HAHA, seriously, after winning 7 straight Tours and having some sort of allegations lobbed at Lance every year I could see how Andreu forgot about it.

Maybe he was watching TLC and Overhaulin' came on and he thought "Wait, that's that guy Lance, that hospital room, drugs...it all adds up!!!"

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Portside Athletics Blog

Or maybe he considered Armstrong a close friend and had some loyalty toward him, even years later. And he also knew how influential Armstrong is in US cycling (and the organization USA Cycling) and was worried about affecting his current and future ability to earn a living in the sport?

If you read the transcript on NPR, you can also see how Frankie admits that he and his wife had some arguments about the incident afterwards.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5508863

(on a Mac, so can't make the link clickable)

http://www.npr.org/....php?storyId=5508863

Just helping ;-)

Those are things he COULD have said....here is what he DID say (from the interview yesterday, which you'll have to shell out your own $3.95 to get the whole text of):

"GOLDMAN: This incident allegedly happened in 1996 and now, you know, the public is hearing about this 10 years later. And one of the questions I received, I think from a listener, was if it was so important, if it’s such a significant thing, why didn’t Betsy and/or Frankie come out earlier?

Mr. ANDREU: Lance was on his deathbed, 50 percent chance of survival. And you know we were friends of his and there to support him. And when he was speaking to the doctor, he was fighting for his life. The guy was going to do anything he could to be able to save his life and I respected that and I wanted to see him live and move on. And so it wasn’t something that we brought up then, and after a few years, it just kind of went away and we actually forgot about it..."

So, they forgot about it until they were subpoaenaed in 2004, then they remembered...nothing spurred their memories in the intervening years. 8 years after the fact, however, after forgetting, they remember it like it was yesterday. Of course, it never found its way into Lance's medical records, so you kind of have to wonder why the doctors asked about it in the first place. I guess it must have gone like this:

Dr.: "Lance have you ever used performance enhancing drugs? Please ignore the presence of at least 4 other people in the room as you consider answering this VERY personal medical and professional question."

Lance: "No problem, Doc, I'll be happy to admit I've doped in front of a room full of people. I've used EPO and testosterone and growth hormone and cortisone."

Dr." Hmmm...yesss....well....no need to consider the implications of any of THOSE substances just because you have metastisized, life threatening cancer and you're facing chemo and radiation. I'll just write down "NO," OK?"

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Reverisco!

http://www.npr.org/....php?storyId=5508863

being deposed is never fun. it forces folks to struggle between loyalty and perjury. for some that is a hard choice, for others it is not.

but if you actually listen to the full NPR story (link above) rather than just read the transcript, ya don't have to be a rocket scientist to gather what really happened ...

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Where would you want to swim ?

Maybe he didn't consider Armstrong's admission at the time to be a big deal. It is possible that Andreu has seen Armstrong get injected with all kinds of stuff and that is what sticks in his mind. An admission of doping in a semi-private setting probably never struck him as significant.

[reply]Or maybe he considered Armstrong a close friend and had some loyalty toward him, even years later. [/reply]

Or maybe Frankie's wife sees a cash cow.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

"Maybe he didn't consider Armstrong's admission at the time to be a big deal. It is possible that Andreu has seen Armstrong get injected with all kinds of stuff and that is what sticks in his mind. An admission of doping in a semi-private setting probably never struck him as significant. "

That's stretching things a bit, but the main issue here is that Frankie and his wife would have never testified if they weren't forced to. They both finally agreed to a deposition in Michigan and were told their deposition would not be made public. To turn this around into a Frankie vs. Lance thing (or even worse - Frankie's wife vs. Lance) is absurd, the main question should be WHY did the Equipe know about Frankies suposed confidential testimony? Who told them and more to the point what is that persons' objective?

here is frankie actually talking about it (click "listen" on the very top button)

http://www.npr.org/....php?storyId=5516287

to me, the timing and motivation is pretty obvious. it is clear that frankie never wanted to go into this at all, privately or publicly. but he and his wife were both forced to testify under oath (penalty of perjury) about lance's admission in the hospital room.

but then, of course, lance, in his great wisdom, starts attacking the credibility of frankie's wife, so that puts frankie in a postition where he must defend his and his wife's honor and defend the fact that they both told the truth. end of story.

financial motivations !?!? you guys are hilarious ...

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Where would you want to swim ?

There are lots of fishy things about this, on both sides. I fail to see any reason the Andreus would lie under oath on this. On the other hand, why would Lance's docs lie under oath? And wouldn't this sort of thing be in his medical records? Also, why would the arbritration court side with Lance and force that company to pay his bonus if they didn't feel the evidence was on Lance's side? Its all very odd.

Spot

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

[reply]financial motivations !?!? you guys are hilarious ...[/reply]

Give me a break! That's what the whole issue is about....cash! Wake up and see how stirring up the pot and keeping LA in the news adds interest in a waning sport. Pro sports is a different world than you and I compete in.....

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

oh yeah, i forgot. frankie and his wife are in big conspiracy (with lance, trek, cervelo, shimano, campagnolo, hed, zipp, et. al., of course) to revive public interest in this "waning sport."

thanks for setting me straight.

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Where would you want to swim ?

Didn't say that...you did. Just look at the big picture. Pretty simple.

