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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
runningeconomy wrote:
Talbot had a pretty absurd take in PTN's latest pod saying that the women's race dynamic hasn't changed much. They're a bit out of their depth without Chelsea Burns when talking about short course.


Just take Yokohama 2013-2015 (2016 was non-wetsuit) which Gwen all won. She swam front pack in those races swimming 19:01, 19:18, 19:18. (20:30 in 2016). The front pack swam 18:20 yesterday which is 5% faster than Gwen's median time at her peak. To be fair she still swam 18:56 yesterday.

The bike is where things things have changed a lot. She rode 1:03:30, 1:04:29, 1:03:58, 1:01:51 from 2013-2016. The winners of Yokohama from 2021-2024 have all had bike times between 58-59 minutes. So that's 5 minutes or 7.5% faster.

Now it's no question that Gwen is a beast on the run with splits of 32:44, 33:43, 32:36, 32:15 in pre- super shoes. She ran the second fastest yesterday at 32:56.

I'm sure tri-stats can make a more detailed comparison of time gaps across eras, but to say that race dynamics haven't changed much is misinformed. It's a disservice to the current athletes. To people like Duffy who pushed the competition to another level.

It doesn't help that Talbot, Kyle, and Patrick can't be objective when arguing Gwen's case. But she's no longer a front-pacl swimmer. The other women are riding harder. And she can't run herself into the podium anymore at this level.


The HABs club of PTN tends to put out incredibly ignorant takes and shows their biases and sometimes posteriors way to often. If they want to more than a sideshow they could clean it up a whole lot.

Adman wrote:


Talbot didn't know what ITU was in 2016.

He's good for the sport with the quality of content he produces. But overall Tri knowledge needs a bit of work.


https://triathlon.org/athletes/profile/98846/talbot_cox


Pretty sure the homie had dreams at one point. But also was dating someone on the ITU circuit back then...

Never heard of the guy, but a quick Google looks as if he's Lionel's jock sniffing camera man? Lol won't be in my Spotify downloads.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [buzzsaw] [ In reply to ]
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buzzsaw wrote:
Never heard of the guy, but a quick Google looks as if he's Lionel's jock sniffing camera man? Lol won't be in my Spotify downloads.

To be fair, that probably tells us more about you (and your knowledge of the sport) than about Talbot.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
Never heard of the guy, but a quick Google looks as if he's Lionel's jock sniffing camera man? Lol won't be in my Spotify downloads.


To be fair, that probably tells us more about you (and your knowledge of the sport) than about Talbot.

Not really! Outside of the US I would assume most people see him for what he is. And that isn’t the producer of a professional podcast.

He is embarrassing with his bias and stupidity.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
runningeconomy wrote:
Talbot had a pretty absurd take in PTN's latest pod saying that the women's race dynamic hasn't changed much. They're a bit out of their depth without Chelsea Burns when talking about short course.


Just take Yokohama 2013-2015 (2016 was non-wetsuit) which Gwen all won. She swam front pack in those races swimming 19:01, 19:18, 19:18. (20:30 in 2016). The front pack swam 18:20 yesterday which is 5% faster than Gwen's median time at her peak. To be fair she still swam 18:56 yesterday.

The bike is where things things have changed a lot. She rode 1:03:30, 1:04:29, 1:03:58, 1:01:51 from 2013-2016. The winners of Yokohama from 2021-2024 have all had bike times between 58-59 minutes. So that's 5 minutes or 7.5% faster.

Now it's no question that Gwen is a beast on the run with splits of 32:44, 33:43, 32:36, 32:15 in pre- super shoes. She ran the second fastest yesterday at 32:56.

I'm sure tri-stats can make a more detailed comparison of time gaps across eras, but to say that race dynamics haven't changed much is misinformed. It's a disservice to the current athletes. To people like Duffy who pushed the competition to another level.

It doesn't help that Talbot, Kyle, and Patrick can't be objective when arguing Gwen's case. But she's no longer a front-pacl swimmer. The other women are riding harder. And she can't run herself into the podium anymore at this level.


The HABs club of PTN tends to put out incredibly ignorant takes and shows their biases and sometimes posteriors way to often. If they want to more than a sideshow they could clean it up a whole lot.

Adman wrote:


Talbot didn't know what ITU was in 2016.

He's good for the sport with the quality of content he produces. But overall Tri knowledge needs a bit of work.


https://triathlon.org/athletes/profile/98846/talbot_cox


Pretty sure the homie had dreams at one point. But also was dating someone on the ITU circuit back then...

Broken dreams ha ha. Oh do tell us more.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
https://triathlon.org/athletes/profile/98846/talbot_cox


Pretty sure the homie had dreams at one point. But also was dating someone on the ITU circuit back then...

