love sport and the joy of fair competition with myself and others

Well, she did have a fair competition with herself, they both went the same distance of course they were pretty evenly matched. Maybe that is even the fairest competition of them all, same equipment, same time to train, same genetics, etc.
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
advantages of the imperial system is that you can always divide a measurement in half.....which may sound kinda trite until you are doing some woodworking project and need to halve some random measurement.

Not. I'd much rather halve 65.2 cm than 25 11/16 inches. Which is easier to do in your head?

king of the road says you move too slow
KING OF THE ROAD SAYS YOU MOVE TOO SLOW
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
yes, i incurred legal fees. however, at the slowtwitch party in kona there were a lot of canadians there, and they all made a point of coming up to me and commenting on how they appreciated the moderation of this topic: to allow people to comment, but to disallow a lynch mob solely for the sport of the participants, at someone's expense, regardless of the deeds of the object.

to that end, i'd like to make sure this discussion threads that line. as to the WC result which still stands, there's an OpEd on the front page to that point (along with our coverage article on the ban itself).

Nice op-ed btw. I would look forward to the follow up if ITU fails to DQ her from the Weihai results!

Do we know when the next ITU Board Metting takes place? Do we assume that is when they will make their deccision or could they still be investigating?
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
gregtay wrote:

“Most importantly, I did not cheat and stand by my original statement. I continue to love sport and the joy of fair competition with myself and others


Well, she did have a fair competition with herself.....


Yes that is true and believes in her heart that her competition was equal to that of everyone else. That's the crux of it. It's completely delusional of course. But I figure to do something so bizarre (course cutting) you have to have a mental flaw of size you can drive a truck through. Ground zero you have to be able to sell yourself on manufactured truth in the first place, believe it without reservatoin to then make public statements, and convince others that it was all done legit.

I did look up "delusional disorder" - seems to fit the case imo.

The only way to end the fantasy based on the house of lost chips, is go back in (like taking a diver who has deompression sickness back down) and race - but for real.

I have this saying is slalom waterskiing, you can talk all day long about this and that, but the slalom course does not lie. In this case, the race course will present the truth. End of delusion.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
Last edited by: SharkFM: Dec 1, 15 14:55
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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"Do we know when the next ITU Board Metting takes place? Do we assume that is when they will make their deccision or could they still be investigating?"

on the 9th of september, they wrote back to me it, "is under review and will go to the technical committee." on sept 29, "Technical Committee discussed it in Chicago and all agreed that further investigation is required to draw any conclusion."

since then, i don't know. i've sent 2 emails to the ITU since then, one on the 22nd of October (on another topic), and one yesterday morning, no answer to either. maybe i've worn out my welcome.

look, there's a lot of ballast weighting this issue, and the issue is not julie miller. the issue, to me, is whether the ITU and its daughter federations are now so wholly involved in olympic racing, olympic development, getting new events into the games, getting into the winter games, that it just can't spend any time, doesn't care about, AG racing. if so, then we need to know this, and either force a change or race other races.

neither USA Triathlon nor the ITU likes it very much when i talk like this, because
deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, they know they are heavily reliant on AG money. but AG racing is just a big distraction, especially to the ITU, because it isn't funded by AG racing. however, it's daughter federations are, and the RDs who put on their WCS and world cup races - and pay that elite prize purse - are. so AG racers are a necessary evil for the ITU.

unfortunately every now and then they have to pay attention to AG racing, such as now, and i'm the big asshole because i'm bringing this up.
what the ITU doesn't understand is that if i didn't bring it up, people would lose faith in the federation system, and the ITU wouldn't know it until it's too late and all of a sudden they're overseeing modern pentathlon.

so, by forcing the ITU to look at this, and take it seriously, and do the right thing, i'm actually helping the ITU to be a proper custodian, which in the long run helps its overall olympic mission. but i doubt it sees it that way. rather, it's going to eventually make some kind of decision and say, "see, dan, we were working on this all along, you didn't need to throw a tantrum, you're just impatient and impolitic." and i'll say, "yeah, i guess so. i should've just trusted y'all's judgment." and all will be well.



