Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [xtremrun] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 11:21

Post #526 of 792 (11823 views)

xtremrun wrote:

I just replied to the last post, sorry if it offended you. I wonder what Porte's and Froome's w/kgs were during their attacks.

It will be what people think cannot be done without doping minus 0.01 W/kg.

That is the way it has been for the last couple of years. Funny thing, though. The number that cannot be done without doping keeps going up. It is currently about the same as Armstrong could do with doping. It makes you wonder why guys like Armstrong bothered to dope in the first place. They were just lazy I guess.

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [giorgitd] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 11:24

Post #527 of 792 (11810 views)

So fresh that they had to administer oxygen to him for 5 minutes after the race?

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Jan de Visser] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 11:25

Post #528 of 792 (11804 views)

What about Soler?

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [buzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 11:27

Post #529 of 792 (11794 views)

buzz wrote:

What about Soler?

Good one. He's the one that had the horrific accident the year after he won the polka dots, no?

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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [AmaDablam] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 11:31

Post #530 of 792 (11778 views)

AmaDablam wrote:

It will be what people think cannot be done without doping minus 0.01 W/kg.

That is the way it has been for the last couple of years. Funny thing, though. The number that cannot be done without doping keeps going up. It is currently about the same as Armstrong could do with doping. It makes you wonder why guys like Armstrong bothered to dope in the first place. They were just lazy I guess.

i'm not certain i know where you're going with this but in my head its witty and brilliant. miracles are everywhere.

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 11:48

Post #531 of 792 (11733 views)

Not a reply to anyone in particular, but on the Wattage list Rich Wharton the glaring inconsistency with the Rules when the Sky riders were handed musette bags with 10 km to go. If Sky are happy to push this close to the edge on a rule in public view, where else will they be pushing against the edge? To quote Rich (who puts it succinctly):

UCI Rule 2.3.027

Feeding is prohibited on climbs, descents and during the first 50 and last 20 km.

The commissaires panel may reduce the distance of 50 kilometres mentioned above, depending on atmospheric conditions and the category, type and length of the race. Such a decision must be communicated to interested parties before the start of the race.

It was an obvious and illegal feed. I hate to spoil a great race and stage, but you have to park your car for THREE DAYS at least, to get to that spot. This was planned, it was public, and it was specific........

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Jan de Visser] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 11:51

Post #532 of 792 (11720 views)

Jan de Visser wrote:

echappist wrote:

Up first: nearly pancake flat stage 1 in Corsica. My guess is that Cav dons the Yellow Jersey. Stage two looks almost tailor-made for Sagan, but i think a certain Degenkolb may spring a surprise at the end.

As for the over-all: Contador, Froome, and Cuddles. I'd love to see Cuddles get the overall win, but the man is 36 and way too old.
Sagan gets the Green jersey.
Cav gets 4 wins.
Quintana takes the white jersey by a slim margin from Tejay.

Hate to do this to you, but Evans? Tejay? Hope springs eternal and all that I guess :-)

Good call on Quintana. I should start following the early season stage races a bit better. Things like the White are always somewhat of a mystery to me.

no worries. i'm somewhat partial to BMC. Though Quintana is good. He apparently used to ride a cat-1 climb on a heavy-ass bike just to go to school everyday.

That said, what does Froome's performance say about Quintana and the other who finished less than 2 minutes down on such a long climb? Maybe they did have favorable wind today?

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [echappist] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 12:02

Post #533 of 792 (11692 views)

I like how when froome does 6.37 watts/kg nobody wants to hear about the context of the race - short climb? easy stage? early in the tour? don't matter, doper.

But when he does 5.9w/kg on Ventoux suddenly everyone wants to talk about the context of the race, how long it was today, how hard, and how late in the race it is.

madness!

you are probably right but you are still mad!

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 12:05

Post #534 of 792 (11675 views)

jackmott wrote:

I like how when froome does 6.37 watts/kg nobody wants to hear about the context of the race - short climb? easy stage? early in the tour? don't matter, doper.

But when he does 5.9w/kg on Ventoux suddenly everyone wants to talk about the context of the race, how long it was today, how hard, and how late in the race it is.

madness!

you are probably right but you are still mad!

i'm a road racing cyclist; calling me mad is redundant :p

that aside, i did mention re: last week's performance how the VAM from last year's Planche stage was quite similar to the Ax-3-Domaine stage (similar gradient, supra-threshold pace), with exception that the former was a shorter climb and that there was no HC climb preceding it.

i really have nothing to say about this until i see some more analysis

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 12:11

Post #535 of 792 (11659 views)

jackmott wrote:

I like how when froome does 6.37 watts/kg nobody wants to hear about the context of the race - short climb? easy stage? early in the tour? don't matter, doper.

But when he does 5.9w/kg on Ventoux suddenly everyone wants to talk about the context of the race, how long it was today, how hard, and how late in the race it is.

madness!

you are probably right but you are still mad!

