Hi J,

I think you've considered the important factors and made a very good decision for your bike stable. The paint is very normal, so I expect the Finish Line polish should work well. It'll have no negative effect on the frame; even if a paint chip exposes the carbon, both carbon fibres and cured epoxy are inert and won't react with polishes nor most workshop chemicals.

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

What kind of trispoke did you think I meant? I was talking about the old Specialized Trispoke, or HED3 (don't know why I used to the old name), which I read was best with a wide fork so the fork blades didn't interfere with the large blades.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

Cool, but the response is for another reason! I just don't want people to be dissapointed with lack of clearance. Just enjoy your bike!

That's awesome tri! Appreciate the feedback. Do you ride all pavement? I'm known to do some crushed stone, where the width means grip, stability, and additional air volume to support what you describe re air pressure.

Damon, I work for a Trek Store primarily, its owned by the same people who own to full on Trek stores, but at my location, we also sell Cervelo. In the last 2 months I have sold 3 S3's and 0 R3's. All 3 guys race and tried both the R3, S3, and S5. All went with the S3 over the other bikes. The R3 weighed lighter, but preferred the S3. They all liked the overall ride of the S3 over the S5 as well. I am curious if the S3 sells better across the board over the other 2. We aren't moving R3's much at all.

Hi Geek,

Thanks for your background, sounds like a nice set up! We know that some stores (and some regions) sell more S-series, some sell more R-series (and naturally some sell more P-series), depending on the local preference for light weight or aerodynamics.

In terms of what makes you fastest, nearly every paved course favors the aero S-series over the light R-series, but not every customer believes that, or cares about that. We've published a short write up on weight versus aero that hopefully begins to explain some of the reasons behind that fact:
http://www.cervelo.com/.../weight-vs-aero.html


"Weight vs Aero" is one part of a collection of Ask the Engineers articles:
http://www.cervelo.com/...k-the-engineers.html
Lots of interesting engineering topics there!


Enjoy,

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

That is what makes this sport so awesome. So many different variables come into play. If we were having this discussion over on WW then it would never be about the S-series and would be a lot more about the R-series. I want aero and light. Some want aero and some want light.

Hi paul,

Like most responsible bike companies, there's enough normal variation in manufacturing that we're not claiming specific weights (exception: the closely controlled RCA), other than saying the frame is under 1000 grams in size 54, with paint & hardware.

The R2 is a good choice for a light bike project because the frame is so light, compared to other frames at that price point, and even compared to many frames at much higher price points.

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Damon,

Not to be a pest, but do you have any comment on why the R3 Dark didn't come over here? That made me sad, but the R2 is cheering me up considerably!

As for the R vs S point, as a tri geek, I have an NP3 for when I care about aero. The aero disadvantage of the R2 actually makes it favorable to me since I only use it on training rides, and it makes it easier to ride with my girlfriend.

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The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.

I'm convinced it's simply psychological. The rear triangle of the S5 just doesn't "look" like it could be comfortable because it's all filled in...at least in the mind of a pro bicycle rider, anyway :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Just when you think you've made your frames wide enough...someone's going to want to fit fatbike rims in them :-/

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Just curious, but did they try them with the same wheels/tires/pressures?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Me too. That said, if it's outrageously expensive to get both, I'll pick the aero over the mass.

Also, I'm loathe to give up aero for weight savings...Crr wins out over mass as well.

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Yes sir! We ALWAYS go through our bikes and put the same amount of tire pressure before we send them out on a ride.

Awesome. Same wheels/tires?

The reason I ask, as Damon mentioned above, is that the difference in vertical compliance between an S5 and an R5ca is 1%, so one would expect the difference between an S5 and an S3 to be even smaller...and judging by the fact that the geometries of the 2 bikes are identical otherwise (and thus should ride similarly)...well, that goes back to my theory of "psychology" for the apparent ride preference of the S3 over the S5 ;-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Totally agree. I just think sometimes a lot of people get wrapped up in only having one when I believe that the right thing to do is try to get them all within your budget.

Hi Toby,

Sorry for missing your question before. It's a simple explanation: we already had extra frame sets in our EU warehouse, which our EU partner Derby Cycles was able to assemble into the R3 Dark complete bikes. To ship them to North America was cost prohibitive, so the Dark remained an EU model only, sorry. Glad the R2 is cheering you up. :-)

Your P3 is a bullseye: When aero counts, the P-series is the best choice.

But don't count on the R-series aero "disadvantage" too much. For example, it has less drag than some companies "aero" bikes. Maybe your girlfriend deserves a little more credit than you thought. ;-)



Data from TOUR Magazin. More info here:
http://www.cervelo.com/...4-8a305634944f-2.PDF

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Thoughts on the increased torsional stiffness in the front end due to the larger lower headset bearing/steerer tube?

Could that be what the racers prefer? Or is that another red herring?

The last guy who bought the S3 rode all 3 bikes twice. And I can't remember if the S3 had the same Vittoria Diamante Pro light tires and racing 5.5 or not. (Btw, this guy bought and took the S3 home IN a Porche 911 Carerra) Loves the bike and when I inquired again as to why he preferred it over the S5, he said the S5 just felt a lot heavier.

Dunno...but, I don't think I've ever thought my S5 wasn't torsionally stiff enough in the front end (steering response)...and, one take-away I got from the recent Specialized S-Works Tarmac intro info is that sometimes too much torsional stiffness isn't necessarily a good thing. IIRC, they specifically "de-tuned" the steering response on the smaller sized frames as compared to the medium sized frames (http://www.specialized.com/us/en/news/rider-first)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

Interesting. What's the actual weight difference, if any?

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/

The R3 with pedals actually weighed less than the S3 without pedals, (58cm frame) but the S5 weighed more than the R3 AND the S3. His second choice would have been the R3.

Then he was looking at the wrong S5. VWD is the only choice.

My guess is that he thought the S3 was prettier - it is. That has more of an impact on enjoyment for most of us enjoying our ride than the difference in speed between the two bikes.

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/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Which gets back to my psychology comment. I've had people tell me that the tail of an S5 looks too much like a TT bike, and just doesn't look right for a road bike.

I don't agree with that, of course. I think fast is pretty :-)

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http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/