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Low carb high fat - rebuked
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http://www.sbs.com.au/...athletes-study-shows

I've always been skeptical of this 'trend'. Why would what worked for us as athletes in the 80's and 90's not work now (high carb for endurance performance)?

Well here is a study from the Australian Institute of Sport that shows that indeed high carb is beneficial to endurance performance, and low carb high fat isn't.

(Now retreating under my shield)
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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I think of low-carb high-fat diet as a weight-loss diet. I don't think many athletes are on it.

There are some debate on whether a low-carb diet induced ketosis could improve steady state endurance performance.
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [bloodyshogun] [ In reply to ]
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bloodyshogun wrote:
I think of low-carb high-fat diet as a weight-loss diet. I don't think many athletes are on it.

There are some debate on whether a low-carb diet induced ketosis could improve steady state endurance performance.


I think many athletes are on it, here is one example:

http://www.triathlete.com/...utrition-tips_295422
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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One of the many opposing views...
https://cdn.fbsbx.com/...oe=5915CF67&dl=1

#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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The serious flaw in this study, and a fact I took up with Louise herself was the lack of a group that ate low(er) carb during training, used carbs strategically and then raced on tonnes of them.

I have been lower carb for years, using them as the rocket fuel they are.

In their desperation to prove everything right or wrong both these guys and the low carb groups are polarising, when the middle ground, metabolic flexibility is clearly the optimal.

Think of it this way, eat to REMOVE carb dependence. Don't live on sugar, have good and healthy fats.
Then during training/racing replace carbs as required with the best source for you.
For me this is simple sugars and complex starches.
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [Tom_Hughes] [ In reply to ]
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Yup, this is pretty much how I approach things. My baseline diet is ~2000 cals worth of veg, protein, healthy fats, etc. Then I top up with carbs as needed depending on how much exercise I'm doing that day. The days I'm not training at all I try to have zero sugar and keep carb portions fairly small and healthy (e.g. brown rice, oatmeal). The days when I'm doing a 5+ hour ride then I'll still get the healthy stuff in but I'll load up on pretty much whatever carbs take my fancy!

Not sure why people find diet so hard to understand. I'd have thought it was pretty obvious from the huge plethora of approaches out there that there's no one size fits all approach to nutrition, or to getting lean through exercise either for that matter. Usain Bolt sprints, lifts weights and eats chicken nuggets and is lean. Mo Farah runs 100 miles a week and eats a load of carbs and is lean. There was a debate in the office the other day about whether you should be losing weight by going long and slow, by doing HIIT training, or by diet alone. There were passionate advocates for each, people were getting really quite agitated. I tried pointing out that you could lose weight equally well using any one or any combination of those approaches and it was really just down to personal preference and having the discipline to stick to it. I got told my opinion didn't really count because I was just naturally thin, and they carried on arguing!
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [Tom_Hughes] [ In reply to ]
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This is the approach I have taken. I tried full ketosis for weight loss but I couldn't do any training beyond extremely slow efforts.

I now keep away from sugar and simple carbs, have lower carbs most days and get most from nuts, vegs, etc. The rest is balanced protein and good fats. Then when racing I load up on carbs as required.

I had a DNA test done and that showed that I have a very high sensitivity to carbs. Whether that is rubbish or not I don't know but the above approach has worked well for me in losing weight and training effectively.
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [iwaters] [ In reply to ]
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I also do best on a similar approach to carbs. I tried low carb but this approach approach works best for me taking enough to fuel for and recover from the training I'm doing.
Last edited by: Ian A: May 11, 17 1:53
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [iwaters] [ In reply to ]
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That's the way to go. Nothing white (flour, rice, sugar, potatoes, and cheese if you're trying to lose weight).

'It never gets easier, you just get crazier.'
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [Tom_Hughes] [ In reply to ]
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Just started implementing LCHF into my training. Easy now because I'm finishing up a recovery block and getting ready to enter a base building block. On non workout days keep Carb intake below 50 grams and on workout days keep it around 100. Most of articles I've read have advocated strategically using carbs before and after intense workouts
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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There are so many varying opinions on this because "performance" is all relative and can be defined differently for different athletes and event types. Of course, carbohydrate enables a higher level of intensity output. But not all event types require that.

