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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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This is why I skip over most things on this forum. I took delivery on a new Dimond last week and it is drop dead beautiful. Fit , finish was the best. Do your own homework, to many jerks on this forum.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
There are a lot of great bikes out there. I do not believe that the Dimond is dramatically faster than any of the very good ones - P5 or Trek SC or Scott Plasma 5 or Specialized Shiv or... Nor do I believe it is measurably slower. Or, more specifically, that the variance between bikes largely will come down to fit, bars, other equipment (bottle placement), etc. And that ultimately it's likely nearly impossible to determine the "best" bike for you without significant time and expense. So just pick one of the very good ones and be happy.

This is one of your best points -- not just in this thread, but ever. People who obsess over the minutia of these frames need to entirely understand the above.

By the way, I'm not actually mad at you. Part of being an internet troll is exaggerating things. It's for effect rather than sincerity. Of course, the underlying sentiment rings true, but I'm glad you clarified with your post.

(Not sure I understand the Callum Millward retweet at the end? For someone who routinely quotes Nietzsche and extemporaneously integrates obscure latin phraseology into posts, this was one of your odder external references.)
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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rhudson wrote:
This is why I skip over most things on this forum. I took delivery on a new Dimond last week and it is drop dead beautiful. Fit , finish was the best. Do your own homework, to many jerks on this forum.

Seems like you are really qualified at this point to make an assessment on the durability of this bicycle.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
This is hilarious. Everyone seems that frame drag is pretty arbitrary when you haven't tested and perfected your position or wheels as translating both across won't give the best result.

I know a lot of people with CdAs under .180m^2, as well as a few under .170m^2, and none of them are on Dimonds. Is the Diamond fast? On the right person, probably. Should you buy one? No, get a P4 instead and be faster still.

This qualifies as the dumbest post I have read on Slowtwitch this month. Congrats -- you are the July forum dunce.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [romulusmagnus] [ In reply to ]
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romulusmagnus wrote:
Grill wrote:
This is hilarious. Everyone seems that frame drag is pretty arbitrary when you haven't tested and perfected your position or wheels as translating both across won't give the best result.

I know a lot of people with CdAs under .180m^2, as well as a few under .170m^2, and none of them are on Dimonds. Is the Diamond fast? On the right person, probably. Should you buy one? No, get a P4 instead and be faster still.

This qualifies as the dumbest post I have read on Slowtwitch this month. Congrats -- you are the July forum dunce.

Explain.

Fact is you cannot translate identical position and wheels and expect to have the optimum setup for different frames. If you tested you would know this.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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I just want to know why the Dimond wasn't tested against a P5-6?

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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Strange considering they discontinued the P5-3 and the P5-6 is the natural competitor given they're both tri bikes...
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Not only that, TJ's position on the bike is one that most can't ride in. Notice how he is looking down in the pictures?
http://www.rustersports.com/...eport-11.14.2013.pdf

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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I think that may have been for consistency. What's more worrying than that is the bars they used. The Shiv is the only one with flat base bars and I suspect this has more to do with the superior performance than the frames.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Slowtwitch is obsessed with beam bikes but I have yet to see how they are faster. I've heard that you better use a disc when riding one or you are going slower than a regular double diamond bike.

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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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A couple fast testers on this side of the pond were on Falcos last year and have switched to a Trek SC and Giant Trinity TT and they're going no slower. If someone gives me one of these I'll test it against my Plasma, but I already know the Dimond will be slower.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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The biggest thing most people think is that by removing tubes a bike is faster. That is not always true.

The Shiv is a slow bike from what everyone on here says and if the Dimond is comparable to that, then the only reason to buy a Dimond is because it looks cool.

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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
A couple fast testers on this side of the pond were on Falcos last year and have switched to a Trek SC and Giant Trinity TT and they're going no slower. If someone gives me one of these I'll test it against my Plasma, but I already know the Dimond will be slower.

No, you believe the Dimond will be slower. Belief is not knowledge.

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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:
Grill wrote:
A couple fast testers on this side of the pond were on Falcos last year and have switched to a Trek SC and Giant Trinity TT and they're going no slower. If someone gives me one of these I'll test it against my Plasma, but I already know the Dimond will be slower.

No, you believe the Dimond will be slower. Belief is not knowledge.

It is when you've tested as much as I have. The delta in performance between wheels tested on their own as opposed to different frames/forks is massive and doesn't correlate. I know not only the fastest wheels for my bike, but also which tubs work best with the wheel and fork in question, and that alone let's me confidently state that the Dimond will not be faster given the same equipment and position. As I said before, it's possible the Dimond could eventually be quicker, but the cost of the frame plus a couple thousand for testing make it a foolhardy, and not to mention risky, proposition.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Power13] [ In reply to ]
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Power13 wrote:

No, you believe the Dimond will be slower. Belief is not knowledge.

Sure, but that goes both ways. Rappstar, above, says, "Based on what I've seen, the Dimond is faster than the Shiv." But then doesn't explain what he's seen - just offers justifications for not explaining it. To his credit he did water down the claim in the same paragraph, "But for me, I believe the Dimond is faster." (emphasis mine).
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
Power13 wrote:
Grill wrote:
A couple fast testers on this side of the pond were on Falcos last year and have switched to a Trek SC and Giant Trinity TT and they're going no slower. If someone gives me one of these I'll test it against my Plasma, but I already know the Dimond will be slower.


