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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly this, it’s a mindset. Dickinson knows he’s no medal threat in the individual but has shown he’s willing to bury himself on the individual in service of Yee.
Jonny’s undoubtedly the more humble Brownlee brother, but he’s never gone into a race where his own chance of a medal wasn’t at least somewhere in his mind.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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So if the theory is that Johnny would’ve run faster but for his work on the bike, does this portray him as a tactically savvy racer?

Wasn’t the objective of the whole exercise to show he can run a quick 2k?

Instead he “works hard on the bike” to do what, gap the field that he’s supposed to comfortably outrun? And also give a pull to his main competitor that he’s specifically there to outrun?

Really struggling to understand what he was trying to do.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
Last edited by: kajet: Jun 2, 24 10:45
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [sidelined] [ In reply to ]
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sidelined wrote:
Not so sure
Briwnlee had the fastest heat
Also has the experience
Think it will be a very difficult decision

in deed the 2nd and 4th finisher are number 173 and 404 in he world ranking respectively . i am of course somewhat joking as they are both fast guys and up and coming talent ,but still as an british selector ,tonight you will sleep about as well as kat mathew s bike mechanic...

btw kajet the polish speaking commentator was really into the race, his dad must have been a brasilian soccer commentator. i hope trevor and helen were watching for inspiration.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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So if the theory is that Johnny would’ve run faster but for his work on the bike,//

Not a theory I proposed, you must confuse me with someone else..


My thoughts on the race from the selectors point of view were that it might have just been to see Johnny's form. It may be him they have been looking at the entire time, just needed a validation to choose him. We kind of have the same thing going on in our US womens selection. Kirsten has proven she is competitive for that 3rd spot, but it feels like they have just been waiting for Katie to show she has the form for it. As in Katie was always going to be the pick as long as she could show something before selection, which she did...


My point about Johnny working hard on the bike was just to illustrate that he could be if needed, a great domestic for Alex. I think he knows his run form is not competitive anymore at the 10k, and certainly not burying himself there in the individual would keep him super fresh for the MTR..
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pk] [ In reply to ]
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pk wrote:
btw kajet the polish speaking commentator was really into the race, his dad must have been a brasilian soccer commentator. i hope trevor and helen were watching for inspiration.


LOL I was hoping he'd stop screaming for the sake of foreign audiences... but would you show some respect because it's Robert Wilkowiecki's coach you're talking about. That's right, they didn't use a single professional commentator, hence the excessive exuberance in the studio. Filip Szołowski, in addition to coaching Wilkowiecki and others, was the race organizer, which must've fueled his excitement.

A former short course elite, he currently owns the biggest race organizing company in the country that he founded that puts on 17 or 18 events a season, including an 11-race self-branded series sponsored by Garmin. He's also Sports Director at the Polish Triathlon Union, where he crunches numbers and rankings to strategize Polish athletes' starts and lobbies World Triathlon to grant conti cup / European Championship status to events in the country.

Oh, and he co-hosts a popular triathlon podcast.

Why am I writing all this? Because the son of a Brasilian soccer commentator is actually a mega VIP in the Polish triathlon world. So I don't know, maybe it's slightly funny if you contrast his numerous serious roles with his emotional behavior in the studio...
Last edited by: kajet: Jun 2, 24 12:39
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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kajet wrote:
pk wrote:
btw kajet the polish speaking commentator was really into the race, his dad must have been a brasilian soccer commentator. i hope trevor and helen were watching for inspiration.


LOL I was hoping he'd stop screaming for the sake of foreign audiences... but would you show some respect because it's Robert Wilkowiecki's coach you're talking about. That's right, they didn't use a single professional commentator, hence the excessive exuberance in the studio. Filip Szołowski, in addition to coaching Wilkowiecki and others, was the race organizer, which must've fueled his excitement.

