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Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup
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I consider the Cervelo R2 a pretty interesting addition their R series lineup. I'm wondering if Cervelo would consider entering the "new" aluminum trend that seems to be gaining traction.
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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I find it interesting that they are giving it a distinct name. As, it claims to be the same frame as the R3. Unless the fork is significantly different, it's an R3 with a 105 (11-speed) grouppo.

I think they upgraded the R3 frame significantly this year, maybe they are going to introduce an even more significant change to R3 next year. (R3 Mud... or R3CX..?)
Last edited by: bx3: Jul 17, 14 8:34
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [bx3] [ In reply to ]
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Isn't the R2 to the R3 as the S2 is to the S3? (same frame, different build)

Head down, thumbs up, give'r
@barrettdj
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [Deej] [ In reply to ]
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Good point. And New P2 = New P3 (but different forks). Weird.

As an owner of a white R3... they are beautiful when they are clean... (but a giant welcoming canvas for the slightest bit of grease or gatorade). Keeping it beautiful is another sport altogether.
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [Deej] [ In reply to ]
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Deej wrote:
Isn't the R2 to the R3 as the S2 is to the S3? (same frame, different build)

S2 has a different (and less aero) fork than the S3.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [bx3] [ In reply to ]
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Hi bx3,

Good thinking about the fork. Interestingly, the R2 fork comes from the same mould as the Cervelo R3 Mud fork:



Compared to the team issue "Mud" fork, we:
  • shortened the legs a few millimeters (so standard brakes reach the rim every time) and
  • changed dropout material from CNC aluminum to moulded carbon fibre.
CNC dropouts made sense for the small quantities the team needed, but now that we have production volumes, we can justify the expense of the mould tools, and get tougher and lighter dropouts for the R2 as a result.

Cheers,

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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So the R2 will accommodate larger tires? I have a tough time not rubbing with 25s on my R3 (2012 R3 Team) on the fork and on the seat stays . . .
Last edited by: kmill23: Jul 17, 14 9:37
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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Hi kmill23,

Correct. Your R3's frame and fork were only designed for 23C tires, though some 25C tires have been fitted, with varying success, depending on rim and tire details.

The latest R3 (and now R2) frame was designed around 25C tires, so frame clearance should be no problem. However, the latest R3 fork is the same as before, designed for 23C.

But the big news is the R2's fork was designed (as the R3 Mud fork) to have as much clearance as the brake caliper itself; no limits from the fork! In fact I just measured almost 45 millimeters of tire space between left and right legs. And the top of the fork is higher than the caliper. Basically, any tire that fits through the brake should fit through the fork.



Cheers,

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
Last edited by: damon_rinard: Jul 22, 14 11:44
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome. Thank you for the response. One more question: Will the R2 be available as a frameset? Or full build only?
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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Full build only.

You can buy an R3 or R5 as a bike or frameset, but 2-series Cervelos as bikes only, no framesets.

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
Last edited by: damon_rinard: Jul 17, 14 10:00
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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Damon-
If the current R2/R3/R5 frames can take a 25C tire what was the rational behind Garmin using the R3 Mud for the cobbles in the Tour?
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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Hi pyrahna,

If the cobbles are dry, a 24 mm tub is enough, and the stock R3 works.

But if the cobbles are wet, some riders prefer a 27 mm tub, and the stock R3 doesn't work.

Of course, we're making the bikes for the team long before the weather forecast is firm, so we have to "hope for the best and prepare for the worst."

Cheers,

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
Last edited by: damon_rinard: Jul 17, 14 10:43
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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One more thought - interestingly enough, not only do the RCA, R5, R3 and R2 frames take a 25C tire, but so do the new S3 and S2 frames and forks.

Makes one wonder which is the better race bike for a flat, windy race over open terrain, that often separates into solo riders or small groups: the light bike or the aero bike...?

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Of course, we're making the bikes for the team long before the weather forecast is firm, so we have to "hope for the best and prepare for the worst."

The rapid prototyping CF machine not up and running yet? :)

It might be easier to work on better long term weather forecasting.

In all seriousness it makes perfect sense if they want to run a 27mm tire.

And to answer your other post...I would prefer the Aero bike...but I need as much help as I can get in reducing the forces slowing me down.
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [pyrahna] [ In reply to ]
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LOL!

I'd take the aero bike too.

To quote Landyachtz, I've never signed up for a race and thought to myself, "I think I'd like to have to pedal 9 watts harder all day today."

Cheers,

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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Oh too bad, I was hoping the R2 = production R3 MUD.

