I agree. I have no idea what they are really trying to do since their press release was so lacking in details.

I would love to see the ITU add Aquabike to worlds, and USAT to add to the AG Nationals. Get rid of the Aquathlon, no one cares. I can hardly find any races doing it. But in my area, the Aquabike has really taken off.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

The thought of even 900 AG athletes doing DL at World's and the headaches involves makes me fear for the sanity of those ITU officials. How that goes down without it being a cluster is beyond me.


Now I think there can be locally/regionally run AG DL races and it be a whole lot less cluster. Here in the US this isn't going to take off, so it'll be manageable.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Just goes back to the bike setup. If it is a single loop, then things would be easy? If lots of multiple loops, no idea how they would do it.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

2009 Worlds on the Gold Coast was basically draft legal, logistics won't be an issue. If the US AG athletes don't get on board with this early you'll get left behind. This will be big in Aus (especially in VIctoria and Queensland) as the current sprint distance courses are set up to handle this type of racing.

Explain how it went down with the different wave starts, lap out rules, etc. Or was this a 1 lap rule.

I think the right athletes will be on board with it. BUT in order to be on board, you gotta have races for people to do. You cant really have 1 nationals and then think we are going to do well at worlds. You gotta get the races out to people, and that's currently where there is a roadblock. No one has taken the chance to do it other than a few places.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

That is a silly thing to say in a thread where we can "decide" the rules.


If you've never done a DL race, you don't know anything about DL racing, and you have no intention of doing a DL race, why are you posting in a thread that has the potential to steer the direction of AG DL racing?

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__________________________

I tweet!

Yep, I did that race and I agree, it was for all practical purposes, draft legal. I believe it was 2 laps also? And it was fun, top athletes, and safe, and on TT bikes. (Yep, folks can get hurt at any type of bike race)

We see some that think (especially in the US) it has to be a certain way. And boy if one tries to suggest there might be a different way this could work, well, just look at this thread. :o)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I have done DL legal races. You can look my results up.

We shall see what the real rules are once they get posted on the ITU website. Depending on the final format, this may interest some, and not others. Pretty simple.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Draft legal races have been around in several countries for a while. They manage to do them without too much carnage.
The common theme in all of them is you will need a new bike if you want to race draft legal.
However I think it should be noted that ITU Pro races tend to be on closed courses that are not going to accommodate 2000 participants.
So getting lapped either on the ride or the run cannot apply to draft legal age group races.
There's not much point to deep rimmed wheels either.

The perfect example of a race that can already accommodate thousands without difficulty, with both sexes on the course at the same time, is the Esprit in Montreal.
In one day they race on a closed course everything from IM distance, to Sprints.
They start waves steadily all day, with racers from every distance on the course at the same time.
It's always been a bit of a draft fest, slingshot heaven, for some, but there's no carnage.
Changing over to a draft legal format would probably cause no great hardship.
As for lapping and counting, we have enough electronics available to deal with that, most people can count to five and for longer races they announce.
It's been working for years.

I would be sad to see all races convert to draft legal, simply because the individuality of the sport would be lost, but for others it would be a welcome change.
But I would really miss my toys.

It's been shown repeatedly that your opinions and assumptions are incorrect, on this and many other topics. You still don't see the difference between 'basically' and draft-legal. It's like your still holding onto the idea that age group worlds will have two categories and allow TT bikes in the draft legal version. And somehow you think they will get rid of age groups and limit the field to 100 people. Ty reading without your personal blinders.

I am still waiting to see on the ITU site what the full drafting rules are.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

FYI, ITU Rule 5.2 States for Draft Legal races, they follow UCI road race rules, aka standard road bikes (you can ride a road set-up TT Frame, as long as you can get the saddle into a legal position vis a vis the BB)...

The ITU rulebook does not have Elite and AG rules when it comes to competition rules, just draft-legal non draft legal... assuming it's a sanctioned DL race, I would assume it follows ITU DL rules... for the bike segment.

There are specific Elite uniform rules and Course rules, which wouldn't necessarily apply to AG DL races, but in section 5 Bike rules of the rule book, it's just DL and Non DL in some of the sections for the differences...

http://www.triathlon.org/...14v2-highlighted.pdf for the latest edition on the ITU rule book (updated in Feb 2014).

The rules have never changed with draft legal racing. But I'm curious your a guy who's raced an DL event on TT bike with over 300 people in it on a 3 lap bike course (crit style multi loop course). You said it was fine, so what's your hold up with this. What's the biggest issue for you?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Boulder Stroke & Stride
Pure Austin Splash & Dash

Aquathlon is amazing! Show up after work with goggles and a pair of shoes and race. No bike, no closed transition, no flat tires, no headaches. Race and go home. Some of us do care.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Thanks.

Does it say anything about maximum field size? Minimum number of laps? Wave starts? Bikes being lapped if a lapped course? How many marshals on the course?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I have no issues. I just would like the details, that the ITU and USAT have put their stamp on.

As just one example, a response said the ITU has only one set of rules for a DL race. Great.

So I asked a number of questions and what the rules say or do not say.

