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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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I (dis)like how they test at non standard yaw angles to potentially make it harder to compare their bike vs other bikes that have tested data from A2.

All in all If I was going to spend money or my athletes money (oh wait I've helped 6 with the should I buy Bike A or Bike B or Bike C decisions in the last 4 mo), there are 2-4 other brands I'm sticking my athletes on before the Dimond.

Although damn it, I do love me some of the paint schemes they've been coming up with. Love, love in fact.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
twitter & IG = @accelerate3
Last edited by: desert dude: Jul 30, 16 13:21
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:

That's 5W at 30mph.....so 1.5W at 20mph (a more typical IM speed).

Ummm...no. They're quoting ~40g of drag when tested at 30mph. That is ~equivalent to a power difference of 4W at typical bike racing speed, NOT at 30mph.

That's ok though, both the 30mph caveat for the test and the "at typical race speed" for the power estimate are commonly left off and cause confusion. Context matters ;-)



http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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chrisgrigsby wrote:
My experience with the Dimond bikes was pretty disappointing. I test rode one from a local dealer and was shocked at how harsh the ride was compared to my 2016 P2, especially considering that the selling point of a beam point seems to be the added comfort. This was with the stock Profile deep dish wheels, so perhaps those wheels are harsh as compared to the 808s on my P2, but my bike felt like a magic carpet ride next to the Dimond.

Still, on a whim, I bought a used Dimond bike sans wheels from someone on the forum here last Spring. It was a killer deal with a Di2 build, Quarq power meter, ceramic speed bearings, etc..., and I figured I could use my 808s to smooth out the ride. The bike arrived and the fit and finish was so poor that it looked like the very first attempt someone had at building a bicycle, or anything for that matter, in their life. The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not. The bike was still under warranty to the original owner but Dimond was basically worthless in addressing my concerns. According to the seller, Dimond said they would take care of me if the cracks turned out to be structural, but I never got anything in writing. Plus, the offer was worthless in that they evidently said they would give me a tiny discount on the full retail price of a $4,000 Xpress frame if mine failed. In other words, they refused to warranty their workmanship on the frame, knowing full well that the paint was problematic on a ton of their frames. I even offered to pay them to repaint it properly and they told me they were too busy. I asked them how much to upgrade to a Superfork and they told me those were only available to 'customers', i.e. not me because I didn't buy the bike new from them. So much for standing by your product.

It was so apparent to me that this company was not headed in the right direction that I sold it immediately and am happily riding my heavily upgraded P2, at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, does no one else seem to care that the Dimond wind tunnel testing showed no measurable improvement over a Shiv or a P5-three with the rider onboard? That fact alone tells me that there is no real reason to buy a Dimond other than to look cool. You aren't going to be faster on it, hell, you may even be slower than a P5-Six, you can't ride it on a trainer, the resale value is terrible, and the company doesn't appear to stand behind their work.

I appreciate your candidness regarding Dimond's warranty failure.

Makes me appreciate the two Trek SC paint issues I had that Trek swapped out for FREE including shop disassembly of old frames group sets, shipping, assembly of group sets on new frames and some free upgrades.

Few things are worse than a company that doesn't care about their customer following a sale. Shame on them.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Bryan0721] [ In reply to ]
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I found Dimond's customer service to be excellent. That's been my experience.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jönköping 70.3, Jönköping, Sweden, July 8th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Don't feed the turd.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
I found Dimond's customer service to be excellent. That's been my experience.

Pre-sale? Or in what respect exactly? Because Chris' experience post-sale speaks volumes. And that's exactly where it counts and matters most IMO.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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You're not the first person to experience quality issues, and that has scared me off from getting one. Too bad, I think they look awesome. Sticking with my SC9 for now and hoping that cervelo or trek come out with something cool soon - a lot to be said for buying a bike that your LBS will offer full support and warranty on.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Bryan0721] [ In reply to ]
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Bryan0721 wrote:
chrisgrigsby wrote:
My experience with the Dimond bikes was pretty disappointing. I test rode one from a local dealer and was shocked at how harsh the ride was compared to my 2016 P2, especially considering that the selling point of a beam point seems to be the added comfort. This was with the stock Profile deep dish wheels, so perhaps those wheels are harsh as compared to the 808s on my P2, but my bike felt like a magic carpet ride next to the Dimond.

