I'm going to channel my inner Forge.....If police could get this amount/quality of dashcam video to back them up, they should be able to unceremoniously execute people like the pick-up driver on the side of the road.

Only after the pickup driver gets to execute the Camaro driver.

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War is god

With no intentions of flaming the coals on this thread (thus responding to you :) ), I'm not really sure why people are dumping on the pick-up driver here.

If you look carefully, right up until the arrival of the Camaro, there is actually another car in front of the pick-up (look carefully and the shadow can be seen perhaps 20 yds in front). The Camaro passes everyone on the right then arrives and tries to force their way into a gap that doesn't exist. The pick-up rightfully enforces their place. It wasn't the pickup truck causing the Camaro to pass on the right.

Then the Camaro starts acting like a real ass and the pick-up starts doing what I bet everyone else here would be inclined to do - be in no particular hurry to let someone like that on their way. It's only later that we see the gap to the car in front (of the pickup) opens up.

If the pickup wanted to be a real ass they would have been pumping the brakes from the onset.

It goes back to one of the earlier points made. It's the person driving aggressively that is responsible for the accident. No one is forcing the Camaro to jump into that gap and pass as quick as possible. The impatience of the Camaro led to two drivers being on edge. It was always going to be confrontational from that point on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWPCE2tTLZQ

You are correct that it is 100% the Camero's fault up until the pickup decides to match speeds with the semi. Then it was a pissing match between the two of them. Pickup was trying to teach the Camero a lesson and was probably thinking he would let him pass as soon as he stops hugging his bumper.

This. Also, I'd love to see the aftermath of the wreck. Doesn't look like anyone would've been injured (maybe Camaro driver?) but that was probably one fun wrestling match to see.

They both deserved it tbh, the one somewhat innocent bystander is the semi driver. Is there much he could've done? Dude's gonna catch shit for that at work, too, which sucks for him.

Sure, fault the Camaro as much as you want for being a dick, passing on the right, trying to cut off the pickup. If I were in the pickup I'd say a fwe choice words, maybe hit the brakes hard once to keep him honest, then go about my day.

Sitting shoulder-to-shoulder with a semi in this situation for a couple of minutes is asking for trouble. Stupid shit like this is why a stupid wreck like this happens. Pickup truck driver should've let it go and been on his way, he probably would've forgotten about the asshole Camaro driver by the time he got home. Instead his truck is wrecked and he probably got some wrestling in, maybe spent some time in a jail cell and will be in court off and on for the next year. Stupid.

Ultimately the Camero caused the accident but both drivers should be shot. I hate both fucking types of drivers. Those 2 fuckers risked the lives of everyone driving in their vicinity and for what? To prove a point and the other to save a couple of fucking minutes while driving. Assholes is to light of term for both of them. I never wish anyone hurt in an accident but I really hope they both totaled their cars and have the misery of traffic fines to boot.

I constantly point out to my soon to be driving daughter cars that speed and run a red (speed up through yellow but the light is red by the time they get to it) on how yup I stopped and then oh look at that... their little stunt saved no time becasue look we are now right beside them at the next light.

Anywho...

The problem is people not appreciating that they are behind the wheel of machines that I believe still kill more Americans than anything other than disease. Around 34,000 in 2014. That is a ridiculously high number of people for a modern first world country.

It's a pity people think they're invincible in cars and continue to act like tough guys when driving. As shown it's innocent people like the truck driver who get caught up in it.

Edit: by 'truck' I mean semi

Up until he did brake check the Camero and then started the rolling road block with the semi, he was ok.

This is a typical situation where slow pokes are the root cause of accidents.

The 2 semis are travelling at the max cruising speed, which was slower than most of the other traffic.

The problem starts when a slow poke pulls out into the left lane to "pass" the semis. If they don't match the speed of the rest of traffic, and take their sweet time in "passing" the semis, it creates a rolling traffic jam for no reason at all. They should speed up and actually pass the trucks in a reasonable time, or slow down and just follow the semis.

Now there is a long line in the left lane, inviting impatient drivers to try to zoom up in the right lane and then cut back into the left lane.

The OJ (original Jackass) in this was the car in front of the pickup (or whoever was leading the slow conga line). Keep up or get out of the way.

Once the Camero made his move, the real trouble begins. It was a dick move by the Camero, and he kept it up by tailgating, but the pickup engaged with him, and continued and escalated it.

Once the car in front of the pickup had cleared the semi, and the pickup had an opportunity to move into the right lane and end the issue, he was now breaking the law by impeding traffic by travelling slower than the speed of traffic.

Now you seem to think that the Camero driver and the probably 20 cars behind them should just be content to drive along 10-15mph slower just because that's what the pickup driver wants to do. He's welcome to drive whatever speed he wants, but he can't unilaterally impose that speed on everyone else.

