The praying mantis is position is not even close to the Superman position. Two completely different positions.

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My intent wasn't to claim they were the same...but now it does feel kind of silly using the ambiguous '/' to save myself from typing 'or'.

RIght and I don't think we give TJ just enough credit for how good his .cDa is given his body size. It really works for him. I would like to move to a full mantis setup myself, but I want to do it right and my current aerobar setup does not allow it.

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Uh-huh......You realize "it" is singular, right? So when you say "IT would become commonplace" or "uses IT regularly" you are saying they are the same thing.

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Yeah, that's why I brought it up. I came over to road from triathlon, and I'm 6'3". And I ride steep, like a triathlete. At one event where it was unclear if UCI rules would be enforced, so I thought I'd better check to see if I could make it compliant "in the field" and prepared myself for fit armageddon. But it wouldn't have been too hard, taking the morph-exemption at the saddle and accepting a few cm shorter extensions, and (at the time) moving the hands a bit lower. They didn't end up enforcing, thankfully, though.

Sigh. Only on slowtwitch would someone freak the hell out over suspected ignorance over the extremes of TT position.

I'm on the World Hour Record Discussion group on Facebook, I understand me my superman history!

I apologize for my imprecise language.

Agreed. In fact, I'd say grossly overstating the difference.

Maybe not full superman, but something closer to it. Maybe. And maybe not commonplace either, but a certain Graeme obree used it pretty well on road tt's as well as on the track.

You'd still have bullhorns for descents and stuff.

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They put out crazy watts which makes up for massive aero sins. I will say having studied a number of them IMO that width matters more than height. So many people focus on getting low, low, low and I think getting narrow trumps height. You can actually create a smaller footprint in a higher position AND still generate a ton of watts. My $0.02.

Road TTs that Obree did in the UK are mostly non technical out/back courses.

Without the rules riders would be in fully faired recumbents designed with enough handling/braking capabilities to cope.

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If you compmare the best proTT riders to pro triathletes the difference is probably due more to the demands of the event as much as anything else - distance, swim before, run after, etc. The UCI rules are there but with some recent changes more latitude in position is possible. An example is the 10 cm vertical distance from the arm rests to the end of the aero bars.and not level as in the past. A mild mantis position is possible as shown by TJ. Very tall riders such as myself are slightly constrained but with some patience is possible to get a great position with the UCI constraints.

Certainly a full superman position is probably faster than a great UCI legal position as shown by world hour records ( both male and female absolute records set in the superman position are a couple of km faster than the current UCI legal positions ) but in pursuit the current records in legal positions are faster than those in superman positions and neither was set at alditude.

I don't see anyone trying to ride a superman position in tri even though it's very very fast. constraints of the sport. How about an equally fast Obree "egg" position. Try to hold either for 4 plus hours. Good luck with that.

I think with MOP triathletes or Cat 4 ( sorry - not trying to offend either ) most have equally slow positions but that just observation

Back to demands of the event: I have a pretty aggressive UCI legal,position ( 22 cm drop from saddle to arm rest, I use 5 cm morph exception so 85 cm from saddle nose to bar ends and 5 cm setback with an ISM saddle ) . I can ride for 40 km or more hard no issue but I tried to relax it slightly and ride a 170 km event. There is no way on earth I could run 5 km after that . 42 ? Shoot me please.

Many triathletes better in the TT than very good road riders? You forgot the pink font.

I don't see many Triathletes even in the Pro ranks with aggressive positions. There is a reason for this, they have to run afterwards and they are on the bike much longer. Here is a bunch of 50 + age grouper doing a TTT on a day with 50 mph cross wind gust. Being so windy and a Team TT, everyone has their heads up and sitting pretty high. But anyone of these guys position would rival the better positioned Triathletes.

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