Look closely at these two bikes. They are not comparable.

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Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com

First, ignore Tom. He sells truckloads of Cervelos but isn't a QR dealer so his opinion is highly biased. Who knows why it's $1200 more? Maybe because you get those Real Design clincher race wheels. Which if you tried to sell on Ebay, you might get $600. Is the Lucero $1200 better than the P3C? No.

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*Your Mama*

Lucero MSRP $2699
P3C MSRP $2999

so you should have no problem finding a Lucero cheaper than a P3C provided you don't get it with carbon race wheels with super sweet bearings.

I think she is looking at the complete bike. Maybe she would be better off buying the frame and adding a Dura Ace 10 component kit.

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*Your Mama*

Wheels, crankset, brakeset.

But they probably fit differently.

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Brian

Looking to shave some more time off your bike split Marisol :)

After seeing you on your Javelin and your already good results, I would think you would be more comfortable on the Lucero than the P3C (even though I like the P3C better), especially since you do mostly longer tris and train on the same bike, right?

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

why would it be more comfortable? By the way, I ride an Aegis, not a javelin:-)

Ok, that makes more sense.. not sure I need carbon wheels, I already have the zipps. If anything, I want 303"s for kona.

Oops, that's right. Well, it was so colorful I guess I couldn't read :) Well, you seem to have more of the slam position rather than the full on aero position. I think the P3 front end is pretty low compared with your current set-up and very short chain stays. Also, I remember this summer you posting some pics with some recs and everyone said to lower your front-end. I think you ended up not doing it if I'm not mistaken.

For a big switch, the P3C (I test rode one this weekend at IMFL) would be it. You would probably more "aero" than you are now, but might not be as comfortable or generate as much power. The Lucero would be more "familiar" to you I THINK based on what you currently ride and my impression of your position (which isn't much of an impression I might add). Since you have already qualified for Kona and are likely to do so again, I'm not sure why you want to change much. FWIW, I have not ridden a Lucero - only going by the geometry specs. My favorite bike that I tested (briefly) was the new Soloist Carbon. This will likely be my next bike - figures that it is a full grand more than a P3C! Both are quite beautiful machines in the flesh - actually the Lucero looks pretty darn nice too - maybe even better!

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

Have you ever seen ANY windtunnel data for the Lucero? If I was gonna buy an aero frame, I'd think hard about that. Cervelo does their homework in the tunnel. I'm not convinced ABG does.

The framesets are closer in price than you think. The complete bike prices are so different because of the grouppo each bike comes with.

If it were me, I'd wait and get a P3C.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

which Aegis are you riding, a T2 ? if so, i think you're stepping down with either one of the others.

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what means this word 'change'? .....
Rappstar

no... a trident that doesn't fit me:-(

And I would say both of those bikes are step-ups from any Aegis, though... The Aegis T2 is the Danny Devito twin of the Arnold P3.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

The QR Caliente and Seduza are the same frame as the Lucero with different carbon weave for the finish. You could consider those packages, too. I don't really like the graphics on the Seduza, but MSRP on it is $2999 and you can get it for $2500 with 10-speed Ultegra/DA blend if you know where to look.

we just went through this, my best friend/exgirlfriend (yes they do exist) was deciding between the two. She got a Lucero frameset in the end as 2005 frames are marked down pretty low right now. She'll end up spending around $4K a really sweet custom setup sans wheels as she already has an extra training set.

Difference is the P3c has much cheaper FSA cranks where the Lucero has the uber expensive DA crank. DA brakes on Lucero, tektro/generic/cervelo brakes on the P3sl, expensive Real Designs wheelset on the QR (which you could just ebay btw).

 
We had done quite a bit of aerodynamics consulting for our bikes with John Cobb and Steve Hed who clearly have more experience than most others.
Will that convince you? I am actually for same reason sure that you really don't want to be convinced. :-)

Hope this finds you well.
Herbert

Quintana Roo / Litespeed

Aren't the Lucero and P3C both manufactured in China or Taiwan? Or, are they both manufactured here in North America?

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**All of these words finding themselves together were greatly astonished and delighted for assuredly, they had never met before**

Herbert,

Funny thing is, I would actually LOVE to be convinced. I am not a "naysayer." My point is more that ABG has not, to my knowledge, published any of the data. Certainly the influence of John Cobb and Steve Hed is to be respected and trusted. But their influence alone doesn't necessarily mean that the end product is super-aero.

Just as an example, the HED Aerolab frame (again, just as far as I know) bears the HED name, but is not manufactured by HED and is not a particularly aero frame.

I don't ride either of the bikes mentioned, so it is not like I'm trying to justify a purchase I have or have not made.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Did you really come to this forum asking for an unbiased opinion about comparing a bike to a Cervelo?

By the way, as everyone said, you get better wheels and a full Dura-Ace group with the Lucero as opposed to a Dura-Ace/generic brand mix with the P3C...be different, get the Lucero.

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Portside Athletics Blog

[reply]Did you really come to this forum asking for an unbiased opinion about comparing a bike to a Cervelo? .[/reply]

well no.. we established that I can't get the cervelo (i tried) and I was wondering on why the price was so different.. I think I have a better understanding, as I don't need carbon wheels.

Marisol, There are P3Cs available, new and used. I'm selling my 54 to get a 51. Plus, I know where new ones are available. You'll need to decide which fit is best for you, as you know or everyone on this site will tell you. -Turq

Thanks but there are NO P3 available in 48cm.. I had about 10 pm's last time from people telling me to call this shop or that one, and I can tell you THAT size is not available:-)

[reply]And I would say both of those bikes are step-ups from any Aegis, though... The Aegis T2 is the Danny Devito twin of the Arnold P3.[/reply]

Now that was funny and Oh so true ... :)

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____________________________________
Fatigue is biochemical, not biomechanical.
- Andrew Coggan, PhD

How many Fluid Dynamics courses did you have Jordan? :-) From inspecting the two frames, I am pretty confident that the Lucero is as aerodynamic as the P3C. And I'm talking just about the shape, don't get me started on frontal or surface areas.



Either way, you do know how silly it is to be comparing the aerodynamics of frame alone.

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-
"Yeah, no one likes a smartass, but we all like stars" - Thom Yorke


smartasscoach.tri-oeiras.com