how about the next time you ride with Frankie you ask him and post his reply for us? then we might have all the information:)

" We all may do well to consider that any analysis/criticism of the circumstances is done from a perspective that does not include all the information. "

Considered. It's still stinky.

We may also do well to consider that there may be additional, on-going circumstances that may be influenced by the potential release of more information.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

great...Frankie is going to sue....can you get him to tell us his side of the story?

Tom - sounds like you know more information that you can disclose given your relationship with the Andreu's - correct?

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- Matt

Since you know him, can you get him to give you copies of the depositions that were conducted in the arbitration proceedings and post them on your website. That would certainly give us more information from which to draw conclusions.

You can read transcripts of the deposition via the link in post #5 of this thread.

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"What the mind can conceive and believe, the mind and body can achieve; and those who stay will be champions."

I'm writing a (very difficult to write) editorial about this on our website right now. Should be up in a few days.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Thank you and I am sure it will be interesting and lend some insight to the matter. Appreciate your posts.

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- Matt

great...Frankie is going to sue....can you get him to tell us his side of the story?

His side of the story doesn't matter. Lance is always right and everyone else is always wrong, that's all we need to know. Slinging mud at highly respected athletes (Lemond and now Andreu) is just part of the process we go through to protect our heroes.

Sarcasm off.

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__________________________________________________

You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Greg X is dead on about Andreu's deposition. Your safest legal response is to say that you can't recall.

Some of the speculation here is pretty simplistic, the easiest things to change are hospital documents (these aren't exactly secured under the scrutiny of the NSA or a Grand Jury indictment).

Go to cyclingnews.com and read the full statements from Armstrong's lawyers. Pretty damning stuff on the part of the Andreu's (particularly Mrs. Andreu). If true, she is a nut case and this saga only gets wierder from here.

Damn, I would just like to get to this week in the year (the one before the TDF), and not have to get this same story. Oh well, I will just have to ride my bike and ignore the internet until the race actually starts...

Jack

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

BINGO!

You hit the nail right on the head.

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Lewis

And if she's being disningenuous about that, where does her credibility stand elsewhere?

How many people have to be discredited as non-credible until there is some credibility? This is the same issue with every single person who has ever come forward with things about Lance. It's quite amazing that so many people lack credibility.

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You sir, are my new hero! - Trifan 11/13/2008

Casey, you are a wise man - blueraider_mike 11/13/2008

Casey, This is an astute observation. - Slowbern 11/17/2008

Of course, you've completely disregarded the very next line of my post where I point out that it really doesn't have much to do with her credibilty, that it only addresses the claim that she's would have preferred to keep it all private.

I understand the point you're making. I believe there a good deal of "folk evidence" (for lack of a better word) that Lance doped. In a non-legal forum, it's perfectly reasonable to conclude from this evidence that he did dope. There's also a good deal out there discrediting much of this "folk evidence." So I also think it's perfectly reasonable to withhold judgment or to give him the benefit of the doubt pending something that is really sollid.

I think the Andreu testimony is a very good example, to the extent we are aware of all the facts, of a situation where there's good points to be made on both sides.

I suspect you'd respond by pointing out that the cumulative effect of all this, despite the fact that each piece could be persuasively rebutted, adds to a very strong case against him. I think that's a perfectly legitimate conclusion. But I don't believe it's any more legitimate entirely dismissing each piece once it's rebutted.

It's quite amazing that so many people lack credibility.

Yes, it is. The Carmichaels lack credibility. The Oakley rep lacks credibility. The doctor lacks credibilty. etc. It works both ways.

"Name the most unlikely user of anabolic steroids on the Tour... say, the 'Chicken'?"

You misunderstand the use of anabolic steroids in cycling. Cyclists use them in lower doses than bodybuilders to improve recovery from hard training, not for muscle building. I would not be surprised at all if it came out that Rasmussen used anabolics, human growth hormone and EPO next year, same goes for Basso, McEwan, Petacchi, Boonen etc

On the Lance front it is not possible to say based on this case of "she said, he said" to determine Armstrong's guilt. There have been a lot of people making allegations which means either he has been doping but able to get away with it, or he has the kind of personality that pisses people off so much that they make allegations, or a little of both.

KR

Not sure about cycling, but the bodybuilders who took anabolics would stack (combine both oral and injectable) and cycle their dosages to reduce side effects. A rider I know who raced in Europe said the doping riders would combine both together, but didnt know the actual names they were taking.

Its not really the type of anabolic steroid as much as it is the dosage. In bodybuilding dosages may often be 100 times or more of the medical dosage. I would imagine cycling dosage to be smaller. They help to blunt the testosterone reduction from hard training.

If you want to know the exact one I guess you will have to ask Vandenbroucke ;-)

KR

Cycling had a huge scandal in 98 with the Festina affair. Now we have another with Operación Puerto.
I think it's asinine to think/hope a rider who dominates a "dirty" sport can be clean.

Look at baseball. We know there is a steroid problem. We see a men doing things (hitting homeruns) like we've never seen before. How can
anyone think they're not juicing? Puh-leese!

Did you see the list of shit Tyler Hamilton was on? He was like a walking Pharmacy. Now you want to believe someone who dominated him was clean? Ya-shur.

They all dope. It's a level playing field. Fuck it, let em ride.

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Lewis

Usually when you have a lot of people telling the same story under oath there is at least a grain of truth to it. Conspiracies rarely hold together under questioning.

Stephanie McIlvain has some splainin to do!

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You call yourself a Christian, I call you hypocrite. You call yourself a patriot well, I think you're full of s**t

NeoCon by the Rolling Stones

I think in this case there are more people denying, so maybe it's the Andreu's who have the splainin to do. As far as I know they're the only two implicating Lance. Unless you include Greg pure-as-the-driven-snow Lemond, but he wasn't in the room and doesn't really count.

Given the scenario isn't all that unbelievable for someone to say "I don't recall" or "not that I heard".

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Lewis

   

Great point about the steroids. I made an earlier comment that the drug use does not yeild results. It can allow for the recovery you mentioned, but the 8 hour days still need to be put in. The hard training and talent still need to be there.



Taking sides on this issue does not yeild a winner on either side.

http://www.dailypeloton.com/...yarticle.asp?pk=3297

http://nas-track.com/...S-TRACK!_BbandHi.swf

http://www.nas-track.com/video.php

Partnering with one does yeild a winner however!



-SD

"The papers neglected to frame Betsy Andreu's testimony in the context of the case: she conferred with and assisted the insurance company, she voluntarily travelled to Dallas on her own to testify against Armstrong at trial (the panel had no power to subpoena her appearance at the trial), she conferred with the Lemonds over 100 times during approximately ten months during 2004 and 2005 in a collective effort to attack Armstrong."

Yep, it looks like they had to drag her into the courtroom kicking and screaming.

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Lewis

reply to parkito, post # 20

parkito,

It may or may not be easy to locate those two doctors, but there may be a slight obstacle regarding doctor/patient confidentiality and what the legal system cannot compell a physician to divulge recarding conversations with his patient.

How quickly these rights/priviledges are forgotten when someone wants to know something that was discussed in a "protected" situation.

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Ben Cline


Better to aspire to Greatness and fail, than to not challenge one's self at all, and succeed.