Still, on a whim, I bought a used Dimond bike sans wheels from someone on the forum here last Spring. It was a killer deal with a Di2 build, Quarq power meter, ceramic speed bearings, etc..., and I figured I could use my 808s to smooth out the ride. The bike arrived and the fit and finish was so poor that it looked like the very first attempt someone had at building a bicycle, or anything for that matter, in their life. The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not. The bike was still under warranty to the original owner but Dimond was basically worthless in addressing my concerns. According to the seller, Dimond said they would take care of me if the cracks turned out to be structural, but I never got anything in writing. Plus, the offer was worthless in that they evidently said they would give me a tiny discount on the full retail price of a $4,000 Xpress frame if mine failed. In other words, they refused to warranty their workmanship on the frame, knowing full well that the paint was problematic on a ton of their frames. I even offered to pay them to repaint it properly and they told me they were too busy. I asked them how much to upgrade to a Superfork and they told me those were only available to 'customers', i.e. not me because I didn't buy the bike new from them. So much for standing by your product.

It was so apparent to me that this company was not headed in the right direction that I sold it immediately and am happily riding my heavily upgraded P2, at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, does no one else seem to care that the Dimond wind tunnel testing showed no measurable improvement over a Shiv or a P5-three with the rider onboard? That fact alone tells me that there is no real reason to buy a Dimond other than to look cool. You aren't going to be faster on it, hell, you may even be slower than a P5-Six, you can't ride it on a trainer, the resale value is terrible, and the company doesn't appear to stand behind their work.

I appreciate your candidness regarding Dimond's warranty failure.

Makes me appreciate the two Trek SC paint issues I had that Trek swapped out for FREE including shop disassembly of old frames group sets, shipping, assembly of group sets on new frames and some free upgrades.

Few things are worse than a company that doesn't care about their customer following a sale. Shame on them.

It wasn't their customer he bought it used. If you bought a used Cervelo and it had a warranty issue they'd tell you to go pound sand too.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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chrisgrigsby wrote:
My experience with the Dimond bikes was pretty disappointing. I test rode one from a local dealer and was shocked at how harsh the ride was compared to my 2016 P2, especially considering that the selling point of a beam point seems to be the added comfort. This was with the stock Profile deep dish wheels, so perhaps those wheels are harsh as compared to the 808s on my P2, but my bike felt like a magic carpet ride next to the Dimond.

Still, on a whim, I bought a used Dimond bike sans wheels from someone on the forum here last Spring. It was a killer deal with a Di2 build, Quarq power meter, ceramic speed bearings, etc..., and I figured I could use my 808s to smooth out the ride. The bike arrived and the fit and finish was so poor that it looked like the very first attempt someone had at building a bicycle, or anything for that matter, in their life. The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not. The bike was still under warranty to the original owner but Dimond was basically worthless in addressing my concerns. According to the seller, Dimond said they would take care of me if the cracks turned out to be structural, but I never got anything in writing. Plus, the offer was worthless in that they evidently said they would give me a tiny discount on the full retail price of a $4,000 Xpress frame if mine failed. In other words, they refused to warranty their workmanship on the frame, knowing full well that the paint was problematic on a ton of their frames. I even offered to pay them to repaint it properly and they told me they were too busy. I asked them how much to upgrade to a Superfork and they told me those were only available to 'customers', i.e. not me because I didn't buy the bike new from them. So much for standing by your product.

It was so apparent to me that this company was not headed in the right direction that I sold it immediately and am happily riding my heavily upgraded P2, at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, does no one else seem to care that the Dimond wind tunnel testing showed no measurable improvement over a Shiv or a P5-three with the rider onboard? That fact alone tells me that there is no real reason to buy a Dimond other than to look cool. You aren't going to be faster on it, hell, you may even be slower than a P5-Six, you can't ride it on a trainer, the resale value is terrible, and the company doesn't appear to stand behind their work.

To me, it sounds like you should be pissed off at the guy who sold you the bike, not Dimond.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:
Bryan0721 wrote:
chrisgrigsby wrote:
My experience with the Dimond bikes was pretty disappointing. I test rode one from a local dealer and was shocked at how harsh the ride was compared to my 2016 P2, especially considering that the selling point of a beam point seems to be the added comfort. This was with the stock Profile deep dish wheels, so perhaps those wheels are harsh as compared to the 808s on my P2, but my bike felt like a magic carpet ride next to the Dimond.

