Interesting (1st ever?) announcement re: swim timing device at IM MD race briefing

Oct 5, 17 12:27

Post #1 of 45 (5513 views)

IM MD is Saturday and I went to the briefing today because I've never done this race. The announcer said that it may be a first ever for this in an Ironman so I thought I would share. I have no idea about the application of this to other races or if this is a "pilot" or "beta" test but...

They said there will be a wire in a PVC tube to record a swimmer crossing the first lap of the (2 lap) swim. So basically it is an in-water timing mat.

I don't know if it will actually give split times or if it just to record the crossing as a cheat deterrent. It will be interesting to see if this rolls out across WTC and USAT races eventually.

-Doug

It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates

Last edited by: DougEFresh: Oct 5, 17 16:32

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 12:30

Post #2 of 45 (5495 views)

DougEFresh wrote:

IM MD is Saturday and I went to the briefing today because I've never done this race. The announcer said that it may be a first ever for this in an Ironman so I thought I would share. I have no idea about the application of this to other races or if this is a "pilot" or "beta" test but...

They said there will be a wire in a PVC tube to record a swimmer crossing the first lap of the (2 lap) swim. So basically it is an in-water timing mat.

I don't know if it will actually give split times or if it just to record the crossing as a cheat deterrent. It will be interesting to see if this rolls out across WTC and USAT races eventually.

-Doug

I heard a story about someone slipping over a swim timing mat (not in water) a few months ago. I wonder if has more to do with that than what you suggest.

Save: $50 on Speed Hound Recovery Boots | $20 on Air Relax| $100 on Normatec| 15% on Most Absorbable Magnesium

Blogs: Best CHEAP Zwift / Bike Trainer Desk | Theragun G3 vs $140 Bivi Percussive Massager | Normatec Pulse 2.0 vs Normatec Pulse | Speed Hound vs Normatec | Air Relax vs Normatec | Q1 2018 Blood Test Results | | Why HED JET+ Is The BEST value wheelset

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 12:33

Post #3 of 45 (5464 views)

This has been in the works for some time now. I've heard race officials talk about it before. Maybe it was at IM Florida when I did that in 2013. That is also a 2 lap swim but the difference is they force the athletes to get out of the water and get back in between laps. You do not do that at IM Maryland.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Last edited by: japarker24: Oct 5, 17 12:37

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 12:37

Post #4 of 45 (5427 views)

That's a good point. There are a number of IMs with two lap swims and beach runs between laps. CdA, Placid, FL all come to mind. I should have said that this is a 2 loop all inwater swim with no beach part in between.

It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 12:40

Post #5 of 45 (5399 views)

In Europe a lot of the races have an "aussie exit" at some point of the swim now, usually in between laps of a multi-lap swim, but sometimes at other points that might otherwise be cuttable. I'd always assumed this was to make sure everyone completed the required course and not just so that your loved ones could see you properly at some point of the swim!

Having said that, I've also done plenty of non-WTC tris where your chip time starts as you pass through the start buoys in the water, so it's certainly not a new technology.

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 12:43

Post #6 of 45 (5378 views)

No inflatable turtle? Bah.

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [spudone] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 12:47

Post #7 of 45 (5362 views)

Well it's funny you say that. They did say there will be "floating lily pads" you can rest on in the swim. I haven't done a full IM in 2 years but I've never heard of that either.

It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 12:52

Post #8 of 45 (5328 views)

DougEFresh wrote:

...... "floating lily pads" you can rest on in the swim. ......

These have been around for a few years. Part of the "Swim Smart" initiative.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 13:35

Post #9 of 45 (5186 views)

Since I knew at least one person 1st hand that cheated and did not do 2 laps at IMLT, or another at a local race in my AG stated one way too early, etc. yep, they need to get better control that folks are starting the swim correctly, and swimming the course the RD did correctly. So if it is 2 loops either make folks get out and over a timing mat or if it can work in the water, have a water map so folks do not cut the course.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 14:05

Post #10 of 45 (5073 views)

h2ofun wrote:

Since I knew at least one person 1st hand that cheated and did not do 2 laps at IMLT, or another at a local race in my AG stated one way too early, etc. yep, they need to get better control that folks are starting the swim correctly, and swimming the course the RD did correctly. So if it is 2 loops either make folks get out and over a timing mat or if it can work in the water, have a water map so folks do not cut the course.

It’s just a hobby, why get worked up if someone is cheating themselves??

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 14:20

Post #11 of 45 (5022 views)

I don't know what frequency timing chips operate in (I suppose it might be possible to look up...but, I'm being lazy). Frequencies above 30 KHz will only travel a very short distance underwater (inches). So, unless the timing chips are operating below 100KHz (being generous), it is unlikely that actually "works". As such it may be more alternative-facts to act as a deterrent.