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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They sound like democrats.

(sorry)
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [SharkFM] [ In reply to ]
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"I have this saying is slalom waterskiing, you can talk all day long about this and that, but the slalom course does not lie. In this case, the race course will present the truth. End of delusion."

I'm not sure if you meant this to be ironic or not but... funny saying for the situation considering this guy:


http://www.goode.com/images/Michaelscheats.pdf


J
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [nc452010] [ In reply to ]
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hey, who is it that holds up legislation? i feel your pain. just, you can't have it both ways.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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that is some heavy duty doodie right there
thanks Dan

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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
hey, who is it that holds up legislation?

You say that like it's a bad thing? :)

(I'm mostly......kidding....and I'm done. No harm intended)
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
"Do we know when the next ITU Board Metting takes place? Do we assume that is when they will make their deccision or could they still be investigating?"

on the 9th of september, they wrote back to me it, "is under review and will go to the technical committee." on sept 29, "Technical Committee discussed it in Chicago and all agreed that further investigation is required to draw any conclusion."

since then, i don't know. i've sent 2 emails to the ITU since then, one on the 22nd of October (on another topic), and one yesterday morning, no answer to either. maybe i've worn out my welcome.

look, there's a lot of ballast weighting this issue, and the issue is not julie miller. the issue, to me, is whether the ITU and its daughter federations are now so wholly involved in olympic racing, olympic development, getting new events into the games, getting into the winter games, that it just can't spend any time, doesn't care about, AG racing. if so, then we need to know this, and either force a change or race other races.

neither USA Triathlon nor the ITU likes it very much when i talk like this, because
deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, they know they are heavily reliant on AG money. but AG racing is just a big distraction, especially to the ITU, because it isn't funded by AG racing. however, it's daughter federations are, and the RDs who put on their WCS and world cup races - and pay that elite prize purse - are. so AG racers are a necessary evil for the ITU.

unfortunately every now and then they have to pay attention to AG racing, such as now, and i'm the big asshole because i'm bringing this up.
what the ITU doesn't understand is that if i didn't bring it up, people would lose faith in the federation system, and the ITU wouldn't know it until it's too late and all of a sudden they're overseeing modern pentathlon.

so, by forcing the ITU to look at this, and take it seriously, and do the right thing, i'm actually helping the ITU to be a proper custodian, which in the long run helps its overall olympic mission. but i doubt it sees it that way. rather, it's going to eventually make some kind of decision and say, "see, dan, we were working on this all along, you didn't need to throw a tantrum, you're just impatient and impolitic." and i'll say, "yeah, i guess so. i should've just trusted y'all's judgment." and all will be well.


Dan, ITU and Age group racing is like any other federation in the Olympic and their feeder grassroot system. See my comment on the front page article. ITU and most federations don't care about the bottom layers of the pyramid other than they need their existence to keep the elite top of the pyramid healthy, but they would much rather that someone else took care of the bottom layers of the pyramid. But they need to the bottom layers of the pyramid to create the next champions and they need it for overall numbers to get their respective governments to fund etc etc etc. It's like CEO's of corporatings C level execs and boards of directors. They just need employees to reach the overall goals in terms of revenue and EPS but by definition employees are a resource, like capital, inventory, property plant and equipment to get there. I think everyone needs to understand how these things work in the world and just accept that the likes of the ITU only need age group racing as a resource to pad numbers and revenue but they are not important for the core goals of the ITU. So as such I would rather give my money to the Ironman corporation guys (be it Providence Equity or Dalian Wanda) because I know I will get decent customer service and I know up front where my money is going to. I am totally OK with someone making money if they give me customer service and I am totally OK with being a slave to my company entity and help the shareholders and C level guys rich. That's how it works. I just don't like being "used" for fake reasons. ITU is not really up front with us.
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
"Do we know when the next ITU Board Metting takes place? Do we assume that is when they will make their deccision or could they still be investigating?"