For example, if I was doing a 48 hour race with limited support / aid stations, then I would follow an LCHF diet, since that would enable me to "perform at a sustained effort" without the need to carry a lot of food or rely on external sources. But for an Ironman, there is a virtually unlimited supply of carbohydrate every 10-15 miles, so I would for sure follow a high carb approach that would support a higher level of effort. Both examples require me to "perform" i.e get to the finish line as fast as possible, but the degree of effort in both races is vastly different. So basically, I am manipulating my body to be able to deal with the specific race circumstances and goals.

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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [robgray] [ In reply to ]
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robgray wrote:
There are so many varying opinions on this because "performance" is all relative and can be defined differently for different athletes and event types. Of course, carbohydrate enables a higher level of intensity output. But not all event types require that.

For example, if I was doing a 48 hour race with limited support / aid stations, then I would follow an LCHF diet, since that would enable me to "perform at a sustained effort" without the need to carry a lot of food or rely on external sources. But for an Ironman, there is a virtually unlimited supply of carbohydrate every 10-15 miles, so I would for sure follow a high carb approach that would support a higher level of effort. Both examples require me to "perform" i.e get to the finish line as fast as possible, but the degree of effort in both races is vastly different. So basically, I am manipulating my body to be able to deal with the specific race circumstances and goals.

You're one of the few people that would consider an Ironman a short high-intensity workout :D

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [georged] [ In reply to ]
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georged wrote:
That's the way to go. Nothing white (flour, rice, sugar, potatoes, and cheese if you're trying to lose weight).

So Kraft Singles are OK? Not white, not cheese.
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [georged] [ In reply to ]
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I think there are different things that work.

But I find it interesting that I thrive on kind of a Blue Zone dier. I eat a high amount of carbs and not too much animal protein and a bit of fat, mostly from coconut, nuts, avocados or the occasional fish.

I don't say high carb and eat bread and cookies and stuff. My carbs come from (white) rice and potatoes, chickpeas, millet, oats and fruit.
I also eat tons and tond of veggies but not much meat.
I am happy and satisfied after a I have eaten a good amount of carbs, even white rice. And white potatoes are one of my main staples.

From popular literature you would guess that I am not getting enough protein, that I am always hungry, that my blood sugar spikes up and down, that I get fat or at least skinny fat, that Iose muscle.

But I can tell you that my energy is on an all time high. That my legs get more powerfull and defined. That I am very lean. That my performance gets better and better. That food tastes awesome. And my recovery is good as well. At the same time I eat nountains of food.
And I can still ride four hours without fueling if I want, so fat metabolism should still work.

But I lead a very active lifestyle as well. And you often hear about native people from some islands that mainly eat carbs and are ripped, healthy and strong as hell.

For me, that works very well. Sometimes one has to try something that one wouldnt expect. I think we generally eat too much animal protein (or worry about it) and think carbs are all the devils work.
But everyone has to find out what works for him or herself.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]
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This should pretty much clarify everything.

A human being is NOT a machine.
A human being IS an animal.

Food IS NOT a "fuel" or "input."
Food IS plants, fungi and other animals.

(One exception- you are in a race that will last longer than 2.5 hrs. Then food might be "fuel").
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:


You're one of the few people that would consider an Ironman a short high-intensity workout :D


An Ironman is definitely a lot shorter when you eat enough carbs to put out a higher intensity.

It's almost like we are omnivores and can eat different things based on our needs, instead of just grass or just antelope.

And for the OP's original statement, Yes, carbs increase performance. Duh. But after X years, your pancreas wants to exit the building to go join David Crosby's liver in the dumpster behind the mini-mart.

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
Last edited by: ZenTriBrett: May 11, 17 11:18
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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ZenTriBrett wrote:
RowToTri wrote:


You're one of the few people that would consider an Ironman a short high-intensity workout :D


An Ironman is definitely a lot shorter when you eat enough carbs to put out a higher intensity.

It's almost like we are omnivores and can eat different things based on our needs, instead of just grass or just antelope.

And for the OP's original statement, Yes, carbs increase performance. Duh. But after X years, your pancreas wants to exit the building to go join David Crosby's liver in the dumpster behind the mini-mart.

My cat eats corn chips.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:

My cat eats corn chips.


"My cat's breath smells like cat food." - Ralphie Wiggum

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
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Re: Low carb high fat - rebuked [Tom_Hughes] [ In reply to ]
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This is standard traditional carbo-loading that has been around for decades. I seem to recall that this loses its effectiveness, though, if used more frequently than about once per month or so, i.e. it won't work weekly. So, save the carbs for your A race! ...and if you've been eating carbs throughout your training, the pre-race pasta dinner really won't do anything extra for you!
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