Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Current coaching poll
Quote | Reply
Interesting results so far. Just about half of us do not want/need a coach. Most of those that have a coach, do not care about certification.
Is it that we feel we have educated ourselves? We are a self motivated group.
Yet, there seems to a ton of people wanting to be a coach.
Is it cost?
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Karl wrote:
Interesting results so far. Just about half of us do not want/need a coach. Most of those that have a coach, do not care about certification.
Is it that we feel we have educated ourselves? We are a self motivated group.
Yet, there seems to a ton of people wanting to be a coach.
Is it cost?

I only do short course (Sprint/Olympic). I use TrainerRoad for cycling. I'm a strong runner (for a M55) so there's no room for improvement there and my base is strong enough that I don't spend a lot of time on the road. I would love to find a good swim coach (my 2018 goal is to finish the 1500m swim at Nationals in less time than it takes me to run the 10K) but that is sport specific.

DeSoto Sports Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Swim 1500m vs run 10k? Either you're a really, really, really, really,... good runner or a very, very crappy swimmer :-)

edit: swim 1500m in <30 minutes is very doable. Run 10k in <30 minutes is practically world class.
Last edited by: Kreiger: Nov 15, 17 3:41
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I didn't answer the poll because it didn't quite address me ("don't have a coach, but wouldn't care about certification" would be the correct one). Lots of people with certifications have failed to impress me in their fields; in triathlon coaching I would care about the results of the coach's other athletes. Show me how much your other athletes have improved under your tutelage compared with being uncoached or their previous coaches. Let me talk to a few so I know that the improvement didn't come at the expense of injury or burnout. Certification may or may not help a specific coach improve, but the end result is what matters, not the number of certifications.

---
The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Kreiger] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kreiger wrote:
Swim 1500m vs run 10k? Either you're a really, really, really, really,... good runner or a very, very crappy swimmer :-)

edit: swim 1500m in <30 minutes is very doable. Run 10k in <30 minutes is practically world class.

The latter, by far (you need to add several more "very" :-). Here are my swim/run splits for the two races in Omaha:

Olympic: 47:00 (100/103 in M55 AG) / 41:33 (5/102 AG)
Sprint: 24:26 (70/70 in M55 AG)/ 20:50 (11/70 AG)

DeSoto Sports Ambassador
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have a coach and don't care about his certifications. I got into this sport in 2009 and coached myself through 2013. Over this time period I observed a number of people who got their level 1 USAT certification and advertised that they were coaching while they themselves were/are always injured. I really don't care if someone took a class and passed a test. How can you expect someone to provide you a training schedule that will keep you healthy let alone improve your performance if they are always injured?

In 2014 I decided that I wanted a coach for the reason that I felt like I had tapped out my personal resources. I knew three guys in my area who coached people and made it a point to talk to them. The reason I chose these guys were based on 1) their personal performance in the sports. They had been to the level I hoped to achieve 2) Over time I had observed their athletes improving year in and year out 3) For the most part their athletes stayed healthy. Those were what drove me to talk to these guys, not their certifications.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
HandHeartCrown wrote:
Kreiger wrote:
Swim 1500m vs run 10k? Either you're a really, really, really, really,... good runner or a very, very crappy swimmer :-)

edit: swim 1500m in <30 minutes is very doable. Run 10k in <30 minutes is practically world class.


The latter, by far (you need to add several more "very" :-). Here are my swim/run splits for the two races in Omaha:

Olympic: 47:00 (100/103 in M55 AG) / 41:33 (5/102 AG)
Sprint: 24:26 (70/70 in M55 AG)/ 20:50 (11/70 AG)


we are getting off track here but if I am calculating correctly that is worse than 3:00/100m for the swim. How long have you been swimming and what does your swim training look like? I don't think you even need a swim coach at this point because there is so much low-hanging fruit...this coming from a fellow crappy swimmer.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Certifications don't really matter to me. I went with real world race experience over anything else when seeking out my current set of coaches.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I have a coach and I have no idea if he has ever pursued any certifications. I have known him for a long time. I know he has been a student of endurance sports for decades and continues to stay informed on new developments and learn new things through his own experiences. I know he has had strong results with lots of different kinds of athletes.