on the 9th of september, they wrote back to me it, "is under review and will go to the technical committee." on sept 29, "Technical Committee discussed it in Chicago and all agreed that further investigation is required to draw any conclusion."

since then, i don't know. i've sent 2 emails to the ITU since then, one on the 22nd of October (on another topic), and one yesterday morning, no answer to either. maybe i've worn out my welcome.

look, there's a lot of ballast weighting this issue, and the issue is not julie miller. the issue, to me, is whether the ITU and its daughter federations are now so wholly involved in olympic racing, olympic development, getting new events into the games, getting into the winter games, that it just can't spend any time, doesn't care about, AG racing. if so, then we need to know this, and either force a change or race other races.

neither USA Triathlon nor the ITU likes it very much when i talk like this, because
deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, they know they are heavily reliant on AG money. but AG racing is just a big distraction, especially to the ITU, because it isn't funded by AG racing. however, it's daughter federations are, and the RDs who put on their WCS and world cup races - and pay that elite prize purse - are. so AG racers are a necessary evil for the ITU.

unfortunately every now and then they have to pay attention to AG racing, such as now, and i'm the big asshole because i'm bringing this up.
what the ITU doesn't understand is that if i didn't bring it up, people would lose faith in the federation system, and the ITU wouldn't know it until it's too late and all of a sudden they're overseeing modern pentathlon.

so, by forcing the ITU to look at this, and take it seriously, and do the right thing, i'm actually helping the ITU to be a proper custodian, which in the long run helps its overall olympic mission. but i doubt it sees it that way. rather, it's going to eventually make some kind of decision and say, "see, dan, we were working on this all along, you didn't need to throw a tantrum, you're just impatient and impolitic." and i'll say, "yeah, i guess so. i should've just trusted y'all's judgment." and all will be well.


That point about them eventually managing something like modern pentathlon is not that far off from the truth. If I talk to the teenagers who I used to coach exactly zero aspire to draft legal triathlon. They all want to build to half or full IM at some point (even though I discourage them). If I talk to adults exactly zero aspire to draft legal triathlon (maybe I am talking to the wrong women and men but I think I am talking to the 97 percentile group). So at best ITU is managing a small number of racers on a variant of our sport that age groupers happen to watch but don't do and don't care that much about, at worst they are managing a sport that has dynamics more close to modern pentathlon (just an elite circuit) than to draft free amateur and pro triathlon.
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Slowman wrote:
"Do we know when the next ITU Board Metting takes place? Do we assume that is when they will make their deccision or could they still be investigating?"

on the 9th of september, they wrote back to me it, "is under review and will go to the technical committee." on sept 29, "Technical Committee discussed it in Chicago and all agreed that further investigation is required to draw any conclusion."

since then, i don't know. i've sent 2 emails to the ITU since then, one on the 22nd of October (on another topic), and one yesterday morning, no answer to either. maybe i've worn out my welcome.

look, there's a lot of ballast weighting this issue, and the issue is not julie miller. the issue, to me, is whether the ITU and its daughter federations are now so wholly involved in olympic racing, olympic development, getting new events into the games, getting into the winter games, that it just can't spend any time, doesn't care about, AG racing. if so, then we need to know this, and either force a change or race other races.

neither USA Triathlon nor the ITU likes it very much when i talk like this, because
deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, they know they are heavily reliant on AG money. but AG racing is just a big distraction, especially to the ITU, because it isn't funded by AG racing. however, it's daughter federations are, and the RDs who put on their WCS and world cup races - and pay that elite prize purse - are. so AG racers are a necessary evil for the ITU.

unfortunately every now and then they have to pay attention to AG racing, such as now, and i'm the big asshole because i'm bringing this up.
what the ITU doesn't understand is that if i didn't bring it up, people would lose faith in the federation system, and the ITU wouldn't know it until it's too late and all of a sudden they're overseeing modern pentathlon.

so, by forcing the ITU to look at this, and take it seriously, and do the right thing, i'm actually helping the ITU to be a proper custodian, which in the long run helps its overall olympic mission. but i doubt it sees it that way. rather, it's going to eventually make some kind of decision and say, "see, dan, we were working on this all along, you didn't need to throw a tantrum, you're just impatient and impolitic." and i'll say, "yeah, i guess so. i should've just trusted y'all's judgment." and all will be well.