A former short course elite, he currently owns the biggest race organizing company in the country that he founded that puts on 17 or 18 events a season, including an 11-race self-branded series sponsored by Garmin. He's also Sports Director at the Polish Triathlon Union, where he crunches numbers and rankings to strategize Polish athletes' starts and lobbies World Triathlon to grant conti cup / European Championship status to events in the country.

Oh, and he co-hosts a popular triathlon podcast.

Why am I writing all this? Because the son of a Brasilian soccer commentator is actually a mega VIP in the Polish triathlon world. So I don't know, maybe it's slightly funny if you contrast his numerous serious roles with his emotional behavior in the studio...

lol that is too funny i was not aware the voice was filip i am aware of most of the non commentator stuff.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
,
We really dont know what the selectors were looking for in this last race, was it winner take all, or were they just looking to see form? If the latter, then the pick is Johnny for sure...

If the point was for Jonny to show form, what was the point of having Dickinson and Milner there?

Bottom line is that they are both pretty evenly matched, so from a performance perspective you don’t need to lose too much sleep over the decision. Beyond that it comes down to fairness, and having some kind of objective process, both of which would dictate that SD should go as he was first across the line in the trial. I’m not sure what else you could expect the guy to do?
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
So if the theory is that Johnny would’ve run faster but for his work on the bike,//

Not a theory I proposed, you must confuse me with someone else..


My thoughts on the race from the selectors point of view were that it might have just been to see Johnny's form. It may be him they have been looking at the entire time, just needed a validation to choose him. We kind of have the same thing going on in our US womens selection. Kirsten has proven she is competitive for that 3rd spot, but it feels like they have just been waiting for Katie to show she has the form for it. As in Katie was always going to be the pick as long as she could show something before selection, which she did...


My point about Johnny working hard on the bike was just to illustrate that he could be if needed, a great domestic for Alex. I think he knows his run form is not competitive anymore at the 10k, and certainly not burying himself there in the individual would keep him super fresh for the MTR..

I am not sure Jonny would be a good domestique for Alex given their history. They were in completely different training groups in Leeds for a reason. When Jonny criticised Alex after Leeds the others had a “one more yee” hashtag especially GTB and Jess L.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [monty] [ In reply to ]
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monty wrote:
Serious question. What can Dickinson do that Brownlee can't, in your opinion? //

Exactly. We just watched a race where Johnny worked much harder on the bike and for sure with his experience, he would know more on how to do the things that matter as a domestic. The run has nothing to do with that decision, as that person is not really expected to run, or run well..


I think in the end Johnny is the better and safer pick, this race showed he is on form. Yes he got beat by a couple seconds, but there is the experience factor to consider in the really. There are so many scenarios that can happen and you want someone who understands that before it happens and not someone who reacts after. Not saying that Dickinson would do that, but just odds from experience say that Johnny would be the better pick there.


We really dont know what the selectors were looking for in this last race, was it winner take all, or were they just looking to see form? If the latter, then the pick is Johnny for sure...

JB has never raced in a domestique role. Not once.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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Adman wrote:
monty wrote:
Serious question. What can Dickinson do that Brownlee can't, in your opinion? //

Exactly. We just watched a race where Johnny worked much harder on the bike and for sure with his experience, he would know more on how to do the things that matter as a domestic. The run has nothing to do with that decision, as that person is not really expected to run, or run well..


I think in the end Johnny is the better and safer pick, this race showed he is on form. Yes he got beat by a couple seconds, but there is the experience factor to consider in the really. There are so many scenarios that can happen and you want someone who understands that before it happens and not someone who reacts after. Not saying that Dickinson would do that, but just odds from experience say that Johnny would be the better pick there.


We really dont know what the selectors were looking for in this last race, was it winner take all, or were they just looking to see form? If the latter, then the pick is Johnny for sure...


JB has never raced in a domestique role. Not once.

Perhaps, unless you count all the races he did with brother Alistair;)

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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SheridanTris wrote:
monty wrote:
So if the theory is that Johnny would’ve run faster but for his work on the bike,//

Not a theory I proposed, you must confuse me with someone else..


