Worst Job Ever?

Apr 10, 17 9:26

Post #1 of 64 (5577 views)

Candidate 1: The United Airlines Public Relations Crisis Manager

I just came across this in my news Feed: "A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight. So he was dragged off, battered and limp."
Apparently they overbooked the flight, forcibly ejected some paying passengers. And then gave the seats to United employees.
Regardless of how this went down this looks bad as a headline for Untied.

And that got me thinking of how often I've seen United in the news in similar customer service scandals.

There was the case a few weeks ago when two girls were denied boarding because they were wearing leggings ( http://www.cnbc.com/...united-airlines.html ) It should not have been a scandal but for about a week there were headlines in both left and right leaning papers that made it seem like United was 2 steps away from demanding young girls wear hijabs. Then there was the recent scandal where United carried a money losing flight to provide the Chairman easy transport to his house in S.C. - it involved bribery and effectively stole from the shareholders.
And all this made me think back to a case study I read in business school about the power of viral social media and how it can affect companies. United had the grand-daddy of all these when a viral music video describing what happened gathers tens of millions of views. https://en.wikipedia.org/...nited_Breaks_Guitars

The funny thing is that no matter how crappily airlines seem to treat their customers, they don't seem to lose business over it. The overwhelming factor in the industry is price - as long as your flight is $20 cheaper than the competitors you get the business.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 9:34

Post #2 of 64 (5555 views)

I thought this was a thread about Sean Spicer....

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 9:39

Post #3 of 64 (5529 views)

Yeah. Not much room to spin that other than "Hey, he now has a great story to tell when he books his next flights with ABU."

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 9:51

Post #4 of 64 (5493 views)

I remember getting this t-shirt by mail order from a hot rod magazine back in the 70s

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 9:55

Post #5 of 64 (5481 views)

This guy, always and forever:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...hes-dead-bodies.html

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Re: Worst Job Ever? [j p o] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 9:59

Post #6 of 64 (5464 views)

I know someone whose community service hours were spent hosing out garbage trucks ... during the summer

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 10:02

Post #7 of 64 (5450 views)

Guffaw wrote:

The funny thing is that no matter how crappily airlines seem to treat their customers, they don't seem to lose business over it. The overwhelming factor in the industry is price - as long as your flight is $20 cheaper than the competitors you get the business.

Make your business a commodity with an incredibly high barrier to entry - you're guaranteed to always win. Essentially airlines are a monopoly, despite there being "choice." You are stuck as a consumer in the race to the bottom, and everyone gets on board because they are forced to.

Re: Worst Job Ever? [j p o] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 10:08

Post #8 of 64 (5431 views)

j p o wrote:

This guy, always and forever:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...hes-dead-bodies.html

4 dives a month?? Boohoo cry me a river.

I miss YaHey

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 10:16

Post #9 of 64 (5418 views)

Leggings?...

Or leggings?...

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Re: Worst Job Ever? [redfox29] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 10:23

Post #10 of 64 (5400 views)

redfox29 wrote:

Guffaw wrote:

The funny thing is that no matter how crappily airlines seem to treat their customers, they don't seem to lose business over it. The overwhelming factor in the industry is price - as long as your flight is $20 cheaper than the competitors you get the business.

Make your business a commodity with an incredibly high barrier to entry - you're guaranteed to always win. Essentially airlines are a monopoly, despite there being "choice." You are stuck as a consumer in the race to the bottom, and everyone gets on board because they are forced to.

No.
It is quite the opposite.
Airlines always lose.
Airlines are driven by price competition into a perpetual fight to the death.

Every 8 years every airline goes bankrupt.
The airlines jettison their debt.
And start all over, selling airline tickets at a loss.
Repeat... every 7 years.

Recently airlines are trying to make money with weird fees and penalties.
"This ticket IS transferable but only if you pay $600."
We will see if that works.

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 10:44

Post #11 of 64 (5357 views)

The South Carolina fiasco was about the Chairman of the Port Authority of NY/NJ, not of United. Essentially he told United that they could get their new hangar at Newark if they established a flight directly from there to somewhere in SC. A total money-loser, but they got their hangar. When Samsom was forced to resign, they stopped the flights the next day. Samson later pled guilty to federal bribery charges.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

Re: Worst Job Ever? [j p o] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 10:47

Post #12 of 64 (5352 views)

j p o wrote:

This guy, always and forever:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...hes-dead-bodies.html[/quote[/url]]
+
HRC's Gynecologist

All I Wanted Was A Pepsi, Just One Pepsi

Team Zoot, Team Zoot Mid-Atlantic

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 10:50

Post #13 of 64 (5336 views)

Pepsi should release a commercial with Kendall Jenner walking back from first class and handing the flight crew Pepsis.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:07

Post #14 of 64 (5291 views)

Guffaw wrote:

Candidate 1: The United Airlines Public Relations Crisis Manager

I just came across this in my news Feed: "A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight. So he was dragged off, battered and limp."
Apparently they overbooked the flight, forcibly ejected some paying passengers. And then gave the seats to United employees.
Regardless of how this went down this looks bad as a headline for Untied.