That point about them eventually managing something like modern pentathlon is not that far off from the truth. If I talk to the teenagers who I used to coach exactly zero aspire to draft legal triathlon. They all want to build to half or full IM at some point (even though I discourage them). If I talk to adults exactly zero aspire to draft legal triathlon (maybe I am talking to the wrong women and men but I think I am talking to the 97 percentile group). So at best ITU is managing a small number of racers on a variant of our sport that age groupers happen to watch but don't do and don't care that much about, at worst they are managing a sport that has dynamics more close to modern pentathlon (just an elite circuit) than to draft free amateur and pro triathlon.

I think draft legal AG triathlon is great.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
"Do we know when the next ITU Board Metting takes place? Do we assume that is when they will make their deccision or could they still be investigating?"

on the 9th of september, they wrote back to me it, "is under review and will go to the technical committee." on sept 29, "Technical Committee discussed it in Chicago and all agreed that further investigation is required to draw any conclusion."

since then, i don't know. i've sent 2 emails to the ITU since then, one on the 22nd of October (on another topic), and one yesterday morning, no answer to either. maybe i've worn out my welcome.

look, there's a lot of ballast weighting this issue, and the issue is not julie miller. the issue, to me, is whether the ITU and its daughter federations are now so wholly involved in olympic racing, olympic development, getting new events into the games, getting into the winter games, that it just can't spend any time, doesn't care about, AG racing. if so, then we need to know this, and either force a change or race other races.

neither USA Triathlon nor the ITU likes it very much when i talk like this, because
deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, they know they are heavily reliant on AG money. but AG racing is just a big distraction, especially to the ITU, because it isn't funded by AG racing. however, it's daughter federations are, and the RDs who put on their WCS and world cup races - and pay that elite prize purse - are. so AG racers are a necessary evil for the ITU.

unfortunately every now and then they have to pay attention to AG racing, such as now, and i'm the big asshole because i'm bringing this up.
what the ITU doesn't understand is that if i didn't bring it up, people would lose faith in the federation system, and the ITU wouldn't know it until it's too late and all of a sudden they're overseeing modern pentathlon.

so, by forcing the ITU to look at this, and take it seriously, and do the right thing, i'm actually helping the ITU to be a proper custodian, which in the long run helps its overall olympic mission. but i doubt it sees it that way. rather, it's going to eventually make some kind of decision and say, "see, dan, we were working on this all along, you didn't need to throw a tantrum, you're just impatient and impolitic." and i'll say, "yeah, i guess so. i should've just trusted y'all's judgment." and all will be well.


Sorry Dan, you are not the only person USAT thinks is a big asshole. I keep pushing on I think their 30% rule is a joke. I keep asking for their written justification that the AG committee did and gave to the board. Nothing! I keep pushing that USAT is reducing the TeamUSA size is a joke, and actually goes against the ITU needing these federation teams being as large as possible for the money we bring to the race. Without us, there is NO world elite races, period.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [Forsey] [ In reply to ]
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I know I or anyone can look up the details, but it seems bizarre for an organization to post news like this without actually saying what the athlete did in the same message.


http://www.jt10000.com/
Last edited by: jt10000: Dec 2, 15 3:26
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [jt10000] [ In reply to ]
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They said it in the first sentence ... "Triathlon Canada’s Disciplinary Committee has determined sanctions against member, Ms. Julie Miller, for breach of Triathlon Canada’s Code of Conduct."

The NFL does the same when they sanction an athlete. For example, When Ray Rice beat up his girlfriend, the NFL didn't release a press release saying that they were suspending him for beating his girlfriend. Instead, they said the same thing ... violating the leagues' code of conduct.