Still, on a whim, I bought a used Dimond bike sans wheels from someone on the forum here last Spring. It was a killer deal with a Di2 build, Quarq power meter, ceramic speed bearings, etc..., and I figured I could use my 808s to smooth out the ride. The bike arrived and the fit and finish was so poor that it looked like the very first attempt someone had at building a bicycle, or anything for that matter, in their life. The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not. The bike was still under warranty to the original owner but Dimond was basically worthless in addressing my concerns. According to the seller, Dimond said they would take care of me if the cracks turned out to be structural, but I never got anything in writing. Plus, the offer was worthless in that they evidently said they would give me a tiny discount on the full retail price of a $4,000 Xpress frame if mine failed. In other words, they refused to warranty their workmanship on the frame, knowing full well that the paint was problematic on a ton of their frames. I even offered to pay them to repaint it properly and they told me they were too busy. I asked them how much to upgrade to a Superfork and they told me those were only available to 'customers', i.e. not me because I didn't buy the bike new from them. So much for standing by your product.

It was so apparent to me that this company was not headed in the right direction that I sold it immediately and am happily riding my heavily upgraded P2, at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, does no one else seem to care that the Dimond wind tunnel testing showed no measurable improvement over a Shiv or a P5-three with the rider onboard? That fact alone tells me that there is no real reason to buy a Dimond other than to look cool. You aren't going to be faster on it, hell, you may even be slower than a P5-Six, you can't ride it on a trainer, the resale value is terrible, and the company doesn't appear to stand behind their work.


I appreciate your candidness regarding Dimond's warranty failure.

Makes me appreciate the two Trek SC paint issues I had that Trek swapped out for FREE including shop disassembly of old frames group sets, shipping, assembly of group sets on new frames and some free upgrades.

Few things are worse than a company that doesn't care about their customer following a sale. Shame on them.


It wasn't their customer he bought it used. If you bought a used Cervelo and it had a warranty issue they'd tell you to go pound sand too.

Not exactly...the frame was under warranty at the time of the sale, and it was the seller who was trying to work out a solution with Dimond, not me. Unfortunately, it doesn't change the fact that the quality of the frame was abysmal for a supposedly premium product. Sorry if that doesn't fit your preconceived narrative about Dimond, but that is a fact. They do look cool, I'll give you that!
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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Dude I've rode Cervelo for 10 years and have no plans buying a Dimond. I have no narrative on Dimond just stating facts.

From their website

"Dimond Bike Return and Warranty Policy

All Dimond framesets are warrantied against manufacturing defects for a period of 6 years from the date of purchase. This warranty is available only to the original owner and is non-transferrable. Paint, graphics and Dimond forks are warrantied for 1 year from the date of purchase."

Once you purchased it you were SOL. The warranty doesn't transfer. I'm sorry your preconceived notions of how a warranty should work don't match how it actually does.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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chrisgrigsby wrote:
My experience with the Dimond bikes was pretty disappointing. I test rode one from a local dealer and was shocked at how harsh the ride was compared to my 2016 P2, especially considering that the selling point of a beam point seems to be the added comfort. This was with the stock Profile deep dish wheels, so perhaps those wheels are harsh as compared to the 808s on my P2, but my bike felt like a magic carpet ride next to the Dimond.

Still, on a whim, I bought a used Dimond bike sans wheels from someone on the forum here last Spring. It was a killer deal with a Di2 build, Quarq power meter, ceramic speed bearings, etc..., and I figured I could use my 808s to smooth out the ride. The bike arrived and the fit and finish was so poor that it looked like the very first attempt someone had at building a bicycle, or anything for that matter, in their life. The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not. The bike was still under warranty to the original owner but Dimond was basically worthless in addressing my concerns. According to the seller, Dimond said they would take care of me if the cracks turned out to be structural, but I never got anything in writing. Plus, the offer was worthless in that they evidently said they would give me a tiny discount on the full retail price of a $4,000 Xpress frame if mine failed. In other words, they refused to warranty their workmanship on the frame, knowing full well that the paint was problematic on a ton of their frames. I even offered to pay them to repaint it properly and they told me they were too busy. I asked them how much to upgrade to a Superfork and they told me those were only available to 'customers', i.e. not me because I didn't buy the bike new from them. So much for standing by your product.