And that got me thinking of how often I've seen United in the news in similar customer service scandals.

There was the case a few weeks ago when two girls were denied boarding because they were wearing leggings ( http://www.cnbc.com/...united-airlines.html ) It should not have been a scandal but for about a week there were headlines in both left and right leaning papers that made it seem like United was 2 steps away from demanding young girls wear hijabs. Then there was the recent scandal where United carried a money losing flight to provide the Chairman easy transport to his house in S.C. - it involved bribery and effectively stole from the shareholders.
And all this made me think back to a case study I read in business school about the power of viral social media and how it can affect companies. United had the grand-daddy of all these when a viral music video describing what happened gathers tens of millions of views. https://en.wikipedia.org/...nited_Breaks_Guitars

The funny thing is that no matter how crappily airlines seem to treat their customers, they don't seem to lose business over it. The overwhelming factor in the industry is price - as long as your flight is $20 cheaper than the competitors you get the business.

On the positive side, based on the backlash I've seen/heard today United probably solved their overbooking issues for a while.

Re: Worst Job Ever? [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:18

Post #15 of 64 (5263 views)

sphere wrote:

Pepsi should release a commercial with Kendall Jenner walking back from first class and handing the flight crew Pepsis.

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Re: Worst Job Ever? [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:18

Post #16 of 64 (5259 views)

The overbooking thing drives me nuts, and with the frequency that it occurs, I'm not surprised this finally happened. Surely they could have handled it differently, but presuming the airline retains the right to cancel a reservation (and if they do, I'm guessing they all do), and they were prohibited from flying due to capacity restrictions, what choice did they have? They selected randomly, and the guy played the "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM !?!" card--we all have important places to be, otherwise we wouldn't shell out a few hundred bucks for the flight--and threw an adult sized temper tantrum. My sympathy level for the good doctor is hovering around zero.

Life throws curve balls sometimes. Act like a damn grown up.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: Worst Job Ever? [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:25

Post #17 of 64 (5244 views)

Apparently federal law allows the airlines to pay up to about $1300 to get someone to volunteer to give up their seat. United was only willing to offer people on this flight 800 bucks for some reason.

Not sure why federal law even limits the amount an airline can pay for that, but at the least, United should have gone up to the legal max.

Also, the reason they needed to kick off four people was so that they could fly some employees to the destination to work another flight. Should have bumped the staff and figured out some other manpower solution. The good doctor paid his money for a specific flight. I get that there's some bullshit fine print, but the airline should have to honor its basic contractual obligations.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: Worst Job Ever? [vitus979] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:33

Post #18 of 64 (5229 views)

Quote:

Rule 21 Refusal of Transport

UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense....
UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request.

Like I said, there were probably a few other good options before resorting to force, though we don't really know the details of why it may have been necessary to keep them on that flight schedule.

It seems like they were in full compliance with their contractual obligations, from what I've read. They should have offered a sweeter compensation for a flight bump to avoid having to enforce it, though. They've been getting skimpier by the year, in my experience, to the point where it's barely worth it even when I'm not on a tight schedule.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Re: Worst Job Ever? [vitus979] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:37

Post #19 of 64 (5220 views)

<<lso, the reason they needed to kick off four people was so that they could fly some employees to the destination to work another flight. Should have bumped the staff and figured out some other manpower solution. The good doctor paid his money for a specific flight.>>

That's what got me about this story too. If it was 2 paying customers and 1 got randomly selected for a bump, then I kind of get it (though the overbooking principle bugs me in the first place). But to hose a customer like that in order to give preference to your staff just looks terrible.

Re: Worst Job Ever? [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:38

Post #20 of 64 (5219 views)

It seems like they were in full compliance with their contractual obligations, from what I've read.

Eh. Like I said, bullshit fine print. You pay for a ticket, you expect to fly.

Their staffing incompetency isn't the passenger's problem. I find it hard to believe there was no other solution other than flying those four staffers instead of four paying customers. And yeah, they definitely should have offered more money if they didn't get any takers.

Guy acted like a childish brat, but United is to blame for the situation, start to finish. Overbook a flight, unable to come up with an alternative staffing solution, refuse to offer enough to motivate someone to give up their seat . . . Lose, lose, lose.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: Worst Job Ever? [wimsey] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:51

Post #21 of 64 (5183 views)

It's a bad look, for sure. So what is an airline supposed to do in these instances? Presuming the overbooking is necessary to maintain reasonable rates, or whatever, and that all airline personnel on board were essential: If they're over capacity, they can't fly. Someone has to go. The airline reserves the right to cancel a reservation and remove passengers in order to comply with federal regulations. Do they sit on the tarmac indefinitely, and make everyone who wasn't randomly selected suffer the consequences? Do they allow a person who is no longer a passenger to effectively hold the plane hostage? I'm not saying the airline did everything possible to avoid this outcome--they manifestly did not--but at the end of the list of possible resolutions exists the option, or necessity, of forcibly removing a person from the aircraft. It only became an outrage because he squealed and flopped around like a drama queen.