None of the coaches that seem to really know what they are doing around here (a small percentage of them) push a certification as proof of their knowledge.

In fact, when I see those certifications listed front and center as a coach's qualifications I assume, fairly or not, that they basically don't know what they are doing because that little course they took represents the bulk of their knowledge.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
http://www.motivengines.com
@EdwardOMalley
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
While I agree with you 100%, a lot of my beginner friends look to find some way of finding a good coach. Certification, from what I have seen, does very little in making a good coach.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I agree with what others have said... my coach has zero certifications, but after asking about them we talked about how healthy his athletes were and the progress they had made, and that was enough for me.

I don't mean to hijack the thread, but does anyone have any recommendations as to resources for someone who is interested in coaching? I regularly seek out people who have been doing it for years and pick their brains and read constantly, but any specific recommendations would be welcome.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Gtjojo189] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Gtjojo189 wrote:
I have a coach and don't care about his certifications. I got into this sport in 2009 and coached myself through 2013. Over this time period I observed a number of people who got their level 1 USAT certification and advertised that they were coaching while they themselves were/are always injured. I really don't care if someone took a class and passed a test. How can you expect someone to provide you a training schedule that will keep you healthy let alone improve your performance if they are always injured?

In 2014 I decided that I wanted a coach for the reason that I felt like I had tapped out my personal resources. I knew three guys in my area who coached people and made it a point to talk to them. The reason I chose these guys were based on 1) their personal performance in the sports. They had been to the level I hoped to achieve 2) Over time I had observed their athletes improving year in and year out 3) For the most part their athletes stayed healthy. Those were what drove me to talk to these guys, not their certifications.


This is the post everyone considering a coach should read and follow. I do a lot of coaching for young triathletes and asked about the benefit of taking the USAT course. I was told by those who took it that it helps with insurance, but you already bring far more to the table as a coach based on your knowledge and experience than anything you will gain through certification.

Now, what I would really like to see is some sort of database on how athletes do using the USAT race score as it is the best way to compare performance of someone before and after they start with a certain coach and then show that coach's impact on average on their triathletes. I also would want to see the number of injuries before and after (though that would be based on self-reporting) and evaluations. Right now, coaching selection is either marketing based (highly unreliable), word of mouth (effective but limited) or certifications (highly unreliable).

I have only been with a coach for about six months now, but my training is higher (mostly due to consistency due to accountability), I have not been injured (due in part to smart ramp of training after races rather than just jumping back in) and better race performance using my USAT score as an objective measure.

2018 Races: <a href="http://www.ironman.com/...a.aspx#axzz4wcgWtkns">IM Santa Rosa</a>, <a href="http://www.vineman.com/...te_Rio_Triathlon.htm">Vineman Monte Rio </a>, <a href="http://laketahoetri.com/...tahoe-half-triathlon">Lake Tahoe 70.3 </a>
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Toefuzz] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
From the coaches I have talked to, the Ironman U was comprehensive, the USAT level 1 was not.
Coaching has a lot to do with personality and breadth of knowledge.
Is one looking for knowledge, motivation, injury prevention, speed?
I think many coaches and their athletes are looking for a long time relationship. I always wanted to find out more for my self coaching.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Gtjojo189] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Gtjojo189 wrote:
I have a coach and don't care about his certifications. I got into this sport in 2009 and coached myself through 2013. Over this time period I observed a number of people who got their level 1 USAT certification and advertised that they were coaching while they themselves were/are always injured. I really don't care if someone took a class and passed a test. How can you expect someone to provide you a training schedule that will keep you healthy let alone improve your performance if they are always injured?

In 2014 I decided that I wanted a coach for the reason that I felt like I had tapped out my personal resources. I knew three guys in my area who coached people and made it a point to talk to them. The reason I chose these guys were based on 1) their personal performance in the sports. They had been to the level I hoped to achieve 2) Over time I had observed their athletes improving year in and year out 3) For the most part their athletes stayed healthy. Those were what drove me to talk to these guys, not their certifications.