Passing on the shoulder? Total jackass move and ultimately caused the wreck, but the pickup driver had no idea if the Camero driver had just been shot and was rushing to the hospital, or was an undercover cop following chasing a rape/murder suspect, or it was Jack Bauer tracking down a stolen nuclear weapon. Why be a dick and block him and everyone else, just to be a dick?

Yeah that's a good point, and one that gets lost in all this. Happens ALL the time, you have semis all over the road and people take their sweet-ass time passing them, traffic piles up in the passing lane, someone cuts to the right and BAM you have an unsafe situation. It's especially bad in 3+ lane roads, because the traffic piles up in the passing lane then the impatient asshole passes everyone INCLUDING the semi on the right, and it presents all kinds of danger to everyone else.

I drive fairly fast, but I'm always observant and trying to stay two steps ahead of both the slow/unobservant drivers and the assholes pulling BS stunts like this Camaro driver.

I obviously don't agree with people saying such drivers are the "cause" of the accident. The speed of that outer lane was not ridiculously slow. You didn't see the pick-up driver throwing his arms up in the air about the hidden car in front. Neither the pick-up nor the dash-cam car were veering side to side trying to see what the massive hold up was. The "cause" of the accident is impatient people, in this case the Camaro driver. They are the ones making the rash decisions. There is no one else to blame.

Agree. Though it seems like there's a wide chasm of opinions as to what is 'reasonable'. People passing at 5-10 over shouldn't be forced to rapidly accelerate because some impatient idiot wants to suddenly pass at 30 over.



As was said earlier, right up until the point of brake check the pick-up driver had done nothing wrong. I don't recall seeing brake lights (did they just take their foot of the accel? not important though). I ask you to put yourself in the pick-up driver's position. The Camaro person flies by your right side, tried to force their way in front and nearly runs you off the road. Then jumps in behind you and tailgates immediately. Do you allow their behaviour to bully you into driving how they want you to (noting no one else behind you was trying to impose their will on you - because you weren't at fault), do you keep driving at the same speed you were driving, or do you impose some counter-measures? Option 1 is weak and endorses the behaviour of the Camaro driver. Option 2 is in my mind the best course of action but takes a lot of patience, which many don't have. Option 3 can (in this case) be dangerous but it not unexpected. I believe there would be some proponents of the 'pass or get out the way' crowd that would invoke a bit of street justice if put in the same position. Doesn't make it right, but I'd understand it. If I was dash-cam driver and saw a brake check I'd also tolerate being impeded for a short period to see Camaro get their just desserts. But in this case, with the mentality of Camaro, it was the wrong decision.



Slower than what, the speed limit? The free speed of traffic? The speed is unknown as is the number of cars behind; but it's fair to make some assumptions. Maybe the free speed was 5-10 more than the OJ. The line was getting past the semi's, so it appeared that everyone other than the Camaro driver was content to wait until OJ had passed the semis and moved over. They might not have been thrilled about it (fair enough), but they were content enough to be patient. But Camaro couldn't want that long. It's these people who think their time is more important than those around them and are prepared to pass at all costs that put everyone's lives at risk. They are the risk takers.

I don't understand the logic with people deciding on their own speed limit but it's obviously varies by country (and it would seem even by state within a country). The problem seems to when this approach occurs in environments that have regulated limits, because there are always going to be a mix of people who decide to drive at their own comfortable speed (self regulate), and those who tend to gravitate towards the signs that state a 'regulatory' limit. Seems like you guys would be better served either having clear autobahn environments or agreeing to comply with limits. The middle ground (self regulation in a regulated environment) doesn't work well.

But when it comes to individuals deciding what rules to follow, where do you draw the line? Do you run reds when it's clear? Roll stop signs all the time? Park in clearways etc? The road environment is not really a place where you want to permit free will, because everyone's opinion differs. 34,000 lives per year is evidence of that. Patience is the best attribute a driver can have.

There's not a chance in hell that the person blocking a lane is more dangerous than the person speeding.

I'd disagree with this. Driving is a ballet and is all about the flow of traffic. Watch a car race where speeds are 200+ MPH. The "Dangerous" people on the track are the ones that don't follow the flow of traffic, not the speeders.

The flow of traffic regardless of speed is that the left lane(s) are used for passing. When you block the passing lane you cause the person to slow down. Even if they do so in a safe manner and safe distance you end up causing a chain reaction thru the line of traffic that unless everyone in that chain are perfect drivers eventually ends up with someone slowing suddenly causing the most common automobile collision, rear end collision.

The flow of traffic and law in many places is, stay left unless passing. When people are blocking the flow of traffic by reaming in the left lane causing people to pass on the right or simply blocking both lanes with another car, they are, IMO, more dangerous then a column of cars driving over the speed limit but doing so with the flow of traffic.

I'm not a big speeder these days. I drive in the right lane and let people pass. When I pass someone I go around and pay attention to people coming up behind. I speed up to get in the right lane to prevent them from slowing if at all possible. When in large groups of cars, in cities and multiple lanes, I drive the speed of the traffic regardless of what it is because that is FAR safer then driving 10-15 MPH below the flow of traffic speed. Anyone who has driven in large groups and came up in a slow moving vehicle would know this.