It was so apparent to me that this company was not headed in the right direction that I sold it immediately and am happily riding my heavily upgraded P2, at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, does no one else seem to care that the Dimond wind tunnel testing showed no measurable improvement over a Shiv or a P5-three with the rider onboard? That fact alone tells me that there is no real reason to buy a Dimond other than to look cool. You aren't going to be faster on it, hell, you may even be slower than a P5-Six, you can't ride it on a trainer, the resale value is terrible, and the company doesn't appear to stand behind their work.

#1 - Who in their right mind test rides a bike, doesn't like it and then goes and buys it anyway????

#2 - You say later on in another post that you didn't deal with Dimond, that the original buyer did. But yet in your original post you say Dimond wouldn't address "your" concerns

#3 - You complain about the aerodynamics of the bike, yet you still went ahead and bought the bike????

I don't get it, but that is me. The warranty belongs to the original owner - Dimond doesn't owe you anything. In addition, I have more to say about this if you purchased the bike from who I think you may have purchased the bike from.


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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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I will respond to rappstar later, but your experience is not unique. Sam Gyde (aka sgy or one of the fastest age groupers in long course triathlon) had very similar quality and customer service issues with Dimond.

I don't know why TG is trying to step in and discount your experience...oh wait, I do know: he's a lemming and wants to march in support of rappstar even though rappstar thinks he's a dolt.

<3
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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That's simply not true. I bought a used P4 and had it replaced with a p5-3 at 0 cost.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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Then you got very lucky or someone lied during the process.

https://www.cervelo.com/en/support/warranty

Also only original owner.

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Sure, a policy can day one thing, but a company can choose to act in a differently. Sounds like dimond has taken a hard-lined approach in this regard.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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Well of course, but I don't think you can disern that from the given information. I'm guessing there is a lot more to his story. Out of curiosity was yours the original p4? 2009?

-----------------------------------------------------------
De Soto Sport Athlete
Formerly Draketriathlon
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [romulusmagnus] [ In reply to ]
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In the 1990s the similarly looking Zipp beam bikes were all the rage. If you went to USA Traithlon nationals you saw quite a few of these. What goes around, comes back around.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
chrisgrigsby wrote:
My experience with the Dimond bikes was pretty disappointing. I test rode one from a local dealer and was shocked at how harsh the ride was compared to my 2016 P2, especially considering that the selling point of a beam point seems to be the added comfort. This was with the stock Profile deep dish wheels, so perhaps those wheels are harsh as compared to the 808s on my P2, but my bike felt like a magic carpet ride next to the Dimond.

Still, on a whim, I bought a used Dimond bike sans wheels from someone on the forum here last Spring. It was a killer deal with a Di2 build, Quarq power meter, ceramic speed bearings, etc..., and I figured I could use my 808s to smooth out the ride. The bike arrived and the fit and finish was so poor that it looked like the very first attempt someone had at building a bicycle, or anything for that matter, in their life. The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not. The bike was still under warranty to the original owner but Dimond was basically worthless in addressing my concerns. According to the seller, Dimond said they would take care of me if the cracks turned out to be structural, but I never got anything in writing. Plus, the offer was worthless in that they evidently said they would give me a tiny discount on the full retail price of a $4,000 Xpress frame if mine failed. In other words, they refused to warranty their workmanship on the frame, knowing full well that the paint was problematic on a ton of their frames. I even offered to pay them to repaint it properly and they told me they were too busy. I asked them how much to upgrade to a Superfork and they told me those were only available to 'customers', i.e. not me because I didn't buy the bike new from them. So much for standing by your product.

It was so apparent to me that this company was not headed in the right direction that I sold it immediately and am happily riding my heavily upgraded P2, at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, does no one else seem to care that the Dimond wind tunnel testing showed no measurable improvement over a Shiv or a P5-three with the rider onboard? That fact alone tells me that there is no real reason to buy a Dimond other than to look cool. You aren't going to be faster on it, hell, you may even be slower than a P5-Six, you can't ride it on a trainer, the resale value is terrible, and the company doesn't appear to stand behind their work.


#1 - Who in their right mind test rides a bike, doesn't like it and then goes and buys it anyway????