I've also seen this quite a few times and wondered WTF is up with that?!
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Sanrafaeltri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sanrafaeltri wrote:
Gtjojo189 wrote:
I have a coach and don't care about his certifications. I got into this sport in 2009 and coached myself through 2013. Over this time period I observed a number of people who got their level 1 USAT certification and advertised that they were coaching while they themselves were/are always injured. I really don't care if someone took a class and passed a test. How can you expect someone to provide you a training schedule that will keep you healthy let alone improve your performance if they are always injured?

In 2014 I decided that I wanted a coach for the reason that I felt like I had tapped out my personal resources. I knew three guys in my area who coached people and made it a point to talk to them. The reason I chose these guys were based on 1) their personal performance in the sports. They had been to the level I hoped to achieve 2) Over time I had observed their athletes improving year in and year out 3) For the most part their athletes stayed healthy. Those were what drove me to talk to these guys, not their certifications.


This is the post everyone considering a coach should read and follow. I do a lot of coaching for young triathletes and asked about the benefit of taking the USAT course. I was told by those who took it that it helps with insurance, but you already bring far more to the table as a coach based on your knowledge and experience than anything you will gain through certification.

Now, what I would really like to see is some sort of database on how athletes do using the USAT race score as it is the best way to compare performance of someone before and after they start with a certain coach and then show that coach's impact on average on their triathletes. I also would want to see the number of injuries before and after (though that would be based on self-reporting) and evaluations. Right now, coaching selection is either marketing based (highly unreliable), word of mouth (effective but limited) or certifications (highly unreliable).

I have only been with a coach for about six months now, but my training is higher (mostly due to consistency due to accountability), I have not been injured (due in part to smart ramp of training after races rather than just jumping back in) and better race performance using my USAT score as an objective measure.

If you had the consistency, you would probably have the same results w/o a coach. But if it takes spending money to get the accountability, great, but to say the coach got your improvements I believe is, well,

I have never had a coach and never will. If I were to pay someone, then this sport, for me, would no longer be a hobby. And most "coaches" that I see, well, ...

I train like 15 hours a week, all year long. I stay at race weight all year long. I generally stay healthy. And have been USAT All american for 11 years. Why would I need a coach?

Now, the question is not what a person did before or after a coach, since even for you, that is comparing apples to oranges. If one trains more, one probably does better. If one stays healthy, one WILL do better. Do not need a coach to meet these goals.

Bottom line if it takes a coach to train consistently, and smart, great, worth every penny. But not everyone has to pay a person to do the things in training that are so obvious to many.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Sanrafaeltri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 I was told by those who took it that it helps with insurance, but you already bring far more to the table as a coach based on your knowledge and experience than anything you will gain through certification.

-----------

The far greatest thing USAT cert does imo is the networking that you can take advantage of, especially for *new* coaches. That's a very underrated aspect of coaching side of certification process. It's all the part that is hit or miss because lots of coaches think they have all these *secret* workouts and never want to share with others. Those are the ones you stay away from.

http://www.aomultisport.com
twitter; instagram-@brooksdoughtie
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I get where you are coming from with the motivation. I'd describe myself as motivated and pretty successful pre-coach, but what I wanted at the time was a little more help in the iron distance coaching. I had done two full ironman races and was coming off my second where I had a good result but not great result. Where I felt lost was going into the taper for it. I had dabbled enough with HIM and OLY that I knew what my body could handle and the fact that I could do multiple of these a year allowed me to experiment with what worked and what didn't. Due to my budget at the time I could only afford to do one ironman during the year and I was to the point that I didn't want to spend the whole year in great shape but go through the same thing in the taper again. I remember what sold me on my coach when we had our first conversation was that he told me if budget was a concern to just get myself in the shape I had the previous year and then he would work with me the last 2-3 months before my race. It made me realize that he really wanted to help me reach my goals and was just not trying to generate income.

