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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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You keep saying that but have not proffered any proof in support. Instead, you keep back pedaling.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Caterpillar didn't buy Bucyrus a few years ago because coal is dead. Wake up.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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nobody in the millennial generation wants to work in the pit in this day and age

We could just have immigrants from mexico do it.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [JSA] [ In reply to ]
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JSA wrote:
You keep saying that but have not proffered any proof in support. Instead, you keep back pedaling.


I offered the original url. And how about this.


Last edited by: cerveloguy: Mar 2, 17 20:06
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
JSA wrote:
The US exports coal and could export a great deal more.

Well that will be just great for the environment and global warming. Plus how it the USA going to compete against China or India in coal exporting when you consider labor costs? Do you think any American workers are nowadays willing to work in the pit for low wages?

This one hits a bit too close to home as my grandfather on my mom's side was a coal miner in Wales who died in his early 50's of occupational respiratory complications when I was a small kid. I'm sure he never aspired for his grandchildren to grow up to be coal miners.

A good.portion of their coal is from Australia IIRC
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source

My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.

CHINA IS AN IMPORTER OF COAL. Read the Reuters article recently about how coke producers in China are gearing up because of smelters demands. Coal is only "dead" because of EPA regulations. Now if they can burn coal close to as clean as natural gas ain't no Thang to see a revival. I wouldn't get long coal companies but your position is irrational based on evidence.
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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.[/quote]

Bull shit. Where have I blamed the worker? I generally support workers and strong unions i[/quote]
That's a load of horseshit unless you have had a change of heart about Cuba.
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
Ringmaster wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
Rodred wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.


Sorry Canuckian but you may have to adjust your optimist appraisal. Literally two after the election coal shipments by rail went crazy, along with evil oil and fracking sand. A power plant near Detroit ordered 52 train loads of coal a month. That's 100+ railcars per train which I believe converts to 5trucks per railcar which is all going to being fired up shooting some coal dust your way. Enjoy.


Glad you know more than Yale. Where is your source? And 52 train loads a month is fuck all in the big picture.


The author of the article isn't from Yale. He's a professor at the West Virginia University College of Law.

Coal is definitely on the decline, but it's far from dead. Last year was the first time in the US that natural gas electricity production surpassed coal, partially due to the decrease in gas prices due to shale plays. However, as natural gas prices are expected to climb short term, coal is expected to regain some share. https://www.eia.gov/.../detail.php?id=29872

And with respect to exporting coal to China, that is also a possibility. In 2016, China imported 225.5 million tonnes. The US only exported 74 million tonnes (from a total production of ~ 600 million tonnes). Coal is a global commodity, it doesn't matter where it's from, the cost remains the same. Increased labour costs only decrease profits for the owners, it doesn't effect the price per tonne. Smaller profits are better than no profits.

Additionally, the majority of the coal mined in the US is from Wyoming due to it's low SO2 content. Unfortunately, it's also subbituminous which generates less BTU/lb than bituminous coal. However, the bituminous coal found on the east coast has high SO2 content. The high SO2 content increases the cost of the electricity produced from bituminous coal due to the extra scrubbing requirements. If the EPA loosens the emissions requirements, the bituminous coal becomes more lucrative. What are the environmental regulations like in China? How about India?

Don't get me wrong, I dislike Trump and hate coal. But coal will be with us for some time.

Thank you. That was quite informative. I never said coal is going away tomorrow but eventually it is or at least will decline greatly. My point was that Trump is selling false promises.

That was your takeaway from his post? He basically pissed on your argument
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
I sell industrial equipment for a living, are you telling me that it's normal to require pick up trucks to have an "environmentally approved" $150 drip pan placed under them as soon as they're parked due to the potential of an oil spill? Just remember, that parking lot at your local grocery store doesn't force everyday citizens to place a drip pan underneath their car which is just as likely to piss oil out on the parking lot.

Huh?? What does this have to do with anything on this thread? I've talked to my buddy in the USA who works very closely with the coal industry selling industrial chimney scrubbers. He tells me that they are doing virtually no business in the USA but a ton of business in Asia (China and India). All of which will be very bad for global warming. He tells me the reason they don't sell in the USA is that coal can't compete with natural gas.

Um maybe it's because they're actually installing them, unlike the US where they already exist.
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Oh and you're cementing your snowflake lead.
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Obama! In case you missed it, there's a new sheriff in town, bitch.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.

This does not seem to agree with that premise. Coal is cheaper for electricity.





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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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I don't disagree, but I've made a case with coal that even the most ardent LR Trump ball washers can't really argue against.


You must be new around here.
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
I don't disagree, but I've made a case with coal that even the most ardent LR Trump ball washers can't really argue against.


You must be new around here.

Except that he failed miserably.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
I don't disagree, but I've made a case with coal that even the most ardent LR Trump ball washers can't really argue against.


You must be new around here.

