Could it simply be that you simply were in 21 min shape and by pushing to 20 min you went into the red zone too much hence compromised the rest of the day? And what was your bike and running mileage compared to your PB days? It does seem to me as if you were fit but not PB fit. Work schedule is for many of us a bit more restrictive for training than school schedule.

I am not saying that swimming 20 k per week is a bad idea to perform at your best. But when someone like lightheir says that they swim 20 k per week and they are nowhere near a 20 min 1,500 m then it seems to me as if there is a quality issue somewhere.

general comment about those race paces they did.

We saw Sam has more take out speed, which is why he grabs groups better then Lionel in 70.3 races usually.

But then we see Lionel has better "skill speed pace" which everyone has x pace once tired you cant go faster and just hold it for ever as you are stuck at your "skill level".

one race of course but interesting

for example everyone goes x for 3 min then they basically hold their skill not there effort the harder they try it doesn't matter they are stuck at x pace for the next 27-65 min.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I just want to make sure I understand your post

Sam has more speed but less skill

Lionel has less speed but more skill

The skill being the ability to hold a higher sustained effort

Well yes and also swimming fast is a skill.

Really good Ironman swimmers have both - can go out fast and a high aerobic speed. This is what people who have swam with amberger say in training. They can hold him for a fast 100 or 150 but when they then settle back into longer efforts or aerobic freestyle, his baseline is just so much higher. And then off he goes - bye bye

take out speed ( swim speed under 3 min or run speed under 3 min ) is a different variable then skill.

for example you will meet a ton of guys that can muscle ( effort swim) 100- 200 m faster then alot of others or women but then breath heavy for 2 minutes and can't continue. they have a high power output but the oxygen need then slows them down.

your "swim skill speed/ pace" is the speed where you breathing matches your skill level and you can hold it for a long time.

both are great to have of course like josh or ali etc, but not everyone has them , Sam in that swim started a bit better but looking at those split he benefits much more swimming on feet then Lionel one would conclude.

like everyone in an Ironman hold the same pace ( just different per racer) min 3-75 if they can't draft, they are stuck at that "swim skill pace".

Sam crushed it today he looks super lean and ready right now!

Ali seems to like to suffer more then win?? Why not ice up more why not wear the cooling head band, why not run with the others early, hold the leaders heels till the last 3 km like you did on the bike.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

I think it depends on the individual. I've seen a lot of people get good results from increase in bike and run volume, then they get frustrated because they up their swim volume and plateau, largely because of technique issues. For me I was at my fastest when I was swimming lots and running lots and cycling little. I wouldn't even call it self-coached, I just did what I felt like doing on the day. I had a few coaches who shook their heads in dismay when they saw my Training Peaks data, halving my swim and run volume and doubling the bike. End result was I'd be gassed coming out the swim, feeling like shit for the first part of the bike because of the swim and be dreading the run which was often poor due to the lower volume.

I have read running helps riding and vice versa, but I've never noticed any correlation. I would say that after 4 months of just swimming (no bike or run) 35km a week, my bike and run were OK when I got back, slower, but not as slow as I thought. So if anything, for me, swim helps bike and run. There's no better feeling than running up the beach into T1 feeling fresh(ish) and no worse feeling than staggering up the beach into T1 breathing out your arse.

100% agree. You would need to sacrifice bike and run and possibly triathlon, focus on your swim and then you have a decent technique for life.

How is it that many threads turn into Lionel threads, and here we have an actual Lionel thread that has been completely off topic for pages?

If Sanders raced Miami T100 he would have gotten 2nd.

There, that better?

Thank you. Back on topic. Lol