Didn't I say, "wait for Ventoux" to see what he does for an hour and that the other climb should probably be derated by 5% to get his 1 hour VAM given Aix was 20ish minutes?

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [buzz] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 12:22

Post #536 of 792 (11629 views)

Sure, perhaps he's skilled at hiding what we don't see at the finish line...

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [duncan] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 12:28

Post #537 of 792 (11608 views)

duncan wrote:

Not a reply to anyone in particular, but on the Wattage list Rich Wharton the glaring inconsistency with the Rules when the Sky riders were handed musette bags with 10 km to go. If Sky are happy to push this close to the edge on a rule in public view, where else will they be pushing against the edge? To quote Rich (who puts it succinctly):

UCI Rule 2.3.027

Feeding is prohibited on climbs, descents and during the first 50 and last 20 km.

The commissaires panel may reduce the distance of 50 kilometres mentioned above, depending on atmospheric conditions and the category, type and length of the race. Such a decision must be communicated to interested parties before the start of the race.

It was an obvious and illegal feed. I hate to spoil a great race and stage, but you have to park your car for THREE DAYS at least, to get to that spot. This was planned, it was public, and it was specific........

Sounds like Rich needs to chill just a touch....

1) where they handed up the bags wasn't that far up, and likely still relatively accessible.

2) spot was EASILY within walking distance from the base of the climb. To insinuate that they were there waiting for 3 days is pretty laughable.

3) but not as laughable from extrapolating a public legal feed into "behind-the-scenes doping.

The conspiracy theorists never cease to amaze me. From suggesting Porte willing coughed up his podium spot to this....all makes for a good laugh.

I have no idea if SKY is clean or not, but nothing above even comes close to indicating a doping program.

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Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [AJHull] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 12:29

Post #538 of 792 (11607 views)

Quoting Tyler Hamilton or Hamilton quoting Dr Ferrari: "your strength is in the blood"

It's all about oxygen carrying/utilization capacity. Muscles without O2 can't do much.

AJHull wrote:

It always amazes me what skinny legs can do on a bike. Wiggins has skinny legs and is a beast in the TT. Froome seems even more frail, and his TT was second to Martin. It astounds me that so little muscle can deliver such phenomenal power. I would love to cycle like these guys but I do have to say the upper bodies look weaker than the weakest of women - not to appealing for a male physique.

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Power13] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 12:36

Post #539 of 792 (11584 views)

cheaters gonna cheat

Power13 wrote:

duncan wrote:

Not a reply to anyone in particular, but on the Wattage list Rich Wharton the glaring inconsistency with the Rules when the Sky riders were handed musette bags with 10 km to go. If Sky are happy to push this close to the edge on a rule in public view, where else will they be pushing against the edge? To quote Rich (who puts it succinctly):

UCI Rule 2.3.027

Feeding is prohibited on climbs, descents and during the first 50 and last 20 km.

The commissaires panel may reduce the distance of 50 kilometres mentioned above, depending on atmospheric conditions and the category, type and length of the race. Such a decision must be communicated to interested parties before the start of the race.

It was an obvious and illegal feed. I hate to spoil a great race and stage, but you have to park your car for THREE DAYS at least, to get to that spot. This was planned, it was public, and it was specific........

Sounds like Rich needs to chill just a touch....

1) where they handed up the bags wasn't that far up, and likely still relatively accessible.

2) spot was EASILY within walking distance from the base of the climb. To insinuate that they were there waiting for 3 days is pretty laughable.

3) but not as laughable from extrapolating a public legal feed into "behind-the-scenes doping.

The conspiracy theorists never cease to amaze me. From suggesting Porte willing coughed up his podium spot to this....all makes for a good laugh.

I have no idea if SKY is clean or not, but nothing above even comes close to indicating a doping program.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [duncan] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 14:12

Post #540 of 792 (11448 views)

duncan wrote:

Not a reply to anyone in particular, but on the Wattage list Rich Wharton the glaring inconsistency with the Rules when the Sky riders were handed musette bags with 10 km to go. If Sky are happy to push this close to the edge on a rule in public view, where else will they be pushing against the edge? To quote Rich (who puts it succinctly):

UCI Rule 2.3.027

Feeding is prohibited on climbs, descents and during the first 50 and last 20 km.

The commissaires panel may reduce the distance of 50 kilometres mentioned above, depending on atmospheric conditions and the category, type and length of the race. Such a decision must be communicated to interested parties before the start of the race.

It was an obvious and illegal feed. I hate to spoil a great race and stage, but you have to park your car for THREE DAYS at least, to get to that spot. This was planned, it was public, and it was specific........

And the worst part is that Sky knew that they would only get fine for it. A fine that they could easily afford with their large budget. Maybe a team with a smaller budget would not risk this sort of thing, so Sky gets another advantage to break the rules. So in exchange for a small fine they increase their chances of winning the tour which is worth a hell of lot more than that fine is.