Lol Kyle finished just ahead of Talbot in that aquathlon.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [Lurker4] [ In reply to ]
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I don't disagree with this, as Gwen clearly is a step below on both the bike and swim, but being in the group where getting the huge benefit of a draft could help her. Either way, I would think she has missed this opportunity because of the swim primarily, and the bike secondarily and it was an entertaining experiment. Watching Gwen run through the field in the 2012-2016 era was very impressive and seeing that possibly happening in 2024 was a fun idea.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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Gwen was never going to be running through the field in 2024, there are too many now with similar 10k pb times to Gwen.
Saturday's winner Leonie Perrault , recently ran 32:31 for a 10k and there are others more well known.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [sidelined] [ In reply to ]
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Just watched this video post race Yokohama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8HFzkUx90 , min 4.08 onwards.... man, she cannot be that "arrogant" in an interview. If she did not get a good result, you must accept that things have changed, difficult job for the interviewer. Compare her attitude to Spivey who was left out of Tokyo and still smiling not having assured her ticket to Paris... I really have been rooting for Gwen but she is also complaining that is out for Cagliari...well, she´s got 5 women ahead in the ranking, including Ackerlund who is not in the start list for Cagliari (neither Yokohama nor Abu Dhabi...I ignore if she has been injured) subbed in by Zaferes.

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P
Last edited by: juanillo: May 21, 24 10:35
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
Just watched this video post race Yokohama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8HFzkUx90 , min 4.08 onwards.... man, she cannot be that "arrogant" in an interview. If she did not get a good result, you must accept that things have changed, difficult job for the interviewer. Compare her attitude to Spivey who was left out of Tokyo and still smiling not having assured her ticket to Paris... I really have been rooting for Gwen but she is also complaining that is out for Cagliari...well, she´s got 5 women ahead in the ranking, including Ackerlund who is not in the start list for Cagliari (neither Yokohama nor Abu Dhabi...I ignore if she has been injured) subbed in by Zaferes.

I saw that interview too. She came across as not a nice person. Way too soon after realizing that her Olympic dreams were done to be doing an interview. Hopefully she takes sometime to figure out what's next for her.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
Just watched this video post race Yokohama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8HFzkUx90 , min 4.08 onwards.... man, she cannot be that "arrogant" in an interview. If she did not get a good result, you must accept that things have changed, difficult job for the interviewer. Compare her attitude to Spivey who was left out of Tokyo and still smiling not having assured her ticket to Paris... I really have been rooting for Gwen but she is also complaining that is out for Cagliari...well, she´s got 5 women ahead in the ranking, including Ackerlund who is not in the start list for Cagliari (neither Yokohama nor Abu Dhabi...I ignore if she has been injured) subbed in by Zaferes.
Think that assessment is a bit unkind. Spivey, with that result, (#4) may not have AQ'd but she's surely stamped her selection ticket. Jorgensen has tried super hard; some cards have fallen her way to get to 5th USA and a start in a WTCS race by right (care with which rankings you use). But the interview was immediately after the denouement of her comeback campaign and it'd be amazing if she were not disappointed (not "arrogance": she deserved a Cagliari start but Zaferes, for USA national reasons, deserved it more. When you saw Rappaport just hanging around at/off the back of the main chase group (with Jorgensen maybe 3 wheels ahead) I still think USAT made a decision error by not subbing Rappaport out for Zaferes (to allow both mums to race Cagliari given there's no AQ opportunity there): but hey, it's done now.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
Just watched this video post race Yokohama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8HFzkUx90 , min 4.08 onwards.... man, she cannot be that "arrogant" in an interview. If she did not get a good result, you must accept that things have changed, difficult job for the interviewer. Compare her attitude to Spivey who was left out of Tokyo and still smiling not having assured her ticket to Paris... I really have been rooting for Gwen but she is also complaining that is out for Cagliari...well, she´s got 5 women ahead in the ranking, including Ackerlund who is not in the start list for Cagliari (neither Yokohama nor Abu Dhabi...I ignore if she has been injured) subbed in by Zaferes.

She didn't strike me as arrogant but just nasty and mean. Haven't been a fan of her since the 2016 shenanigans.

The interviewer was nice, after the second dig, I would have gone: "You failed to make the Oly athletics team, now the triathlon team, which sport is next?"
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
Just watched this video post race Yokohama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8HFzkUx90 , min 4.08 onwards.... man, she cannot be that "arrogant" in an interview. If she did not get a good result, you must accept that things have changed, difficult job for the interviewer. Compare her attitude to Spivey who was left out of Tokyo and still smiling not having assured her ticket to Paris... I really have been rooting for Gwen but she is also complaining that is out for Cagliari...well, she´s got 5 women ahead in the ranking, including Ackerlund who is not in the start list for Cagliari (neither Yokohama nor Abu Dhabi...I ignore if she has been injured) subbed in by Zaferes.

can i ask what do you think she said wrongly.

i dont really think you can compare something that happened 3 years ago with something that happend 1 hour or so ago. and for spivey 4th place with an american on the podium is a pretty solid case to get the ticket. and she was not subbed out for cagliari...

unlike the gwen whinners at pro tri news we should stay with the facts here, and she was the 5th ranked athelte for yokohama and cagliari.
i think given that katie was ahead of her in the olympic ranking it was fair each athlete got one chance. but as the athelte its 100 percent understandable she is not happy about it ,and on top of it being the 30th in the waiting list when she had earned a starting place.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
Just watched this video post race Yokohama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8HFzkUx90 , min 4.08 onwards.... man, she cannot be that "arrogant" in an interview. If she did not get a good result, you must accept that things have changed, difficult job for the interviewer. Compare her attitude to Spivey who was left out of Tokyo and still smiling not having assured her ticket to Paris... I really have been rooting for Gwen but she is also complaining that is out for Cagliari...well, she´s got 5 women ahead in the ranking, including Ackerlund who is not in the start list for Cagliari (neither Yokohama nor Abu Dhabi...I ignore if she has been injured) subbed in by Zaferes.