#2 - You say later on in another post that you didn't deal with Dimond, that the original buyer did. But yet in your original post you say Dimond wouldn't address "your" concerns

#3 - You complain about the aerodynamics of the bike, yet you still went ahead and bought the bike????

I don't get it, but that is me. The warranty belongs to the original owner - Dimond doesn't owe you anything. In addition, I have more to say about this if you purchased the bike from who I think you may have purchased the bike from.

It is pretty obvious that you don't get it since you didn't mention anything about the facts I stated with respect to the quality control issues on the frame and Dimond's own aero data that shows no discernible advantage with a rider on board vis-a-vis a Shiv and a P5-three.

But to address your cross examination...

#1. I was pretty bought in to the marketing of the Dimond and thought they looked cool as hell. As mentioned, on my initial test ride I found the bike to be extremely harsh, but wasn't sure if that was due to the stock Profile wheels or the frame. When a used one came available in my size I decided to try it out with my Zipp 808s, knowing I could probably sell it and get my money back if I preferred my Cervelo, or even use the Di2 and Quarq and just sell the frame.

#2. The seller dealt with Dimond as he was a friend of the company and the bike was actually shipped by Ruster Sports. We both were in contact with them. Again, I even inquired about paying them to check out the frame for structural cracks and repaint it as well as pay them to upgrade the fork, to no avail.

#3. To be honest, it wasn't until after I bought the bike that I started to realize that frames are pretty low on the totem pole as far as aero savings, when compared to clothing, helmets, wheels, etc...upon realizing that the aero savings were likely negligible, I couldn't justify the hassle of not being able to use the bike on my computrainer.

Thomas, do you now or have you previously owned a Dimond? Just curious why you seem to be so dubious of my shared experience? I don't have an agenda, but it kind of seems like you do?
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
chrisgrigsby wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
chrisgrigsby wrote:
My experience with the Dimond bikes was pretty disappointing. I test rode one from a local dealer and was shocked at how harsh the ride was compared to my 2016 P2, especially considering that the selling point of a beam point seems to be the added comfort. This was with the stock Profile deep dish wheels, so perhaps those wheels are harsh as compared to the 808s on my P2, but my bike felt like a magic carpet ride next to the Dimond.

Still, on a whim, I bought a used Dimond bike sans wheels from someone on the forum here last Spring. It was a killer deal with a Di2 build, Quarq power meter, ceramic speed bearings, etc..., and I figured I could use my 808s to smooth out the ride. The bike arrived and the fit and finish was so poor that it looked like the very first attempt someone had at building a bicycle, or anything for that matter, in their life. The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not. The bike was still under warranty to the original owner but Dimond was basically worthless in addressing my concerns. According to the seller, Dimond said they would take care of me if the cracks turned out to be structural, but I never got anything in writing. Plus, the offer was worthless in that they evidently said they would give me a tiny discount on the full retail price of a $4,000 Xpress frame if mine failed. In other words, they refused to warranty their workmanship on the frame, knowing full well that the paint was problematic on a ton of their frames. I even offered to pay them to repaint it properly and they told me they were too busy. I asked them how much to upgrade to a Superfork and they told me those were only available to 'customers', i.e. not me because I didn't buy the bike new from them. So much for standing by your product.

It was so apparent to me that this company was not headed in the right direction that I sold it immediately and am happily riding my heavily upgraded P2, at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, does no one else seem to care that the Dimond wind tunnel testing showed no measurable improvement over a Shiv or a P5-three with the rider onboard? That fact alone tells me that there is no real reason to buy a Dimond other than to look cool. You aren't going to be faster on it, hell, you may even be slower than a P5-Six, you can't ride it on a trainer, the resale value is terrible, and the company doesn't appear to stand behind their work.


#1 - Who in their right mind test rides a bike, doesn't like it and then goes and buys it anyway????

#2 - You say later on in another post that you didn't deal with Dimond, that the original buyer did. But yet in your original post you say Dimond wouldn't address "your" concerns

#3 - You complain about the aerodynamics of the bike, yet you still went ahead and bought the bike????

I don't get it, but that is me. The warranty belongs to the original owner - Dimond doesn't owe you anything. In addition, I have more to say about this if you purchased the bike from who I think you may have purchased the bike from.


