Woohoo, DFW Tri Club getting some attention!.... For all the wrong reasons. I train with alot of the group and have not come across Mr. Rodgers. His being from Arlington and me being less than half his age might factor into that.

Just wanted to chime in that I always enjoy Dallas stereotyping as it mostly holds true, every. single. time.

Apparently, he wrote this article. Provides some additional personal background.

http://blog.norway.com/...-endurance-athletes/

In my opinion, the easiest way to reduce (notice I said reduce and not stop because you are never going to stop it) drafting, is to raise the penalty. Drafting penalties should be 10-15 min and possibly more.

Perhaps there should be an additional drafting rule for blatant drafting (packs, group rides, sucking wheel, etc) where its 15 min or so. The current drafting penalty could remain (not dropping back in time, failure to pass, etc) for those smaller infractions.

This would be a judgment call but its just as judgmental as the current rules.

In my opinion, the easiest way to reduce (notice I said reduce and not stop because you are never going to stop it) drafting, is to raise the penalty. Drafting penalties should be 10-15 min and possibly more.

Perhaps there should be an additional drafting rule for blatant drafting (packs, group rides, sucking wheel, etc) where its 15 min or so. The current drafting penalty could remain (not dropping back in time, failure to pass, etc) for those smaller infractions.

This would be a judgment call but its just as judgmental as the current rules.

holy cow, are we saying that the author Tom Rodgers is the same as the drafting Tom Rodgers # 933?!?!?!

This is easier than you think, and has been suggested before. Use a diffuse-mode photoeye running off a DC 12V power source attached to the rider's handlebars, facing forward. they come with their own built-in LED's to indicate when they're "on" - i.e. when the beam shows that an object is present in front of it. Tying the output in to a small system to store total time when the eye shows blocked should be easy for the right type of engineer (which I'm not; I'm mechanical)

At the end of the bike leg, the devices could be removed in T2 by race staff. Drafting penalty could then be assigned based on total infraction time.

I'd say "piece of cake," but development projects never are. (Like how does it deal with rain?) It does sound like a fun project, but the first prototype is a thousands-of-dollars development path. I'm sure final cost could be brought down to sub-$100 range - which seems fine given that they should be multi-season reusable.

No, I did not tell referees or athletes that drafting was allowed at any point in the race.

Draft marshals are instructed to be patient at the start of races, but to aggressively enforce blatant drafting early, and that the enforcement of drafting starts at the mount line.

As someone mentioned earlier in this thread - there were drafting penalties issued within the first few miles of IMFL.

If Google were presented with this problem, they would solve it technically.

Invent a proximity sensor that tracks the sensor's directional proximity to all other sensors within range, as well as the current speed and directional heading. Store this data at 1 second or finer intervals. Load these sensors through a collection system that downloads their data and runs an algorithm to identify violations: drafting, passing on right (blocking would be tough to enforce)

Effectively the entire bike could be recreated precisely with such data collected from all sensors on all bikes. Implementing penalties algorithmically from these data would get rid of all discretion, but rules should not include discretion; they are either broken or not broken. Also, algorithms could implement more complex rules, such as if the surrounding density of riders in an area at a given point in time is such that 7m spacing is impossible or near impossible, then 5m spacing is the limit at that point. Or, if the total number of seconds in violation exceeds 300 for a rider, then a DQ is issued for blatant violation. The sky is the limit when the data exists.

Such proximity sensors do not exist, but if a tech company with an R&D budget were presented with this problem, this is how they would go at it. Not by throwing an increasing number of guys on the back of motorcycles.

there is a way to have no drafting without any person or any technological innovation watching

DQ at second penalty?

Crafty cheaters would likely still succeed, as the officials can't be everywhere at once - working together when alone, working apart when the race marshall shows up. However - a calibrated device distributed to all racers removes the doubt - even for those who want to "push the envelope" or may not know what illegal drafting distances look like.

The penalties for robbing a 7-11 are already pretty high, but it still happens. Video surveillance cuts the incidence way down, doesn't it?

On the other hand - modification of the race start procedure (randomizing the swim start / going to TT starts) probably would have a good non-drafting effect. Let's say the pros or top AG'ers (by previous USAT scores) are not allowed to start the swim within 4 minutes of each other, or even 6. The issue then becomes you're not racing with your competition. Plus over a 112 mile ride, 4-6 minutes can vanish pretty quickly.

What secret sauce are you proposing?

Not to lose focus on the topic on hand. (Number 931 Tom Rodgers)

But..... I would volunteer to be an on course draft marshal at an IM or Half IM while riding the bike. I would gladly volunteer to just ride the bike course of either IM Maryland or Eagleman, catching any obvious drafters, ie less than 1 bike length back for longer than 2 min. I'm a strong enough rider to slowly pass groups or people.

I think having a few rumored on the bike draft marshals, it would scare a few racers to ride clean.

the secret sauce that I'm proposing is for WTC to enforce its own rules. The concept of law and order

Ok I will jump in and also ID myself, Steve Smith USAT SMW 50-54, retired Army, San Antonio texas, 30 years of racing. Every region has a guy or guys in the region with a reputation for some questionoable tactics. TR is the guy in the SMW that we all kind of know will suck your wheel a little longer than the legal limit. Not sure why he does this, he is a very strong racer and has some great results, not as blatent as KM wearing a helmet mirror but has great ears for USAT motorcycle. Every year I have the same situation at Olympic and sprints in the region, out of the water before him and at some point on the bike he motors by, either grabbing my wheel for a while or hanging on to some other younger guys wheel. I have kind of just accepted that we just have people like this in our sport and you just roll your eyes and don't think much about it. Unfortunatly for TR he is a big presence in our region, writing columns in Texas Runner Triathlete, coaching etc.. and he should probably re-evaluate his tactics, especially because he does not need it, he can compete clean and still do well.

I raced against him (Masters) in Aug at the Arkansas State Sprint Champ

https://www.nolimitstiming.com/results/default.aspx?event=28992


He had the best bike split of anyone and i rode "extra-legally" behind him most of the bike leg and not once did he try drafting anyone.


Chatted with him after the race and yes did like to talk about himself, but so what.

I think the nature of this thread (and the many other drafting threads) shows that it is very difficult to do so, despite the best intentions. Enforcement seems to just be too difficult, and human nature doesn't seem to lend support to the 'concept' theory. It may be the cheapest option though, but I don't know that marshals on motorcycles are free. Some skill is required there - not sure I want just random volunteers on motorcycles serving as marshals.

With regard to calling out drafters after the fact - this is a dangerous path and I believe amounts to a no-trial lynch mob. Calling them out here MIGHT lead to some public embarrassment but (hopefully) no more vigilante justice than that. As far as the WTC handing out penalties after the fact based on an internet forum - I can see that as being more than a little problematic in the world of "he said, she said."

Finally - those lobbying for loosening of the drafting rules. Fine. Identify yourself as a draft-legal competitor (red bike number?) and have at it. In keeping with the law-n-order approach - if you're racing as non-draft and get caught in a race that includes a draft-legal class, then your finish automatically gets classified with draft-legal finishers. How's that?

If someone has the best bike split in a race, exactly who is he going to draft?