Now, maybe I have read some responses wrong, but I thought the DL rules state that if a person is passed from the leader of a race, they are pulled from the course. I then read, I thought some said
this rule could not be enforced. So, if I read those posts correctly, how at one time folks are saying we following 100% of the DL rules, but then it sound likes some say some rules could not be enforced which
imply the DL rules might have to be modified to work with DL AG racing?

I am just a very detailed dot the I's and cross the T's kind of guy. You might not like the questions I ask this topic, but you probably would have been happy when I asked them for a computer you were using
so it did not delete or damage your data.

So, help me out with the questions I just posted. Seems you are saying all the answers for AG DL specific concerns should already be answered since you are saying NO modifications are needed.
And if so, seems no one needs to ask anymore questions since that PDF has ALL the answers already.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I did not say no one cared. How many sanctioned Aquathlon races are there in the US? How many sactioned Aquabike races in the US? I can tell you just about every race I do has an Aquabike race.
Not one has an aquathlon.

How many going to worlds are doing the Aquathlon? Why are they always begging for folks to do it on TeamUSA?

The race is supposed to be a run, swim, run race. Why are worlds now only swim, run races before they know whether it will be a wetsuit swim or not?

I have swam both Nationals Aquathon at Portland, and at worlds. There are very very few folks who do them. Just the data.

Will I see you at the Aquathlon at worlds in a few weeks? Anyone could have been on the team by just asking. I will be racing.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Current ITU format is as follows:

DL start is 75 person field limit.

No min number of laps. But usually at min 5k worth of distance per lap. More helps with not lapping out riders.

There has never been a wave start yet in ITU. Get entire course to yourself within the 75 athletes.

Always have had lap out rule in ITU.

There are only 2 "on course" Marshalls. One lead Moto, other sits at back of last rider. When lead Moto passes you, your pulled.


That's the current ITU draft legal regulations to answer your question.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Thanks, this implies by your statement we know the final format for WC worlds. That makes maybe 1 or 2 per country so the 75 max is not exceeded.
Based on this, 99.9% of us have no chance to be the 1 or 2 on TeamUSA for this DL Sprint AG race. No reason to buy a road bike.

Again, since you and others are saying the DL AG rules are in stone, which you quoted above, I assume there is nothing left to ask? USAT has their answer also. Just kill of the Sprint race for 2015 since
there is no WC Sprint race anymore.

Honestly, am I missing something? Honestly.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Read the very 1st words of my post:

CURRENT ITU format

You've raced in an DL race WITH a TT bike with wave starts of only 5 mins apart per wave and the race had over 300 people.


There are CURRENT DL rules that I feel will very likely be set in stone, and I have a feeling there are rules they will be flexible with. Most dealing with the wave start times and/or the # of athletes on the course at a time. I don't think the governing body of the sport is going to make AG DL super elite competitive with only 2 athletes per country, but I also don't think they are going to be dumb enough to put 1000 athletes on the course at a time.


I hope you give it a go, since you seem to enjoy the Team USA experience so much, and you have previous DL experience. I think what you will see at these races is going to be a semi-realistic experience of how the pros do it. Lots of tactics, lots of looking around at others see how they look/feel, lots of "games" being played. I think it's going to be a fanfreakingtastic experience, that I think your getting worked up about for absolutely nothing. The biggest deal you need to worry about is getting the road bike in shape to put miles on it. The rest of the details are going to come out at some point, and you'll get better clarity.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

<<Yep, I did that race and I agree, it was for all practical purposes, draft legal. I believe it was 2 laps also? And it was fun, top athletes, and safe, and on TT bikes. (Yep, folks can get hurt at any type of bike race)
>>
ok, so this is the race where the team usa lady was essentially run over and her triathlon career ended. very curious as to your definition of 'safe'. I'm thinkin it means 'dave has a good time'. please enlighten us.

Every race put on by Redemption, based in San Antonio, has an aquathlon. It's not my fault if you aren't aware of the races out there. The amazing part is I haven't even had to go searching for these; I just bump into them.

No, you won't see me at aquathlon nationals. I'm not much for flying to races, though, so you won't see me at tri nationals either. I did go to aquathlon nationals when they were in Longmont, CO a few years ago, though, because I was in Boulder.

You are aware how badly you're flaming out on this thread, right?

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

And this is all I have been saying and I am hearing you say, is this right? The current DL rules will need to be modified for AG DL races. And once I see these modifications, from ITU and USAT, I and everyone else can
determine if this looks like fun, safe, affordable, can be competitive, etc. Just need to see these in writing first, which is why I am making no statements as to what will or will not be modified.
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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Yep, Kathy crashed in that race from a pack of guys. Others crashed in the race from what I remember because folks ran across the street. Folks crashed in that race because they were going to fast around turns, etc. which
I saw first hand. So for a few of you folks who want to say crashes ONLY happen when "drafting" is involved is nuts.

A good friend of mine was in a crit race the other day. He went too fast into a corner, crashed by himself into a hay bail, broken ribs, punctured lung, etc. Will see if he can recover for IMLT.

I have seen tons of bike accidents in races over the years and none were caused by drafting. Kathy's, yep, but that would have happened under the new DL rules, depending on what they are. Had nothing to do with the bike
type, etc.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Yep, when one has the guts to stick up and ask questions, .......


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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep