Come to NJ. Here's the set of races I did in 2005:

Duathlon (Delaware): one large bridge, rest dead flat 18 miles.

Triathlon (MD): dead flat 56 miles.

Triathlon (NJ): dead flat 11 miles.

Triathlon (NJ): flat to slightly rolling 16 miles.

Triathlon (NJ): dead flat 20 miles.

Duathlon (NJ): dead flat 20 miles.

Triathlon (NJ): dead flat 8 miles (shortened from usual dead flat 12).

Triathlon (NJ): one huge hill halfway through 14 miles.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

A road bike is faster if it's under the right guy or girl.

Is a NASCAR faster than a Formula 1 Car?

It really isn't the best question to ask since both vehicle are intended for, and optimzed for, different applications.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Is a NASCAR faster than a Formula 1 Car?
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Depends...Who is driving????

Tom,

What kind of bikes you used for Nice and Phuket and why?

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I see obsessed people.

Road bike with shorties for Nice because I am a poor descender. I used a Cervelo R2.5 with a compact crank:



Laguna Phuket I used a Cannondale Ironman 2000 with standard tri set-up. Looking back, the next time I do Lagune Phuket (hopefully this year) I will use a standard tri set-up with a compact crank.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

Actually, it is not a bad anology if you throw in UCI rules. Cycling pros are riding around on NASCAR like bikes (maxed out to the rule, but the rule is severly limiting). In the tri world, Softride, B9, and Titanflex are starting to take advantage of more unlimited rules (ala Formula 1), but either marketing or lack of market has limited this growth.

"feel" does not equate to actual speed.

If you are faster on a road bike without aerobars than you are on a TT bike with aerobars...your aero position sucks. It isn't the bike.

Actually what I meant was I feel more comfortable and am faster as a result of that. But for an olympic distance or half IM triathlon, or one with very little hills, the Saber is awesome, and yes, probably faster. For long hauls, I think comfort will play a larger role though in speed attained.

The comment that started this thread.

Tom Danielson. "I ran a regular road bike -- we did a little wind tunnel testing and both have similar drag coefficients," Danielson explained.

Does he mean with him on board or not?

Does it ever occur to anybody that the difference might have something to do with the respective power outputs of the riders? If George rode a beach cruiser and I rode a TT bike, would people conclude that beach cruisers are faster?

Just a thought...

He had shorty bars on his road bike.

Folks...lets not forget that we jumped off on comments made regarding equipment choice for a 3k prologue effort. The wattage figures and time differences for that kind of effort are not easily extrapolated for the kinds of riding we do as triathletes.

It was a 5 minute effort. I'm guessing avg watts for those guys was probably on the order between 5-600 watts...significantly above what they would hold for much longer efforts. The time differences for the same rider for road and TT setups would be measured in seconds...a time amount easily made up in a missed corner or some other element.

When these guys head for longer TT efforts...they almost unanimously opt for TT setups...


I'll risk a bit of irritation by suggesting that the reason so many AGers are uncomfortable on their tri bikes is NOT because the bikes are inherently uncomfortable...but because they are so ill fit on the bike. And worse...when they try to 'fix' the problem, they almost always opt for a LESS 'aggressive' (meaning the common ST parlance where 'aggressive' means 'low'), more upright position. No wonder they are 'slower' on their tri bikes...

"the reason so many AGers are uncomfortable on their tri bikes is NOT because the bikes are inherently uncomfortable...but because they are so ill fit on the bike. And worse...when they try to 'fix' the problem, they almost always opt for a LESS 'aggressive' "

I agree, but think that you're putting the cart before the horse. A large number of MOP AG'ers don't have the body flexibility to be riding aggressive on a tri bike over an extended period of time. People with neck or lower back problems may also find an aggressive tri postion to be uncomfortable. Even with a proper FIST style fit some people still will not be comfortable. Hence that's why they start using spacers and upward pointing stems in order to ride more upright. These people would be better off in the first place on a road bike with clip-ons.

Lets not forget that the prologue finished up an extremely steep climb where the riders were going out of the saddle at (for them) slow speeds. Leipheimer dropped it into his 42 to climb. He might have meant that at the speeds on the climb the small aero difference was offset by the more comfortable climbing position.

Also remember who won? Leipheimer was on a full aero rebadged Walser. Julich was on a Cervelo Soloist Carbon but with a full aero bar setup. Cancellara rode a P3C.

As for road bikes being better for most tri courses I would argue that most triathlons arent technical at all. Its just that many age group competitors have terrible bike handling skills on any bike that they would choose. For the long time trials in the tours which often involve climbs descents and turns riders nearly always go for the full aero setup. I can only think of one triathlon course I raced on in my eleven years of racing that wasnt tri-bike suitable (The Lorne triathlon in Australia went straight up switchbacks on the side of a mountain and came back down again)

Assuming a proper FIST setup, a tri bike should require no more "body flexibility" than a road bike- you are simple rotating your body around the bottom bracket. Body angles don't change. The only difference is the use of neck muscles, which DO take time to adapt. I personally think that the thing that makes people the most universally uncomfortable is being to stretched out in the aero position. Whether you ride slack or steep, you've got to have a short enough cockpit to be able to *rest* your weight on. The more stretched out one becomes, the more strain it puts on the neck, shoulders, and triceps.
One thing that many folks, including myself, are guilty of is not being patient enough to adapt or analytical enough to figure out the real root of a problem. I get frustrated when people tell stories of selling a bike they just bought because it "didn't feel right" or "wasn't fast". Well... why? What about that bike didn't feel right? Was it a fit issue that could have been fixed with a simple stem change or saddle adjustment? Did you buy the wrong size frame? So many factors to consider before jumping to conclusions.

So where does the "run faster" bit come in?

"The only difference is the use of neck muscles, which DO take time to adapt."

The neck is the biggest issue. Some people with hypolordotic cervical spinal curves or disc degeneration may never really be comfortable. Others such as myself (with a couple of moderately degenerating discs)may have to practice regular neck stretches and exercises to make it work.

I'd suspect there are more people too stretched out on aero bars riding road bikes than on tri bikes. At any tri you'll always see people with long tri geometry aero bars on road bikes.