It is pretty obvious that you don't get it since you didn't mention anything about the facts I stated with respect to the quality control issues on the frame and Dimond's own aero data that shows no discernible advantage with a rider on board vis-a-vis a Shiv and a P5-three.

But to address your cross examination...

#1. I was pretty bought in to the marketing of the Dimond and thought they looked cool as hell. As mentioned, on my initial test ride I found the bike to be extremely harsh, but wasn't sure if that was due to the stock Profile wheels or the frame. When a used one came available in my size I decided to try it out with my Zipp 808s, knowing I could probably sell it and get my money back if I preferred my Cervelo, or even use the Di2 and Quarq and just sell the frame.

#2. The seller dealt with Dimond as he was a friend of the company and the bike was actually shipped by Ruster Sports. We both were in contact with them. Again, I even inquired about paying them to check out the frame for structural cracks and repaint it as well as pay them to upgrade the fork, to no avail.

#3. To be honest, it wasn't until after I bought the bike that I started to realize that frames are pretty low on the totem pole as far as aero savings, when compared to clothing, helmets, wheels, etc...upon realizing that the aero savings were likely negligible, I couldn't justify the hassle of not being able to use the bike on my computrainer.

Thomas, do you now or have you previously owned a Dimond? Just curious why you seem to be so dubious of my shared experience? I don't have an agenda, but it kind of seems like you do?

For the record, I don't own a Dimond. I have trained with TJ a few times and I consider him to be casual friend at best. You can be assured that even casual friends - or even friends for that matter - I hand it to if they pitch things I don't agree with.

Also for the record, I am not a Dimond fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, with that being said, I do occasionally stick up for brands/people/products that I think are not getting a fair assessment, in which case your's was. Again, I see you admit the seller has some relationship with Dimond. Do you know their agreement, he/she very easily could have taken a frame with issues for a steep discount and they are trying to pass it off on you. Regardless, Dimond knows you are not the original purchaser. Maybe the standard should be different, but when you buy things second hand that is a risk you are taking. That is why the resale value of bike parts is a fraction of what the initial cost might have been.

I think I understand your situation, maybe I don't, but it seems like a classic case of buyer's remorse. You should be dealing with the original seller not Dimond.

As for the aero gains, Dimond, didn't put that whitepaper out and candy-coat it like some others bike companies - frankly you should applaud them for trying their best. As I said, Dimond is not Trek, they don't have the same R&D and will never, but they were open and honest, even if it didn't reflect their bike the best. This wasn't some sort of secret. They don't promote their bike in my opinion as the absolute fastest, they take a different approach highlight "made in america" or "comfortable". As Rapp said, before, teasing out which bike is faster is useless when the body accounts for 70-80% of the drag on a bike. Maybe you didn't know this, but this isn't Dimond's fault. The bike is plenty fast and I am confident I could ride it to splits within seconds of my current bike given the same positions, equipment etc over a 70.3.

Knowing the legitimate backstory of TJ, including the expiration of his Specialized deal, and his own back issues, I feel confident the Dimond bike is comfy bike. I have talked to other riders and friends who ride Dimonds and will give me the real story. I also have friends who ride bikes, and are paid to ride bikes and complain not stop about the bike. I'm sorry you didn't find the bike comfy.

Again, I apologize if your experience with Dimond is frustrating, but please understand it is only in my opinion that I think you are being a little biases. You can see earlier in this thread where I attacked certain aspects of Dimond as well as compared to Specialized/Cervelo/Trek


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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Dimond calls their bike the fastest in the world....

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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
Dimond calls their bike the fastest in the world....

The unfortunate reality is the general public doesn't understand that it is a system and not just a bike. Ventum "World's Fastest Triathlon Bike" claims they are the fastest, Dimond, Cervelo (simply faster), Trek (the fastest bike just got faster). All the bike companies do. Until the public, of some governing body says otherwise companies will continue to do so. I am not suggesting this is ok, just an unfortunate reality.


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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
chrisgrigsby wrote:
Thomas Gerlach wrote:
chrisgrigsby wrote:
My experience with the Dimond bikes was pretty disappointing. I test rode one from a local dealer and was shocked at how harsh the ride was compared to my 2016 P2, especially considering that the selling point of a beam point seems to be the added comfort. This was with the stock Profile deep dish wheels, so perhaps those wheels are harsh as compared to the 808s on my P2, but my bike felt like a magic carpet ride next to the Dimond.