All that being said, my first year with him was not one of my most successful years. I think really don't think I generated the feedback he needed to change my schedule on my end. Since then I've become more vocal about what I like, what I don't like and have had 3 of my best years in triathlon since. The main thing is my hard workouts have become slightly harder than they were when I coached myself and there are easy days scheduled in which I rarely took. This has been the most benefit to me.

I also agree with you about the scheduling being like a job. After my last race of the year I request 2-3 months with no scheduling. That doesn't mean I don't work out, it just means I get to pick what I'm going to do an hour for exercise that day instead of feeling like it's something I have to do.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you had the consistency, you would probably have the same results w/o a coach. But if it takes spending money to get the accountability, great, but to say the coach got your improvements I believe is, well,



-------------

is well......what Dave? So your saying the variable that actually helped create the consistent results isn't allowed because it's a coach? That doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. Why can't the coach get credit in that situation?

http://www.aomultisport.com
twitter; instagram-@brooksdoughtie
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
B_Doughtie wrote:
If you had the consistency, you would probably have the same results w/o a coach. But if it takes spending money to get the accountability, great, but to say the coach got your improvements I believe is, well,



-------------

is well......what Dave? So your saying the variable that actually helped create the consistent results isn't allowed because it's a coach? That doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. Why can't the coach get credit in that situation?

This is Dave you're talking to... he's nothing but logically consistent....

____________________________________
Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Winner of the 2017 50 fly east coast Smackdown. http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6294538#p6294538
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm not smart in this sort of sport. Growing up I did team sports and honestly my inclination is to do too much.

I hired a coach to help me keep away from being injured and train smarter. I vetted my coach and he knows his stuff... could care less about whatever certs he has... although he does have several.
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
B_Doughtie wrote:
If you had the consistency, you would probably have the same results w/o a coach. But if it takes spending money to get the accountability, great, but to say the coach got your improvements I believe is, well,



-------------

is well......what Dave? So your saying the variable that actually helped create the consistent results isn't allowed because it's a coach? That doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. Why can't the coach get credit in that situation?

Nope, could have been his boss, wife, kids,or anyone else he felt he had to do what they told him.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
B_Doughtie wrote:
If you had the consistency, you would probably have the same results w/o a coach. But if it takes spending money to get the accountability, great, but to say the coach got your improvements I believe is, well,



-------------

is well......what Dave? So your saying the variable that actually helped create the consistent results isn't allowed because it's a coach? That doesn't make a whole hell of a lot of sense. Why can't the coach get credit in that situation?




This is Dave you're talking to... he's nothing but logically consistent....

I know too many folks who have coaches who are hurt or burned out. Maybe I just know the wrong folks.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
And you know what? I know plenty of people who use a coach and crush it, get better, get more consistent, etc. You can use whatever logic to fit your agenda....and that's fine.


But you said that you can't say a coach helped in a situation where hiring a coach would help in that consistency. That's illogical and flawed, simply because it doesn't fit your agenda on what a coach can do for you, you refuse credit.

But that's your agenda to think that. You would be wrong, but I'm not going to stop you from saying stupid shit.

http://www.aomultisport.com
twitter; instagram-@brooksdoughtie
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Nov 15, 17 11:51
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
B_Doughtie wrote:
And you know what? I know plenty of people who use a coach and crush it, get better, get more consistent, etc. You can use whatever logic to fit your agenda....and that's fine.


But you said that you can't say a coach helped in a situation where hiring a coach would help in that consistency. That's illogical and flawed, simply because it doesn't fit your agenda on what a coach can do for you.

I have never ever said that there are some great coaches out there. But would these folks who improved been able to do this if they really had the drive? Impossible to prove on way or another.

Again, we all spend money of stuff we believe in. For many, a coach, personal trainer, etc is a great investment for them.

So, whats wrong with that?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: Current coaching poll [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What's wrong with it, is in that your lack of ability to contribute credit to the coach, with your previous statement.

You made a very bold statement about doubting it's the coach's credit for the consistency when it was needed. I asked why you couldn't credit the coach, then you start bringing up shit about a person's boss/wife, etc.....like WTF are you even talking about at that point.

http://www.aomultisport.com
twitter; instagram-@brooksdoughtie
Quote Reply

Prev Next