He's made point other than he doesn't understand physical commodity or power markets.
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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Coal is a dead end technology. Solar energy gets cheaper over time because of technological improvement. Coal gets more expensive as it becomes more difficult to extract. Eventually in the not too distant future, the lines will cross and coal will be dead.
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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Kind of reminds me of the peak oil argument we kept hearing about in the early 2000's. While it will eventually will be true in the future, it is far from true now and likely be true for a long time. Two things need to happen, there needs be a lack of the coal necessary to continue it's use in the market place (definitely not true for North America) and an equal or superior product needs to exist. The 1st condition is being met by regulation which in turn at some point is faulty. The 2nd condition, despite all of the positive coverage is not even close to being accomplished. Wind & solar technology has evolved considerably in the last 20 years but it still falls well short of meeting our needs economically & socially. IMO I think a paradigm shift away from the large plants supplying power to much smaller facitilities or no power plants at all - off grid. Off grid use would force people to be responsible for their own power and how much they use. As it stands right now, it's pretty easy to flip on a switch and there's no real consequence outside of the power bill going up a bit. Either way, I'm starting to ramble...
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
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It's different from peak oil in that the trend lines are clear. The cost per watt for solar is already down to $1. There has been a very steady decline in price for decades. It's very close to being cheaper than fossil fuels now.

Coal mining also seems like a job ripe for coal mining robots.
Last edited by: FishyJoe: Mar 3, 17 5:27
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
It's different from peak oil in that the trend lines are clear. The cost per watt for solar is already down to $1. There has been a very steady decline in price for decades. It's very close to being cheaper than fossil fuels now.

Coal mining also seems like a job ripe for coal mining robots.

What is it if you remove the government subsidies?
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
I sell industrial equipment for a living, are you telling me that it's normal to require pick up trucks to have an "environmentally approved" $150 drip pan placed under them as soon as they're parked due to the potential of an oil spill? Just remember, that parking lot at your local grocery store doesn't force everyday citizens to place a drip pan underneath their car which is just as likely to piss oil out on the parking lot.


Huh?? What does this have to do with anything on this thread? I've talked to my buddy in the USA who works very closely with the coal industry selling industrial chimney scrubbers. He tells me that they are doing virtually no business in the USA but a ton of business in Asia (China and India). All of which will be very bad for global warming. He tells me the reason they don't sell in the USA is that coal can't compete with natural gas.


Um maybe it's because they're actually installing them, unlike the US where they already exist.

When was the last time you heard of a new coal powered generation plant being built in the USA? They're being phased out. In fact, Canada has committed to this by 2030.
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
I sell industrial equipment for a living, are you telling me that it's normal to require pick up trucks to have an "environmentally approved" $150 drip pan placed under them as soon as they're parked due to the potential of an oil spill? Just remember, that parking lot at your local grocery store doesn't force everyday citizens to place a drip pan underneath their car which is just as likely to piss oil out on the parking lot.


Huh?? What does this have to do with anything on this thread? I've talked to my buddy in the USA who works very closely with the coal industry selling industrial chimney scrubbers. He tells me that they are doing virtually no business in the USA but a ton of business in Asia (China and India). All of which will be very bad for global warming. He tells me the reason they don't sell in the USA is that coal can't compete with natural gas.


Um maybe it's because they're actually installing them, unlike the US where they already exist.

When was the last time you heard of a new coal powered generation plant being built in the USA? They're being phased out. In fact, Canada has committed to this by 2030.

A) you did not rebut my point b) why are they being phased out in three US?
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
It's different from peak oil in that the trend lines are clear. The cost per watt for solar is already down to $1. There has been a very steady decline in price for decades. It's very close to being cheaper than fossil fuels now.

Coal mining also seems like a job ripe for coal mining robots.

Why would they make robots for a job that will only be around a couple of years?

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
Rodred wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.


Sorry Canuckian but you may have to adjust your optimist appraisal. Literally two after the election coal shipments by rail went crazy, along with evil oil and fracking sand. A power plant near Detroit ordered 52 train loads of coal a month. That's 100+ railcars per train which I believe converts to 5trucks per railcar which is all going to being fired up shooting some coal dust your way. Enjoy.

Glad you know more than Yale. Where is your source? And 52 train loads a month is fuck all in the big picture.

That's one plant genius. Believe or don't but if I were you I wouldn't eat the black speckled snow.


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
racin_rusty wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.


High labour costs are a distraction, the real reason for jobs going overseas is directly related to the lack of enforcement of labour & environmental regulations. But hey, go ahead - keep blaming the worker if that's what it takes to stick to the party message.


Bull shit. Where have I blamed the worker? I generally support workers and strong unions in most cases. Its the Conservatives that you support that blame workers, not so much Liberals and less so NDP.

High labor costs is not simply a distraction but a genuine reason why its hard to compete against China/India. However, you are correct about lack of labour and environmental standards being another big issue. My best friend sells industrial chimney scrubbers to China and tells me that half the time they don't even turn them on, its more about saving face to say they have them.

Did you read the url?

Did you mean lower labor costs? Why do you support slave labor?


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
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Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source

My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.

CHINA IS AN IMPORTER OF COAL. Read the Reuters article recently about how coke producers in China are gearing up because of smelters demands. Coal is only "dead" because of EPA regulations. Now if they can burn coal close to as clean as natural gas ain't no Thang to see a revival. I wouldn't get long coal companies but your position is irrational based on evidence.

This. Filled with facts!


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
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