Still, on a whim, I bought a used Dimond bike sans wheels from someone on the forum here last Spring. It was a killer deal with a Di2 build, Quarq power meter, ceramic speed bearings, etc..., and I figured I could use my 808s to smooth out the ride. The bike arrived and the fit and finish was so poor that it looked like the very first attempt someone had at building a bicycle, or anything for that matter, in their life. The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not. The bike was still under warranty to the original owner but Dimond was basically worthless in addressing my concerns. According to the seller, Dimond said they would take care of me if the cracks turned out to be structural, but I never got anything in writing. Plus, the offer was worthless in that they evidently said they would give me a tiny discount on the full retail price of a $4,000 Xpress frame if mine failed. In other words, they refused to warranty their workmanship on the frame, knowing full well that the paint was problematic on a ton of their frames. I even offered to pay them to repaint it properly and they told me they were too busy. I asked them how much to upgrade to a Superfork and they told me those were only available to 'customers', i.e. not me because I didn't buy the bike new from them. So much for standing by your product.

It was so apparent to me that this company was not headed in the right direction that I sold it immediately and am happily riding my heavily upgraded P2, at a fraction of the cost.

Finally, does no one else seem to care that the Dimond wind tunnel testing showed no measurable improvement over a Shiv or a P5-three with the rider onboard? That fact alone tells me that there is no real reason to buy a Dimond other than to look cool. You aren't going to be faster on it, hell, you may even be slower than a P5-Six, you can't ride it on a trainer, the resale value is terrible, and the company doesn't appear to stand behind their work.


#1 - Who in their right mind test rides a bike, doesn't like it and then goes and buys it anyway????

#2 - You say later on in another post that you didn't deal with Dimond, that the original buyer did. But yet in your original post you say Dimond wouldn't address "your" concerns

#3 - You complain about the aerodynamics of the bike, yet you still went ahead and bought the bike????

I don't get it, but that is me. The warranty belongs to the original owner - Dimond doesn't owe you anything. In addition, I have more to say about this if you purchased the bike from who I think you may have purchased the bike from.


It is pretty obvious that you don't get it since you didn't mention anything about the facts I stated with respect to the quality control issues on the frame and Dimond's own aero data that shows no discernible advantage with a rider on board vis-a-vis a Shiv and a P5-three.

But to address your cross examination...

#1. I was pretty bought in to the marketing of the Dimond and thought they looked cool as hell. As mentioned, on my initial test ride I found the bike to be extremely harsh, but wasn't sure if that was due to the stock Profile wheels or the frame. When a used one came available in my size I decided to try it out with my Zipp 808s, knowing I could probably sell it and get my money back if I preferred my Cervelo, or even use the Di2 and Quarq and just sell the frame.

#2. The seller dealt with Dimond as he was a friend of the company and the bike was actually shipped by Ruster Sports. We both were in contact with them. Again, I even inquired about paying them to check out the frame for structural cracks and repaint it as well as pay them to upgrade the fork, to no avail.

#3. To be honest, it wasn't until after I bought the bike that I started to realize that frames are pretty low on the totem pole as far as aero savings, when compared to clothing, helmets, wheels, etc...upon realizing that the aero savings were likely negligible, I couldn't justify the hassle of not being able to use the bike on my computrainer.

Thomas, do you now or have you previously owned a Dimond? Just curious why you seem to be so dubious of my shared experience? I don't have an agenda, but it kind of seems like you do?

For the record, I don't own a Dimond. I have trained with TJ a few times and I consider him to be casual friend at best. You can be assured that even casual friends - or even friends for that matter - I hand it to if they pitch things I don't agree with.

Also for the record, I am not a Dimond fanboy by any stretch of the imagination, with that being said, I do occasionally stick up for brands/people/products that I think are not getting a fair assessment, in which case your's was. Again, I see you admit the seller has some relationship with Dimond. Do you know their agreement, he/she very easily could have taken a frame with issues for a steep discount and they are trying to pass it off on you. Regardless, Dimond knows you are not the original purchaser. Maybe the standard should be different, but when you buy things second hand that is a risk you are taking. That is why the resale value of bike parts is a fraction of what the initial cost might have been.