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Gary Geiger
http://www.geigerphoto.com Professional photographer

TEAM KiWAMi NORTH AMERICA http://www.kiwamitri.com, Rudy Project http://www.rudyprojectusa.com, GU https://guenergy.com/shop/ ; Salming World Ambassador; https://www.shopsalming.com

seriously, please fill us in on the whole big picture that i am missing.

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Where would you want to swim ?

Statement from Lance's attorney. Makes it sound like there is alot going on behind the scenes.

http://www.thepaceline.com/members/lancenewsitem.aspx?cid=2430

That does not sound like great testimony. If they had written something in a journal at the time it happened, then their testimony would have been much stronger in court. As I previously said, people can remember poorly, mishear things and/or take conversations out of context.

As in many cases, witnesses often have conflicting stories of events, especially ones in the distant past. Memory often has a way of tricking the mind into believing things that never happened, moreso over time.

I'd be inclined to weight the doctors statements above the Andreus simply because they take notes and record medically relevant information. It doesn't mean the Andreus are liars, just the evidenciary value of their testimony is less.

Does anyone think it odd that a doctor would ask Lance such an important medical history question not before, but AFTER HAVING PERFORMED BRAIN AND TESTICULAR SURGERY ON HIM?

Maybe it's just me, but I'd expect a qualified doctor to get a patient's medical history out of the way before performing surgery to remove tumors from a patient's brain.

The whole scenario is stinky.

We all may do well to consider that any analysis/criticism of the circumstances is done from a perspective that does not include all the information.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Call me simple, but it would seem to be a very easy thing to do to find the two "mystery doctors" that weren't his oncologists and other specialists, and ask them what Lance said. For that matter, find out who the hell they were in the first place! It seems totally bizarre for Armstrong to deny, deny, deny, before and after his cancer at every turn that he ever took PEDs, and then blatantly answer affirmatively to two unknown doctors in a room full of witnessess the one time. Even if he took PEDs, even if only before his cancer, the scenario just doesn't compute. On the other hand, if he was asked if he was aware of the drugs that he was being prescribed to recover from the cancer, and the cancer drug regime and/or radiation treatments, that may have been what the witnesses in the room heard. Those drugs would also be in his medical records, if Armstrong was inclined to reveal them.

So, like everyone else on this thread, I have no real information to add, only speculation. But some people tend to offer their speculation as being so obvious that it should be considered as facts. Those discussions are far more suited for the Lavender room.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)

We all may do well to consider that any analysis/criticism of the circumstances is done from a perspective that does not include all the information.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

This is one big can of worms.

But let’s look at this, so here we have Lance in the hospital he’s got cancer that mostly is going to kill him he feels like shit and a Doctor asks him is he’s taken PED, now this boy is a smart ass and reels off a list of the worst stuff he can think of and after give the Doc a wink. And so the Andreus here the question and the answer but can’t see Lance, what do they come away with? They come away with what they could hear but not the real answer. This is speculation but this could have happened.

We don’t have the whole story here, this is tabloid stuff!

Dan…

What next Lance has baby with a space alien with photos!

Yeah, another person conspiring to trap Lance and Lance is completely innocent and obviously the victim of ANOTHER smear campaign. This must make a few dozen people, all out to get him.

Let's face it. With Lance's legal team and the public sympathy because of his cancer fight, he is untouchable, in America.

I would have thought with all the recent allegations of pro drug use, the constant accusations from very credible sources, etc., some people would at least admit the possibility that Lance is not the angel he professes to be and that maybe, just maybe, the dozens who have come forward risking their own careers may have a point.

But, I was wrong. Lance is like teflon, nothing sticks. If Lance came out and admitted drug use, you guys would still proclaim his innocence.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

to me, the timing and motivation is pretty obvious. it is clear that frankie never wanted to go into this at all, privately or publicly. but he and his wife were both forced to testify under oath (penalty of perjury) about lance's admission in the hospital room.

They weren't subpoenaed on the off-chance that they might have heard an admission in response to a doctor's question. They were subpoenaed because the insurance company already knew what they would say. How did the insurance company know this? In all likelihood, one of them had already leaked the alleged admission. I suspect his wife spoke with the LA Confidential reporter and others about the incident. The insurance company atty's either found it out or deduced it, spoke with her, and then subpoenaed her. If that's the case, its disingenuous of her to try to claim that she only testified because she had no choice. And if she's being disningenuous about that, where does her credibility stand elsewhere?

I'll admit my point doesn't have much to do with their credibility. It's only designed to counter the argument that they were brought into this against their will.

It should, however, be noted that Carmichael has said that he and his wife were present and that the admission never took place. Of couse, Carmichael has a financial stake, and he wasn't under oath.

We all may do well to consider that any analysis/criticism of the circumstances is done from a perspective that does not include all the information.


Winner for the understatement of the year/decade/century. From my perspective, I don't think anyone here on Slowtwitch has even 1% of all the information. But there sure are a heck of a lot of conclusions being made, both ways.

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Behold the turtle! He makes progess only when he sticks his neck out. (James Bryant Conant)
GET OFF THE F*%KING WALL!!!!!!! (Doug Stern)
Brevity is the soul of wit. (William Shakespeare)