The airline deserves the bad press for the way they handled it, skipping from resolution option C or D, directly to option Z. And the doctor ought to be embarrassed for how he behaved in response.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Last edited by: sphere: Apr 10, 17 11:54

Re: Worst Job Ever? [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 11:59

Post #22 of 64 (5163 views)

sphere wrote:

It's a bad look, for sure. So what is an airline supposed to do in these instances? Presuming the overbooking is necessary to maintain reasonable rates, or whatever, and that all airline personnel on board were essential: If they're over capacity, they can't fly. Someone has to go. The airline reserves the right to cancel a reservation and remove passengers in order to comply with federal regulations. Do they sit on the tarmac indefinitely, and make everyone who wasn't randomly selected suffer the consequences? Do they allow a person who is no longer a passenger to effectively hold the plane hostage? I'm not saying the airline did everything possible to avoid this outcome--they manifestly did not--but at the end of the list of possible resolutions exists the option, or necessity, of forcibly removing a person from the aircraft. It only became an outrage because he squealed and flopped around like a drama queen.

The airline deserves the bad press for the way they handled it, skipping from resolution option C or D, directly to option Z. And the doctor ought to be embarrassed for how he behaved in response.

As vitus suggested in a prior post, they need to find a different way to solve their manpower issue at the destination (assuming they've first tried everything else, like offering up to the max amount to volunteers, which it sounds like they didn't). If they're over capacity, then their personnel who are trying to catch a ride should be the first ones out of luck. I understand that is not what the rules of carriage say - I get that they are probably within their rights to do what they did. What I'm saying is that they shouldn't have done it even though they were within their rights to do so.

Re: Worst Job Ever? [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 12:01

Post #23 of 64 (5159 views)

sphere wrote:

Quote:

Rule 21 Refusal of Transport

UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:

Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense....
UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request.

Like I said, there were probably a few other good options before resorting to force, though we don't really know the details of why it may have been necessary to keep them on that flight schedule.

It seems like they were in full compliance with their contractual obligations, from what I've read. They should have offered a sweeter compensation for a flight bump to avoid having to enforce it, though. They've been getting skimpier by the year, in my experience, to the point where it's barely worth it even when I'm not on a tight schedule.

Just because i've wasted a bunch of work already and just as devil's advocate.... (but yes in the end had they offered enough someone would have taken it)

What in Rule 21 did they comply with? He didn't breach the contract, there is no government request that he leave (only after he cops came, but that's cart before the horse, there has to be a valid reason for that removal request), #3 is just a CYA saying we're not liable if you're bags don't make it.

The applicable section is I think Rule 25, which sets forth the procedures for denial of boarding. And whether they complied is what they mean by "boarding" which they don't define. "denial of boarding." when does /can that occur/ Before getting on the plane? while in your seat. From a legal standpoint it can be argued wither way. From the report, which is probably as inaccurate as it is accurate, they selected randomly, which is not in line with Rule 25.

Re: Worst Job Ever? [sphere] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 12:09

Post #24 of 64 (5130 views)

Presuming the overbooking is necessary

You already lost me.

I know that's the airline's rationale, but it really is bullshit. They're literally selling more product than they intend to or are capable of providing. It should be illegal. I'm pretty sure it would be for just about any other business.

and that all airline personnel on board were essential:

Essential and irreplaceable? I have a hard time buying that. If they are, United should build a good bit more redundancy into their staffing. What if one of them was sick? The nation's air travel system would crash?

Do they sit on the tarmac indefinitely, and make everyone who wasn't randomly selected suffer the consequences?

I'd be more willing to engage that question if United had even taken all the options available to resolve the situation- but it didn't, it was only willing to offer about 60% of the money it's allowed to offer to bump a passenger. And if it had gotten to the max (which, again, probably shouldn't be legally limited in the first place), it should have gotten creative with the incentives. Instead, they nickel and dimed the process, and then called in some goons.

It only became an outrage because he squealed and flopped around like a drama queen.

Well, yeah, but I don't particularly care about some doctor who throws a tantrum. I care about how the airlines treat their passengers, because I am a frequent passenger. Doctor acted like a child, but it did expose United's attitude towards its customers.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Last edited by: vitus979: Apr 10, 17 12:14

Re: Worst Job Ever? [wimsey] [ In reply to ]

Apr 10, 17 12:12

Post #25 of 64 (5118 views)

As with bumping the staff, chances are strong union contracts playing into this. If the staff is a pilot, he is probably has to fly a minimum of x amount of hours or they pay him for doing nothing. He has to be home after so many flights or United has to pay him extra. I'm not completely sure how the pilot contracts work but they are paid by hours in the air not a flat salary.

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