I think I understand your situation, maybe I don't, but it seems like a classic case of buyer's remorse. You should be dealing with the original seller not Dimond.

As for the aero gains, Dimond, didn't put that whitepaper out and candy-coat it like some others bike companies - frankly you should applaud them for trying their best. As I said, Dimond is not Trek, they don't have the same R&D and will never, but they were open and honest, even if it didn't reflect their bike the best. This wasn't some sort of secret. They don't promote their bike in my opinion as the absolute fastest, they take a different approach highlight "made in america" or "comfortable". As Rapp said, before, teasing out which bike is faster is useless when the body accounts for 70-80% of the drag on a bike. Maybe you didn't know this, but this isn't Dimond's fault. The bike is plenty fast and I am confident I could ride it to splits within seconds of my current bike given the same positions, equipment etc over a 70.3.

Knowing the legitimate backstory of TJ, including the expiration of his Specialized deal, and his own back issues, I feel confident the Dimond bike is comfy bike. I have talked to other riders and friends who ride Dimonds and will give me the real story. I also have friends who ride bikes, and are paid to ride bikes and complain not stop about the bike. I'm sorry you didn't find the bike comfy.

Again, I apologize if your experience with Dimond is frustrating, but please understand it is only in my opinion that I think you are being a little biases. You can see earlier in this thread where I attacked certain aspects of Dimond as well as compared to Specialized/Cervelo/Trek

Thomas, I appreciate your thoughts in the matter but would like to point out a few aspects of your posts that make it hard to believe you are not a bit of a fanboy.

You are absolutely correct that Dimond should be applauded for putting out a white paper that didn't necessarily represent their bike in the best light. I couldn't agree more, however the paper clearly concludes that the bike is the fastest on the market and suggests that the bike with rider tests aren't as accurate. You state that Dimond don't market their bikes as being the fastest, but rather 'comfy, when that couldn't be further from the truth. Dimond clearly markets their bike as the fastest and to assert otherwise is bizarre. You state that you know the bike is 'comfy' because TJ has a bad back and you have some friends that told you so, but how can you state this as fact if you have never actually ridden one?

My original post was merely meant to offer some perspective to would be purchasers based on my own experience. I'm not losing sleep over this. For me, personally, I would not consider a Dimond for the following objective reasons, plain and simple.
1: I'm not convinced by the aero testing against a basic Shiv and a P5-Three that the Dimond is any faster than a conventional frame. If I'm not mistaken, the frame was not designed in a tunnel. They built the frames and then had the bike tested hoping it would put up good numbers.
2: My own experience riding a Dimond did not lead me to conclude the bike was more comfortable. It revealed the bike to be harsh, at least with Profile wheels and the stock 3T fork.
3: The Dimond frame I purchased, while used for a few months, was not representative of a top tier bike in terms of fit and finish. Not even close.
4: Dimond didn't stand behind their product because it wasn't bought new from them, nor would they stand behind the product for the original owner. This is certainly their prerogative, but shortsighted at best. Again, I offered to pay them to check it out and fix the faulty paint as well as buy a new superfork, but was told in no uncertain terms that I was not a 'real' customer. For a new company trying to build a brand and reputation for quality and customer service, this is moronic. When someone is trying to pay you money to fix and upgrade a bike your company built, they are a customer in my mind. Yes, I do know the circumstances of the original seller. His frame was not sold as a blem model. He didn't know there were cracks in the bottom bracket until I received it.

I sincerely hope the company continues to grow and innovate. I wouldn't even discount owning one of their bikes in the future, but not until they mature into a company and product worthy of the pricing. I still regularly follow their bikes and still believe they are the coolest looking thing on the market.

Best,
Chris
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [chrisgrigsby] [ In reply to ]
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chrisgrigsby wrote:
The paint was flaking and chipping to the touch and there were cracks all along the bottom bracket that were impossible to discern whether they were structural or not.

Sounds like impact from using in a rear-clamping trainer.
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Re: Dimond has some A2 data! [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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This is hilarious. Everyone seems that frame drag is pretty arbitrary when you haven't tested and perfected your position or wheels as translating both across won't give the best result.

I know a lot of people with CdAs under .180m^2, as well as a few under .170m^2, and none of them are on Dimonds. Is the Diamond fast? On the right person, probably. Should you buy one? No, get a P4 instead and be faster still.
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