~Matt

The problem is people not appreciating that they are behind the wheel of machines that I believe still kill more Americans than anything other than disease.

Heart disease, cancer then accidents. Makes sense if you think about. I probably know 10X more people that have died from heart attacks and cancer then I do who have died in car accidents or any accidents. This becomes more and more true the older you get :-)

~Matt

he Camaro person flies by your right side, tried to force their way in front and nearly runs you off the road.

He had his blinker on and even though he's an ass for passing on the right the entire thing could have been avoided by the truck slowing and letting him in.

The truck driver is a douche, Camaro driver is a douche and when you have so much douchery in the same location it creates a critical mass causing a douchsplosion that always ends up with innocent bystanders getting hurt.

~Matt

The difference being that in almost every instance the traffic accident is completely avoidable. Think about it, 34,000 people per year whose time really didn't need to be up.

Before you start, I said 'almost' ;)

  

So, when you see someone driving "dangerously", you want to stay near them and antagonize them more?

So, when you feel someone is trying to "impose their will on you", you decide to really show them and impose your will on them. (Forcing them to slow down)

The pickup could have either let the Camaro in initally and backed away to stay safe. He and everyone behind would be one car farther back in traffic, but safe.

Or he could have blocked him like he did (which I don't really have a problem with, the Camaro should have gone behind and ahead of the dash cam guy since there was a decent gap there), but kept up with the car in front of him and then moved over to the right lane as soon as possible (which is the law anyway). He wouldn't have been delayed at all, and everyone would have stayed safe.

It's odd that you are so adamant about not letting other people force you to speed up or move over, but think it's "just desserts" to force them to slow down.

Just a regular day on the CA Interstate 5 in the Valley.

Every time I drive this stretch, I encounter several dozens of "Camaro" drivers, and luckily less of the angry, stoned or sleep-deprived farm-workers in their 'pickups'.

But yeah, it is just the normal crazy for I 5, and every time I drive that stretch, you bet my dash cam is running nonstop.

That bloke with the camera was lucky. He was closer than he should have been. He should have dropped back. If something had happened causing the pickup to lock up. He'd have rear ended the camaro, be had no exit to the right due to the truck.

I'd loved to have seen video of the followup conversation.......

The difference being that in almost every instance the traffic accident is completely avoidable.

A significant portion of heart disease and cancer can also be avoided by a change in lifestyle. If we all were perfect human beings with no faults or bad habits more then likely more of us would die of old age.

What point are you trying to make that people should live their lives more perfectly or that driving in the left lane slowing the flow of traffic is perfectly acceptable? To some degree I completely agree with the first option but I also think that if a person wants to smoke a pack of cigarettes a day or drive 70 in a 65 both are personal choices that they should have the personal freedom to choose and that it is safer for both of us if I don't take the cig from his mouth or attempt to block both lanes or make him pass on the right.

~Matt

For whatever it's worth, this occurred on I-90 in/near Batavia, New York. The Camaro driver had a BAC of .19, had no valid driver's license, and was arrested, charged and then indicted. From the third link: "(Camaro driver) Thapa has now been indicted on six counts of second degree reckless endangerment, DWI, aggravated DWI and felony aggravated unlicensed operation." The guy with the dashcam says he saw the Camaro driver driving erratically 40 miles earlier (I assume it's the Camaro driver, because the dashcam driver quote includes the vague pronoun "him" in an article about the Camaro driver).

http://www.news5cleveland.com/...houlder-causes-crash

http://www.syracuse.com/...harged_with_dwi.html

http://www.wkbw.com/...using-crash-indicted

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War is god

On my drive to the store on my way home from school today, I got on the freeway where it is a 60mph zone, and then was sitting pretty in the right lane doing 66-67, then as I see some slower traffic (just a handfull of cars) ahead I move to the left (completely clear behind me), and I'm slowly catching them, and then right as I was near them the speed limit changed up to 70, and the ten or fifteen cars in a pack that I'd just caught all slowed down to 55. For no. Damn. Reason. And they stayed that way.

This has nothing to do with the conversation except that I don't mind (safe) speeders, and hate too slow of traffic.

Now excuse my while I go re install my exhaust manifold, carbs and entire fuel system, new exhaust, and pull the radiator instead of doing homework.

Post pics.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Will do, soon. It'll be a few days before it's done due to the fact that I got some completely incorrect gaskets for some spots on the engine block so those will be in and hopefully big progress happens Thursday. Will post pics of current disassembled stage as well as parts probably tomorrow.

Was just out in the garage snapping some quick photos, and will either post them here with some little blurbs about the process so far, or at the risk of derailing a thread (ha! That's never been done before) and being publicly flamed, i'm debating starting a new thread and just updating it with stuff as it happens, any input?

Regardless, I ain't editing photos (for now) and you get what you get!
(Unless you wanna see something specific, then i'm more than happy to oblige)