I am not a Gwen fan since she trashed Tri when she left but tbh that is just an interview with a disappointed athlete not an arrogant one.

I am a huge fan of fairness so I don’t think she should have been subbed out for Cagliari.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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LOL, some people really hate Gwen in these forums.

Not a fan, but I have to echo what you and others have said. Nothing arrogant about anything she said in the interview.

"FTP is a bit 2015, don't you think?" - Gustav Iden
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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kajet wrote:
LOL, some people really hate Gwen in these forums.

Not a fan, but I have to echo what you and others have said. Nothing arrogant about anything she said in the interview.

I don't think people "hate" her, that's a strong word. But she was clearly being difficult for the sake of being difficult to the interviewer.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [kajet] [ In reply to ]
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Ya, I watched it while eating a bowl of yogurt and berries, so maybe I was in too good of a mood and focused on my food, but I didn't get ANY of that vibe that's being talked about. My feeling hearing her talk was that she seemed to be looking at all the positive sides and not being too negative.

I guess I should watch it again and see how I feel when I'm hangry.
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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SheridanTris wrote:
juanillo wrote:
Just watched this video post race Yokohama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df8HFzkUx90 , min 4.08 onwards.... man, she cannot be that "arrogant" in an interview. If she did not get a good result, you must accept that things have changed, difficult job for the interviewer. Compare her attitude to Spivey who was left out of Tokyo and still smiling not having assured her ticket to Paris... I really have been rooting for Gwen but she is also complaining that is out for Cagliari...well, she´s got 5 women ahead in the ranking, including Ackerlund who is not in the start list for Cagliari (neither Yokohama nor Abu Dhabi...I ignore if she has been injured) subbed in by Zaferes.

I am not a Gwen fan since she trashed Tri when she left but tbh that is just an interview with a disappointed athlete not an arrogant one.

I am a huge fan of fairness so I don’t think she should have been subbed out for Cagliari.
I wanted Gwen to race all the WTCS but if we compare her with zaferes:(i add wtcs results and head to head)

wcts yokohama: zaferes not racing gwen 15th
wc Viña del Mar: zaferes dsq when was 1st gwen 1st
wtcs pontevedra: zaferes 19th gwen 43th
paris test event: zaferes 12th gwen no racing
wtcs sunderland: zaferes not racing gwen 24th
wtcs hamburg: zaferes 16th gwen 30th
wtcs montreal: zaferes 5th gwen not racing
wtcs cagliari: zaferes 13th gwen lapped
wc huatulco: zaferes 13th gwen: 2nd
Ac missouri: zaferes 1st gwen: 2nd

Zaferes also came back after her pregnancy and is the current olympic bronze medal. I think she deserves a spot for Cagliari if we look at the numbers... now we can speak if Gwen could race instead of Knibb (knibb is the american no.1 and needs racing before the games, Cagliari is the last full distance race before Paris) or Rappaport. The fact is that Kasper is 15th in the oly ranking, zaferes 18th, ackerlund 37th and gwen 39th...the american third spot is there because Kasper and Rappaport have done their job. All of them have reasons to race, same as Gwen. Now she is one amongst others, no privileges because she is not the no.1 anymore. Hard to swallow but these are the facts.

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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Arrogance is a giant misrepresentation of that interview, and not really fair to Gwen at all. She certainly was disappointed and not in the mood to talk about it right after, but she put her chin up and did the interview anyway..

I think mostly what appeared to be snide comments, were from the uninformed questioner in the interview. Of course most of us all here know that sitting 30th on the waitlist for Calagri means 99.999% not start, but apparently the interviewer did not know this..And perhaps a language issue, but his questions did seem a bit antagonistic towards her, but hey, that is the game they are all playing. She handled it fine...

Yes if they could go back in time, it would have been nice to sub out Rappaport instead of Gwen, but cases can be made for either when the decision was made, and only now more apparent that it should have been otherwise. But for the selectors, that 3rd pick did just get a lot harder with Kasper's great performance, and she would be fine on the relay as a sub if needed too. Great swim and bike, good transitions, and a solid run, one that looks better the shorter the race...
Last edited by: monty: May 22, 24 9:46
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Re: Gwen Jorgensen Paris Olympics [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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fwiw, Gwen's been doing a lot of cx and road racing in Colorado in the past year. Won the State RR on Sunday. Was second to Caroline Mani in the sprint in Saturday's crit. Definitely much improved on the bike.
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