#gravel

-SD
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Dave,

Funny, some of us were wishing the same, but we never made R3 Mud molds in all the sizes (the team didn't need all of them). And all the other tooling (bonding jigs, etc.) was only ever intended for limited production, not hardened for series production. Knowing that, we would have been looking at too much money to put it into production as it sat. Plus we had a few ideas to make it better, which would have made the Mud a completely new bike...

Cheers,

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
Last edited by: damon_rinard: Jul 22, 14 11:46
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Damon,

What size tire with the rear stays on the new R2 fit?

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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Is that a hint?!

Really though, I can't even afford the _2's (r2,s2). Want an SLC-SL tho! So don't make any more new bikes right now ;)
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
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what about this?


You can't fix stupid ..
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [kmill23] [ In reply to ]
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I was so glad I got a 2013 P2, rather than a 2014 which comes from the P3 mould.

I mean, everyone gets caught up in the sexiness of the uberware bikes at the pointy end of the race, but there are way more MOPer's than guys that podium and a taller head tube suits those athletes with less than ideal flexibility or simply wanting to ride at a different place on the comfort/speed continuum

Just like when the original P3 became the P3C and the P2 was still ali, I thought that Cervelo should have morphed things like the P3's seat stays onto the P2 as an upgrade, to give it a longer lifespan. I still think an Ali P2 with a few parts stolen from the ali P3 would be an excellent entry level bike, especially considering the relove that Ali is getting these day. Hell, change the ali P2 seat tube to accept the current P2/P3 seat post, and you'd be onto a winner with 105 on it.

And when will Cervelo hire a graphic designer to come up with paint schemes. the colours are OK, but the colour patterns continue to be atrocious. I bought my P2k because a friend had a P2k that was eye catching red with white Cervelo decals. It stood out like dogs bollocks, but in a good way. The P2K I ordered showed up blue and white. While it looked better than the current Cervelo paint jobs, I immediately had it stripped and professionally repainted red! Too bad Cervelo voids the warranty if you paint their carbon bikes these days. I know why, but don't hand cuff us with some of the butt ugliest paint jobs on the planet at least!

If Cervelo is going to revisit the past, I've got a downpayment for a Super Prodigy ready and waiting!

but they never asked me........

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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You do know that the new P2 is very similar, if not taller in stack, than the version you have?
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [Runless] [ In reply to ]
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Really? That's not how I read the geometry charts before I bought the P2 last year. I could be wrong (my wife tells me I'm wrong all the time).

When I jumped on my new P2 (vs my old P2k) I didn't adjust anything (the seat just happened to be in the right location (+/- 3mm) and I immediately felt freakin awesome. I could stay on the aerobars for 45 minutes straight (not easy to do in this hill ridden area!) while on my P2k it was 15 minutes max before my back would scream.

It was my understanding that the P3 has always been 'more aggressive' (lower in front) than the P2. I will have to check over the weekend.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [tridork] [ In reply to ]
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The old P3 did, the new one doesn't. The new P3/P2 has ~5mm less reach and ~10mm more stack for a given size than the old P2.

Old P2 Geo
New P2 Geo
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Re: Cervelo Introduces the R2 to Lineup [durk onion] [ In reply to ]
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And just to confuse the situation, the P2 range and the P3 range have gone through quite a few name changes over the years. A P2 is not a P2 is not a P2 :-)

when you say "old" it's hard to know how old you mean.

From what I recall, the P2 bike has been
P2 (with seat mast)
P2K, about Y2K, with seatmast removed and some other subtle changes
P2K upgrade from 1"steerer to 1-1/8"
P2SL same frame but anodized rather than painted to save a few grams and become the (super light? SL)
P2C completely different bike but genetically related, with monocoque carbon frame
P2 name re-introduced, but really a P2C. C was dropped since the ali version was renamed P1 (not to be confused with the original green P1 TT bike they made), then P1 dropped altogether
P2 produced in the P3 mould but with lesser carbon and/or not as refined carbon layup.

As far as I'm aware, there are really only 4 P2's
P2 with seat mast
P2K with or without paint
P2C, with or without "C" sticker
P2 from P3 mould

Damon and/or Gerard may be able to correct me but with TdF on, I doubt either of them will have time to clarify just at the moment.

As for the P3, it's gone through a similar development, but at different times, just to create confusion.

P2 & P3 used to have different geometry, but now they are the same. When any geometry changes happened, I'm just not sure. We'd have to do a ST sleuth hunt, comparing say 54cm frames throughout the years. And with the TdF on at the moment, I bet I won't be that sleuth :-)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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