My thoughts on the race from the selectors point of view were that it might have just been to see Johnny's form. It may be him they have been looking at the entire time, just needed a validation to choose him. We kind of have the same thing going on in our US womens selection. Kirsten has proven she is competitive for that 3rd spot, but it feels like they have just been waiting for Katie to show she has the form for it. As in Katie was always going to be the pick as long as she could show something before selection, which she did...


My point about Johnny working hard on the bike was just to illustrate that he could be if needed, a great domestic for Alex. I think he knows his run form is not competitive anymore at the 10k, and certainly not burying himself there in the individual would keep him super fresh for the MTR..

I am not sure Jonny would be a good domestique for Alex given their history. They were in completely different training groups in Leeds for a reason. When Jonny criticised Alex after Leeds the others had a “one more yee” hashtag especially GTB and Jess L.

This is 100% the reason why JB has never domestiqued for AY and has positioned himself for MTR selection. Hence the extension to the qualification period and this race being the last selection opportunity.

He's been given every opportunity this season has trained exclusively for this race. His expression at the end said it all. Was beaten by a guy over the MTR distance fair and square, who has been burying himself for AY all season.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
Adman wrote:
monty wrote:
Serious question. What can Dickinson do that Brownlee can't, in your opinion? //

Exactly. We just watched a race where Johnny worked much harder on the bike and for sure with his experience, he would know more on how to do the things that matter as a domestic. The run has nothing to do with that decision, as that person is not really expected to run, or run well..


I think in the end Johnny is the better and safer pick, this race showed he is on form. Yes he got beat by a couple seconds, but there is the experience factor to consider in the really. There are so many scenarios that can happen and you want someone who understands that before it happens and not someone who reacts after. Not saying that Dickinson would do that, but just odds from experience say that Johnny would be the better pick there.


We really dont know what the selectors were looking for in this last race, was it winner take all, or were they just looking to see form? If the latter, then the pick is Johnny for sure...


JB has never raced in a domestique role. Not once.

Perhaps, unless you count all the races he did with brother Alistair;)

Ha ha ha ha ha ha
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [Adman] [ In reply to ]
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I think most of you are missing that they are looking for the second relay guy, not a domestique for Alex Yee, which clearly doesn't need one as shown in Cagliari.
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [pier87] [ In reply to ]
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pier87 wrote:
I think most of you are missing that they are looking for the second relay guy, not a domestique for Alex Yee, which clearly doesn't need one as shown in Cagliari.

If Dickinson can help Yee (why not? he is a good swimmer and can work in the bike, you never know what can happpen) and is even with JBrownlee for the MTR, take the guy, 2 roles in 1.

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P
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Re: Official (formerly) ITU leading to 2024 discussion thread…. [tim_sleepless] [ In reply to ]
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If the point was for Jonny to show form, what was the point of having Dickinson and Milner there? //

Seems pretty obvious, but I guess I can spell it out..They raced because they are racers, they are in competition against each other and fighting for spots on their teams, and also for funding from their NGB. They were there to beat Johnny and everyone else they could, to show their form at this moment, that's why they were there, and to make some money..


Now my suppositions are just that, I think you take them for me stating a fact, or that I think this what will happen. It is just that "IF" they were just looking for Johnny's form, what better gauge than the two guys that would/will replace him on the team. What if he took a massive dump in this race, then it would be a different conversation. And that includes those two guys, so that is also why they raced, to be in the conversation...But Johnny didnt take a dump, he was right there in the mix for the win within seconds. So that is why he was there, to show where and what he has at this moment when the selectors have to make a hard decision..


And to that, I have not, am not making any recommendation on what they should do really, seems fine either way in the grand scheme. I can see a reason for either pick, and it is legitimate. Maybe they were told that whoever wins this race is going, but I think not. I dont know what is in their minds, but I can guess..
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