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 14:55

Post #12 of 45 (4886 views)

wait for it..... :)

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 14:56

Post #13 of 45 (4883 views)

well played, sir :)

Jctriguy wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Since I knew at least one person 1st hand that cheated and did not do 2 laps at IMLT, or another at a local race in my AG stated one way too early, etc. yep, they need to get better control that folks are starting the swim correctly, and swimming the course the RD did correctly. So if it is 2 loops either make folks get out and over a timing mat or if it can work in the water, have a water map so folks do not cut the course.

It’s just a hobby, why get worked up if someone is cheating themselves??

__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 15:14

Post #14 of 45 (4810 views)

Tom_hampton wrote:

As such it may be more alternative-facts to act as a deterrent.

Yep. My first thoughts too. Most of the newer timing chips probably use UHF band: 300 MHz - 3 GHz. For reference a 2.4GHz signal travels about ~10cm in fresh water before you start losing all the data (salt water is worse). It's probably just a scare tactic.

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [Rage KG] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 15:20

Post #15 of 45 (4782 views)

At IM Korea last month, we had something similar - at the end of the the first half (wasn't a lap as we didn't exit the water) we had to swim under a giant yellow inflatable (funnel type thing) which recorded our split. It was mentioned in race briefing as a way to make sure there was no course cutting.

At the time, I thought it was more of a control and wouldn't actually be a timing device, but we did get a split time for the swim.

My race site: https://racesandplaces.wixsite.com/racesandplaces

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [Rage KG] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 15:21

Post #16 of 45 (4777 views)

Yep. I actually got less lazy and did go look. So, it appears that the original timing chips from the 80's used 134 KHz....VLF (<30 KHz) works up to about 20m...so, 134 KHz "miiight" still be good for a few meters and therefore work depending on how close to the surface you were willing to run the timing loop.

But, as you note newer systems are built on RFID, and operate in the UHF band....no way that works reliably under water.

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 15:22

Post #17 of 45 (4775 views)

That's how they time marathon swimming events in open water. Except they wear the chips on their wrists and I believe the wire may be above water. Pretty cool that they are bringing it to Ironman though!

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [Jigsy] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 15:24

Post #18 of 45 (4768 views)

That could work more effectively since the timing mat would be in the inflatable and not underwater. Cool idea!

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement at IM MD race briefing [Rage KG] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 17:29

Post #19 of 45 (4553 views)

They can use that technology on the run course when the roads flood.

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement re: swim timing device at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 5, 17 18:07

Post #20 of 45 (4472 views)

FINA does this... nothing new. Each swimmer has 2 chips 1 per wrist.

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement re: swim timing device at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 7, 17 9:11

Post #21 of 45 (4014 views)

Hey Bud, sounds like you are at IM Maryland today, I am planning on signing up for next years race and I was hoping I could get whatever discount they give to people that sign up today/tomorrow. If you hear anything please PM thank you and good luck!

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement re: swim timing device at IM MD race briefing [DougEFresh] [ In reply to ]

Oct 7, 17 9:19

Post #22 of 45 (3999 views)

I spoke with them a couple months ago about how best to do it. It doesn't go underwater; it went over the water between two sausage buoys about 40 feet apart. During the race, it seemed to work well.

http://www.magnoliamasters.com
http://www.snappingtortuga.com
http://www.swimeasyspeed.com

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement re: swim timing device at IM MD race briefing [realAB] [ In reply to ]

Oct 7, 17 10:05

Post #23 of 45 (3954 views)

realAB wrote:

FINA does this... nothing new. Each swimmer has 2 chips 1 per wrist.

Same chips and wires we use for IRONMAN. We don't use RFID stuff there. IMMD had the wires on a bracket a couple of feet above the water. Could use PVC too.

Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.asia | sylvan@sportstats.asia | Starvas

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement re: swim timing device at IM MD race briefing [ec6863] [ In reply to ]

Oct 7, 17 20:30

Post #24 of 45 (3686 views)

I'm sorry I didn't hear anything. I am going to roll down tomorrow so if they mention something I'll post it.

It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates

Re: Interesting (1st ever?) announcement re: swim timing device at IM MD race briefing [sylvan] [ In reply to ]

Oct 7, 17 20:37

Post #25 of 45 (3678 views)

Correct. It was in a floating thing that reminded me of the inflable "swim exit" gates at races. They funneled us through it as we finished loop 1 and just before loop 2. Originally when they described it at the race briefing it seemed like it might be in-water. As you said, it was hanging in the floating thing a few feet above the water.

It is the mind itself which builds the body.
-Joseph Pilates

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.