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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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kjmcawesome wrote:
it looks like the CRR trumps any aero benefits until you reach higher yaws:

or is it also at really high speeds?

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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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kjmcawesome wrote:
Would you think the more narrow Attack would make it a faster overall front tire than the Cotton Turbo on a wide rim? I have a couple new Attacks and am trying to determine if I should just buy a Cotton Turbo for the rear or if it would be better to run them front and rear.

Probably not. I just happened to roller test a brand new Attack this past weekend, and it doesn't roll as well as the GP4000S 23C. I haven't gotten the results added to the blog yet.

The Force tire, on the other hand, rolled REALLY well...but it measures out at 25mm wide even on my narrow Mavic Open Pro rim.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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I'm baffled. Why would the 24mm SW cotton be good at low yaw? Considering how terrible high tpi glued-tread tires tend to be (Vittoria who manufactures these), the tread design would need to have some really special boundary layer effects.
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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]
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ericM40-44 wrote:
kjmcawesome wrote:
it looks like the CRR trumps any aero benefits until you reach higher yaws:


or is it also at really high speeds?

Nope.


http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
I'm baffled. Why would the 24mm SW cotton be good at low yaw? Considering how terrible high tpi glued-tread tires tend to be (Vittoria who manufactures these), the tread design would need to have some really special boundary layer effects.

That chart he linked to is power to overcome aero drag AND rolling resistance.

As I've said before, really low Crr can make up for a LOT of "aero sins" ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Tom A. wrote:
Probably not. I just happened to roller test a brand new Attack this past weekend, and it doesn't roll as well as the GP4000S 23C. I haven't gotten the results added to the blog yet.

The Force tire, on the other hand, rolled REALLY well...but it measures out at 25mm wide even on my narrow Mavic Open Pro rim.

Such a tease ;)


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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Damn, wrong answer! What am I supposed to do with these two brand new Attacks I got a great deal on and took 2 months to arrive??

Also thank you. You just saved me some watts.

/kj

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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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kjmcawesome wrote:
Damn, wrong answer! What am I supposed to do with these two brand new Attacks I got a great deal on and took 2 months to arrive??

Also thank you. You just saved me some watts.

Well we haven't seen the RR data or the aero data. Others have tested the Attack with good success. It is narrower, so all thing being equal you would think it should have a higher RR.


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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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I've tested 3 fast Attacks and one slow one. The slow one was a little worse than the typical GP4000, but I consider that an anomaly. It is the same tire basically, only a little smaller and with thinner tread. More often than not, that should give it lower Crr. But there is some randomness, so if you don't test them yourself, just take your best shot.
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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Pity the Conti SS is not on that graph too...
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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [kjmcawesome] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder how its' curability and puncture protection compares. Usually you give that up a little when CRR improves.


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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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motoguy128 wrote:
I wonder how its' curability and puncture protection compares. Usually you give that up a little when CRR improves.

As I have mentioned before, it is much better than people expect. I can't tell you the number of SS I have worn down to the cords. I have even worn them down to the cords in races. This winter I threw a pair of SS on in Tucson (thorny, rough, hot) and I tried my best to wear out an SS. No flats over 4-5 months of riding. IMO, I would much rather go with a blown-rubber tire over a cotton-covered clincher. If you really wanted a puncture strip then go with the grand prix tt. Kienle goes 4000s up front and grand prix tt on back btw.

Btw, for Ironman Louisville I went with a 20mm Conti SS tire up front and 23mm Conti SS tire on the back. I have no relationship with Continental, just like their tires.


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Re: Fastest Clincher Tire [blitzkrieg] [ In reply to ]
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blitzkrieg wrote:
I worded it that way because I was under the impression that latex tubes are more susceptible to flats. Is that not the case?

I remember doing a quick Google search on that and it gave me mixed results.
Another anecdotal evidence of this is the fact in this last race... At least 50% went thru the same giant pothole and either crashed, lost their bottles or tilted their aero bars down...but very few actually punctured a tube ..forget BOTH tubes like I did!!



Got this article from "Bicycling" Magazine, interesting how tubeless tire manufacturers claims are not backed up by this little real world test, and latex does improve Crr
http://www.bicycling.com/...go-tubeless?page=0,1


Bikes and Gear Features


How Does Tubeless Compare?
Lab tests comparing tubeless road tires with standard clinchers have not been conclusive—perhaps partly because they’ve been conducted in a lab instead of out in the real world. The only consistent finding we can draw from existing studies is that companies making and selling tubeless products find them to have lower rolling resistance than tires with tubes. Companies not on the bandwagon say those claims are bunk. To help form our own opinion, we performed one of the oldest evaluations in the cycling industry—a roll-down test—on tubeless tires from Hutchinson and Maxxis, comparing them to a standard tire from Michelin. It was a basic experiment: Starting from a dead stop at a specific spot on a hill, we coasted down until the bike stopped, then measured the distance traveled and quantified speed via GPS. We controlled as best as we could variables such as rider and position and used equal pressure (100 psi, front and rear) on the same wheels (Giant P-SLR-1) mounted on a Pinarello Prince test bike. We completed all testing in a short time span to minimize any effect from changing weather and did six trials with each combination to try to average out variables beyond our control, such as gusts of wind.


Tire Distance
( meters) Average
Speed Ave
Speed Max.
(Km/H)
Michelin Pro4 Service Course w/ latex tube 200.05 21.35 34.20
Hutchinson Fusion 3 RT 195.63 21.28 33.54
Maxxis Padrone 194.03 21.26 33.54
Michelin Pro4 Service Course w/ butyl tube 193.99 20.68 33.18

Conclusion
Although we don’t advise that you consider the results of our limited test completely conclusive, we think the broader findings are interesting and more than likely reflect real-world use: With a latex tube, a top-of-the-line clincher was fastest; the tubeless tires were grouped tightly, reflecting, we believe, the current lack of variety in products; heavier butyl tires with clinchers were the slowest combination; and, most significantly, the differences in speeds are not yet so great that a rider can’t compensate for

res, non verba
Last edited by: RoYe: Aug 28, 14 9:51
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