No, you believe the Dimond will be slower. Belief is not knowledge.


It is when you've tested as much as I have. The delta in performance between wheels tested on their own as opposed to different frames/forks is massive and doesn't correlate. I know not only the fastest wheels for my bike, but also which tubs work best with the wheel and fork in question, and that alone let's me confidently state that the Dimond will not be faster given the same equipment and position. As I said before, it's possible the Dimond could eventually be quicker, but the cost of the frame plus a couple thousand for testing make it a foolhardy, and not to mention risky, proposition.

Yup....that is called "belief".

That doesn't mean your belief is wrong.....but it is not the same thing as knowledge.

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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
As I said before, it's possible the Dimond could eventually be quicker, but the cost of the frame plus a couple thousand for testing make it a foolhardy, and not to mention risky, proposition.

Only if your main concern is optimizing your ROI. It's interesting otherwise. With so many people emotionally caught up in the idea of beam bikes (on both the hater and fanboi sides) it'd be good if some set of affluent age groupers with no financial interest in the company subjected themselves to a rigorous, respected process (A2, LSWT, ERO) and posted the data publicly.

I'm kind of a beam hater, but there's a valid point made several times in this thread that some people like to having something unique and different. Boutique brands are OK. The Cervelo/Trek/Specialized/Felt/Cannondale/Giant hegemony is pretty boring. And it's probably good for the industry when manufacturers try new and different things. Even if the the idea doesn't pan out.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I came to read this thread because I didn't want to see another thread filled with hate in the LR, and it ends up being a thread just like those discussing how badly Trump and Hillary suck.

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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
I came to read this thread because I didn't want to see another thread filled with hate in the LR, and it ends up being a thread just like those discussing how badly Trump and Hillary suck.


I've been out of the LR for a month. Might dip a toe back in around February. :) So I have to get my fill in the beam bike threads.
Last edited by: trail: Aug 1, 16 9:09
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Only if your main concern is optimizing your ROI. It's interesting otherwise. With so many people emotionally caught up in the idea of beam bikes (on both the hater and fanboi sides) it'd be good if some set of affluent age groupers with no financial interest in the company subjected themselves to a rigorous, respected process (A2, LSWT, ERO) and posted the data publicly.

By 'subject themselves', do you simply mean 'pay for themselves' to test?
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [romulusmagnus] [ In reply to ]
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romulusmagnus wrote:

By 'subject themselves', do you simply mean 'pay for themselves' to test?

Yes.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Grill wrote:
As I said before, it's possible the Dimond could eventually be quicker, but the cost of the frame plus a couple thousand for testing make it a foolhardy, and not to mention risky, proposition.

Only if your main concern is optimizing your ROI. It's interesting otherwise. With so many people emotionally caught up in the idea of beam bikes (on both the hater and fanboi sides) it'd be good if some set of affluent age groupers with no financial interest in the company subjected themselves to a rigorous, respected process (A2, LSWT, ERO) and posted the data publicly.

I'm kind of a beam hater, but there's a valid point made several times in this thread that some people like to having something unique and different. Boutique brands are OK. The Cervelo/Trek/Specialized/Felt/Cannondale/Giant hegemony is pretty boring. And it's probably good for the industry when manufacturers try new and different things. Even if the the idea doesn't pan out.

It's not. My main concern is lowering my CdA, but spending 8k on a frame and testing (plus a new front wheel and probably bars) that probably won't achieve that is just stupid.

As I said I'll happily test it if Dimond or an enthusiast wants to send me theirs, but no sane person is going to jump from a sure thing to a big fat maybe based on marketing and super weak tunnel testing done with rubbish protocols.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [rhudson] [ In reply to ]
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Let me start out by pointing out that I'm not as smart as most of the people on this forum. I'm an old guy that's been doing triathlon for about 5 years, the first 4 on a cervelo P3 and this year on a Diamond I bought from someone without any connection to rustersports.com. The frame was untouched as it was a replacement for a frame that had been replaced under warrantee?? It cost me a lot less than a new P3 Six would have and for years I'd fought the bike/human interface on my P3. I'd tried a butt load of saddles on my Cervelo and the idea of a 'softer' ride interested me, so I bought the Dimond. I understood it was an unwarranted purchase and don't expect TJ to give me anything if it craps out today. I would be impressed if they would stand behind all of their frames, but don't expect anything. So far this year, I've trained and raced on this thing 3 times and am happy with the ride, no bike/human interface issues. Like I said earlier, I'm not smart about coefficient of drag, yew angles, etc. but I'm enjoying this bike and its that simple. I have also learned in the last 5 years that the longest distance in triathlon is the 6 inches between your ears.
Last edited by: ernieinky: Aug 1, 16 9:55
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
It's not. My main concern is lowering my CdA, but spending 8k on a frame and testing (plus a new front wheel and probably bars) that probably won't achieve that is just stupid.

I think you're saying there that ROI *is* your main concern. :)
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Grill wrote:

It's not. My main concern is lowering my CdA, but spending 8k on a frame and testing (plus a new front wheel and probably bars) that probably won't achieve that is just stupid.


I think you're saying there that ROI *is* your main concern. :)

Touche.
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