When Major League Baseball suspends someone for doping, they don't say that the suspension is because the athlete took EPO, cocaine, or whatever. They just say something like the athlete was suspended for violating the league's drug policy.

jt10000 wrote:
I know I or anyone can look up the details, but it seems bizarre for an organization to post news like this without actually saying what the athlete did in the same message.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [zoom] [ In reply to ]
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zoom wrote:
They said it in the first sentence ... "Triathlon Canada’s Disciplinary Committee has determined sanctions against member, Ms. Julie Miller, for breach of Triathlon Canada’s Code of Conduct."


The NFL does the same when they sanction an athlete. For example, When Ray Rice beat up his girlfriend, the NFL didn't release a press release saying that they were suspending him for beating his girlfriend. Instead, they said the same thing ... violating the leagues' code of conduct.

When Major League Baseball suspends someone for doping, they don't say that the suspension is because the athlete took EPO, cocaine, or whatever. They just say something like the athlete was suspended for violating the league's drug policy.

jt10000 wrote:
I know I or anyone can look up the details, but it seems bizarre for an organization to post news like this without actually saying what the athlete did in the same message.


Again, that's bad communication. It may be common, but it's not good. Communication is about conveying understanding, and that's not enough info to be meaningful to readers. It's pro forma.

PS - here is MLB saying, in a round-about way, the drugs someone was suspended for:
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/55963420/


http://www.jt10000.com/
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [jt10000] [ In reply to ]
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I don't disagree with you that they should state what the infraction was, but I think their language is the norm. It probably has to do with privacy issues and protecting themselves from potential lawsuits.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [zoom] [ In reply to ]
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There is no "probably" about this. Have you ever had to fire someone? Be as generic and nonspecific as possible. Those who care already know the why, those who don't care....don't care.
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
gregtay wrote:
Seems she isn't keeping entirely quiet:

http://www.vancouversun.com/...tory.html?rel=917166

From the Vancouver Sun today...


Miller maintained her innocence in the matter.
“Triathlon Canada’s decision is based on previous anecdotal and inaccurate information — there’s nothing new here,” she said in an email to The Vancouver Sun.
“I was contacted three days before the review and given 72 hours to defend myself. I have young children and a full-time job as well as my volunteer commitments, so this wasn’t fair or realistic.
“Most importantly, I did not cheat and stand by my original statement.”
In Miller’s original release — made in October — she maintained she lost her timing chips and that was ultimately the only reason for her disqualification.
“I wish I knew what happened to my timing chip during the Ironman event so there would be a reliable record of my race activity,” she said in the statement.
“Technology has bitten most of us at least once or twice, and usually at the worst possible time. This was one of those times. I’ve paid the price for that, in being disqualified and for not having a functioning chip at the finish.”
Miller says she plans to continue to train “daily for future events” and that she will make no further comments on the matter going forward.


I change my mind, she should not be banned for life. She should invited back to Ironman Canada. She can do the entire course with an escort. If she puts up a time that's even in the ballpark of her finish this year then shes off the hook.

Well since the evidence isn't new, she should have had plenty of time to mount a defense. I agree, finding 5 minutes to make a phone call to ask for an extension isn't hard to do.

It's still BS. She can train daily but not make a phone call to prevent a 3 year ban on competing? How stupid does she think we all are?

I'm never lost a chip ever in almost 20 years of racing. If I had, I would have noticed it immediately and gotten a replacement in transition or at least let a course marshal know...specifically for this reason. I also had a good relationship with my fellow races, I'd have witnesses and they would vouch for me, not turn on me. Total crap.


TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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She just has really bad luck with chips. Why do you gotta hate on the habitually unlucky?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Julie Miller 2 year ban from Triathlon Canada [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
She just has really bad luck with chips. Why do you gotta hate on the habitually unlucky?

Exactly, and Mike Rossi is claiming an 'equipment malfunction' in a 5k this past Saturday. Could happen.
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