I didn't realize they further fragmented the rankings into three divisions. If they're only going to look at IM performances, perhaps instead they could average your best three, or use only your top race. I was trying to get away from necessitating racing three IMs a year, thus my thought of roping in the other distances.

I like Doughtie's idea, and thought of it after I posted. They're are realistically what, 12-13 AGs at each race? With 40 races on the IM circuit that puts you at ~1000 slots to AG winners. The rest of the Kona pier goes to rankings. I'm good with that. I'd even be fine with giving slots to the top 3 in each AG at regional championships.

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Funny coming from a guy who writes extensive blog posts about triathlon training minutiae.

News flash: nobody cares! Except possibly your mother.

Yeah I meant 12-13 per gender. With 40 races that gives you about 1000 slots total. Perhaps 12-13 per gender is being generous. Whatever, the idea remains.

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If it wasn't for PV's posts like this, Slowtwitch would be so boring.

And BTW, I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm looking forward to my AWA Gold bike rack location this coming year.

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Completely and utterly agree....

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Colorado Triathlon Company, CO2UT 2021, Crooked Gravel 2022, Steamboat Gravel 2022

If my math is correct at most there are 16 AG categories. 18-24 all the way up to 90+ and then PC category. What I would wager is that out of those 16, on *average* if you went with "AG winner gets auto spot to Kona", you'd likely have 12-13 at most per gender per race (how many 90+ athletes are there in the world that do Kona and other IM's?).

So 12 x 2 x what 40 IM events = 960

At most: 16 x 2 x 40 = 1280

(i did my math by looking at drop down menu of Kona).

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

This is an EPIC rant. Nice work.

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- I do all my own stunts

I'm very surprised you got bronze if you won your AG at an IM, plus a 1/2 and did well at Kona. You probably didn't do all three in the time period where they evaluate your ranking and you are only being evaluated on two races.

Yeah, interesting, I got silver for two halves and a full, none of which I was near the front LOL. I'd love it if UKINNY would actually look up what they say his/her points are, out of sheer curiosity.

ETA OK, did a little sleuthing (slow day... and STers are good at this... :) )

He actually got gold. Just looks like bronze on the listing

Are you really this angry in real life or is this just your internet persona? Bravo if it's just a persona: well played, very consistent and it obviously generates a lot of attention. If you're really this angry, I can't imagine it's healthy or productive.

However, to your point about AWA, on the one hand, just about every company has a rewards program. Anyone that does the math realizes that it doesn't correlate too well with actual performance. There are (were?) actual monetary savings with early registration to gold (maybe silver & bronze?), which was a small, but real benefit.

As for KQ, it would have happened by now. The negative response would be overwhelming: the quality of the field would really plummet. Look at how much heat WTC takes over the men vs. women pro slots, and it is highly debatable if that system is really unfair.

1. Male 18-24
2. Male 25-29
3. Male 30-34
4. Male 35-39
5. Male 40-44
6. Male 45-49
7. Male 50-54
8. Male 55-59
9. Male 60-64
10. Male 65-69
11. Female 18-24
12. Female 25-29
13. Female 30-34
14. Female 35-39
15. Female 40-44
16. Female 45-49
17. Female 50-54
18. Female 55-59
19. Female 60-64
20. Female 65-69

There's 20 AGs per race that doesn't even count any athletes 70+

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

this is why i care far more about usat rankings.

even when you get gold, your reward is a whole bunch of emails inviting you to sign up early for races that you don't want to do anyways.

probably the only thing i liked about it was getting invited to the banquet at worlds, but i didn't even attend so not sure it's much of a perk.

No idea mate and not sure I can be arsed ! My three races were march to October

As I said in my edited post. You got gold.

Exactly. You would add 3 more for IMFL and typically 2 more for IMAZ. Better assume at least 21 AGs in play averaged across all IMs.

At IMLOU 2015, AWA athletes were allowed to enter the pre-race banquet room via the most right hand door as opposed to the three doors immediately to the left (as in 1 foot to the left) ... walking into the same hall ... with open seating ... and no line cutting allowed for the buffet. They even had a person at that door taking the little AWA hall pass to ensure lesser athletes did not walk through that gilded entrance. WHAT A PERK!

it's a joke. i've actually checked into races and seen the awa line longer than the "regular" line.

Kiley Austin-Young, why do you care if I think your statement comes off douchey (it does), and what does that have to do with my car?

There are 16 total AG's (including PC group), so for a total of 32 (male+female). However 3 of those groups are from 80-84,85-89, 90+. You could likely average those out, and I'd wager 12 AG's on average would take "AG win= KQ spot", so total of 24 athletes per IM.

40 IM's x 24 athletes= ~1000 athletes who would qualify under the system of "win your AG and you make Kona, but no roll down".

How many athletes are in Kona who didn't AG qualify? 600 from legacy/fundraising/stories/celebrity/pro?

There is what ~2300 spots in Kona?

So under my previous suggested plan it would look like this:

-1000 AG athletes who won AG and auto KQ'd.
-600 athletes from the legacy/pro/celebs/stories/fundraising (IE, aren't included in AG rankings)

That would leave roughly 700-800 spots for the "best of the rest" from the AG ranking system. WTC of course would divide each AG based on number of entries (larger percentage in male 45-49 versus smaller portion in female 18-24, etc). That is if 600 people are picked each year by WTC to race from the "other" category. I don't actually know how many people qualify for Kona based on celebrity status/legacy or whatever lottery thing they have now/cancer story/corporate fundraising. If someone has a more exact number, that would be helpful to know.

So that's how in "theory" the numbers would look.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

600 seems high. I think Legacy is ~125 at most. Throw in 20-50 for Boulder style raffles and another 50 celebrity/army/survivor spots and you've 250 at most. But what do i know.

I think 600 is high for "legacy/fundraising/stories/celebrity/pro? " I would guess:


125 Legacy
85 Pro
10 Celebrity (conservative estimate)
10 Stories (conservative estimate)
20 Friends and family of WTC
50 CEO Challenge (total WAG)

That's 300, leaving 300 more for your 'best of the rest'. Really though, maybe your 600 is the right number. I'm sure the actual number of side deal entries is a closely held trade secret.

I had originally figured 300-400 for "other" non AG KQing, but I figured Dev or somone would scream I was way off.

So essentially if WTC went with an AG win and your in + AG ranking system, Kona would be:

-~90 pros
-300 "others"
-~1000 AG auto KQing athletes
- ~1000 AG from the "AG ranking" system.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

It would work, but I don't suspect it is coming. They would want to 'socialize' the change well in advance and I think they fear a reception similar to the Ironman Access program announced in 2010.

Speaking of that program, they couldn't even sell it if they tried today because advance registration privileges are no longer needed with races failing to sell out; and the second chance they offered for the lottery program went out the window with the lawsuit.

I think this idea of distributing slots to AWA athletes would fail on another ground: cost and convenience for WTC.

Right now...Your customers line up at the slot meeting and winners and roll-downs accept and pay for their slots right there and then. WTC has your money whether you show up on the pier or not.

Why would WTC want to go through the work of notifying eligible athletes, waiting to see who takes up the offer, and then reaching out to more athletes if they don't sell all the spots?

I hope they keep this as a frequent flier program and just get more creative with meaningful benefits.