It was really poor sportsmanship and even if cycling is cut throat, purposefully breaking the rules because you know the repercussions not affect you is just disgusting.

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 15:45

Post #541 of 792 (11302 views)

One of the best parts of todays stage

_________________________________________________
When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [chaparral] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 16:02

Post #542 of 792 (11274 views)

chaparral wrote:

duncan wrote:

Not a reply to anyone in particular, but on the Wattage list Rich Wharton the glaring inconsistency with the Rules when the Sky riders were handed musette bags with 10 km to go. If Sky are happy to push this close to the edge on a rule in public view, where else will they be pushing against the edge? To quote Rich (who puts it succinctly):

UCI Rule 2.3.027

Feeding is prohibited on climbs, descents and during the first 50 and last 20 km.

The commissaires panel may reduce the distance of 50 kilometres mentioned above, depending on atmospheric conditions and the category, type and length of the race. Such a decision must be communicated to interested parties before the start of the race.

It was an obvious and illegal feed. I hate to spoil a great race and stage, but you have to park your car for THREE DAYS at least, to get to that spot. This was planned, it was public, and it was specific........

And the worst part is that Sky knew that they would only get fine for it. A fine that they could easily afford with their large budget. Maybe a team with a smaller budget would not risk this sort of thing, so Sky gets another advantage to break the rules. So in exchange for a small fine they increase their chances of winning the tour which is worth a hell of lot more than that fine is.

It was really poor sportsmanship and even if cycling is cut throat, purposefully breaking the rules because you know the repercussions not affect you is just disgusting.

Apparently it was legal at that point so no fine necessary.

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [gregf83] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 16:55

Post #543 of 792 (11211 views)

according to whom?

gregf83 wrote:

Apparently it was legal at that point so no fine necessary.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Turd Ferguson] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 17:31

Post #544 of 792 (11155 views)

That dude is overflowing with awesomeness.

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 17:47

Post #545 of 792 (11129 views)

Carl Spackler wrote:

That dude is overflowing with awesomeness.

Froome may be winning Le Tour, but Sagan is winning cycling.

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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 18:15

Post #546 of 792 (11082 views)

Agree with you 110%!

Makes me wonder who is more awesome on a bike: Peter Sagan or Chuck Norris

_________________________________________________
When all is said and done. More is usually said than done
Ba Ba Booey

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 18:38

Post #547 of 792 (11041 views)

jackmott wrote:

according to whom?

gregf83 wrote:

Apparently it was legal at that point so no fine necessary.

http://www.news.com.au/...h34s7u-1226679401390

Quote:

At the time, many thought this move was outside the rules but the race officials had announced, over race radio, that feeding was allowed at this point. The move was legal and it was smart.

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [giorgitd] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 19:01

Post #548 of 792 (11012 views)

giorgitd wrote:

Don't neglect the ride before the Ventoux today. I'm not sure that comparisons with past Ventoux ascents will be equivalent due to the length from the gun to the foot of the climb today. Granted, the stars are protected - but the pace during the first couple of hours was pretty high today. That should have taken some additional strength from the legs before the climb in a way that may not have been the same in the past.

For me, here's the thing...Quintana looked gassed as the crossed the line. He put it out there today. Pretty much everyone did, among the top finishers, except one. Ventoux is hard (or so I'm told). But, at the finish, Froome looked pretty energetic. He looked like he could be helicoptered to the foot of the Ventoux and climb it again, no problem.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice - nope, ain't gonna happen.

Quintana attacked between 12 and 13km to go. Froome sat in until 7.5km to go before he attacked and only took 29 seconds out of him. Hardly otherworldly. Contador is not the man he was. Again he finish with Kreuzinger. That does not indicate that his form is all that spectacular. If Froome was making an on form Contador look silly you might have a point, but that's obviously not the case.

I'm not a Froome fanboy, I'm just a fanboy of people using logic and actual evidence before they make statements like this. You don't seem to be doing either.

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [nslckevin] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 19:07

Post #549 of 792 (11002 views)

your relativistic logic is just as fallacious. Just sayin'

nslckevin wrote:

I'm not a Froome fanboy, I'm just a fanboy of people using logic and actual evidence before they make statements like this. You don't seem to be doing either.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: 2013 TdF thread (spoiler alert) [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]

Jul 14, 13 19:42

Post #550 of 792 (10952 views)

ericM40-44 wrote:

your relativistic logic is just as fallacious. Just sayin'

nslckevin wrote:

I'm not a Froome fanboy, I'm just a fanboy of people using logic and actual evidence before they make statements like this. You don't seem to be doing either.

How so? Contador isn't even the best of the rest. Contador took 6 seconds from Mollema and 13 from Ten Dam. Does that indicate he's riding well? Ten Dam and Mollema are good, but on equal footing with Contador in the mountains? Hardly.

So what is your "evidence" that Froome is doping? That he won? Is that the new standard?

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

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