Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry
Quote | Reply
It's not coming back. Period. Here's a great non #fake news article from Yale to explain it. Also not mentioned in the article is that nobody in the millennial generation wants to work in the pit in this day and age with all the associated danger and health problems. Sorry Donny, but you've told those that want to believe another fib again.

http://e360.yale.edu/..._are_not_coming_back
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Globally, however, any reports of coal’s death are premature. China, which consumes half the world’s coal, is key to the fuel’s outlook. Until very recently, coal use in China had been projected to increase continuously through at least 2040. That outlook is much bleaker today. But even if Chinese coal use may be plateauing, as some data sources suggest, it will face a long sunset, not a sharp decline. China is taking significant steps to reduce its choking air pollution, and in small industrial plants and residential boilers coal is being phased out. But for electricity and steel production, which account for four-fifths of China’s coal use, cleaning up the air predominantly means installing technology on existing coal plants rather than permanently closing a sizable portion of its coal power plants—and that technology does nothing to combat carbon pollution.

At the same time, India will become the world’s second largest coal consumer before the end of this decade, and is projected to more than double use through 2040. To put that in perspective, the new coal-fired capacity that India and other emerging Southeast Asian countries will build between now and 2040 is nearly double all the existing capacity in the U.S. today. Indian officials have given little reason to believe they will sharply change course. That is why a June 2015 study in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences warned of the climate risks posed by the current “coal renaissance” across much of developing Asia.


http://blogs.wsj.com/...coal-isnt-dead-yet/v

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not talking about China or India as they will soon be the two world's worst polluters because of coal. All I'm saying is that Trump is telling a fib and giving false hope to people who voted for him over this.. Natural gas is cleaner and is more economically viable in North America.


Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The US exports coal and could export a great deal more.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
The US exports coal and could export a great deal more.

Well that will be just great for the environment and global warming. Plus how it the USA going to compete against China or India in coal exporting when you consider labor costs? Do you think any American workers are nowadays willing to work in the pit for low wages?

This one hits a bit too close to home as my grandfather on my mom's side was a coal miner in Wales who died in his early 50's of occupational respiratory complications when I was a small kid. I'm sure he never aspired for his grandchildren to grow up to be coal miners.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
Last edited by: CruseVegas: Mar 2, 17 17:58
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cerveloguy wrote:
JSA wrote:
The US exports coal and could export a great deal more.


Well that will be just great for the environment and global warming. Plus how it the USA going to compete against China or India in coal exporting when you consider labor costs? Do you think any American workers are nowadays willing to work in the pit for low wages?

This one hits a bit too close to home as my grandfather on my mom's side was a coal miner in Wales who died in his early 50's of occupational respiratory complications when I was a small kid. I'm sure he never aspired for his grandchildren to grow up to be coal miners.

For a lot of folks in the certain states in the US, it's either this or dealing meth. I'm not saying coal is good or coal mining is palatable. But, there are segments of the population who rely on those jobs and there is the potential for some of it coming back.

If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [CruseVegas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source

My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [JSA] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JSA wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
JSA wrote:
The US exports coal and could export a great deal more.


Well that will be just great for the environment and global warming. Plus how it the USA going to compete against China or India in coal exporting when you consider labor costs? Do you think any American workers are nowadays willing to work in the pit for low wages?

This one hits a bit too close to home as my grandfather on my mom's side was a coal miner in Wales who died in his early 50's of occupational respiratory complications when I was a small kid. I'm sure he never aspired for his grandchildren to grow up to be coal miners.


For a lot of folks in the certain states in the US, it's either this or dealing meth. I'm not saying coal is good or coal mining is palatable. But, there are segments of the population who rely on those jobs and there is the potential for some of it coming back.

Its tragic in some ways in the way that the world has changed. Previously prosperous areas in some cases are no longer so in just one generation. My wife grew up in a once prosperous auto plant town where the plant is now gone and the town is struggling. If we could have froze the world in the mid 1970's I'm sure we'd all be much happier, but we can't. Neither can Trump.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Why limit to coal. Trump and repubs are full of it on so many accounts....all seemed geared to benefit the 1%.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source

My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.

Sorry Canuckian but you may have to adjust your optimist appraisal. Literally two after the election coal shipments by rail went crazy, along with evil oil and fracking sand. A power plant near Detroit ordered 52 train loads of coal a month. That's 100+ railcars per train which I believe converts to 5trucks per railcar which is all going to being fired up shooting some coal dust your way. Enjoy.


~
"You lie!" The Prophet Joe Wilson
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [tyrod1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tyrod1 wrote:
Why limit to coal. Trump and repubs are full of it on so many accounts....all seemed geared to benefit the 1%.

I don't disagree, but I've made a case with coal that even the most ardent LR Trump ball washers can't really argue against.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [Rodred] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rodred wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.


Sorry Canuckian but you may have to adjust your optimist appraisal. Literally two after the election coal shipments by rail went crazy, along with evil oil and fracking sand. A power plant near Detroit ordered 52 train loads of coal a month. That's 100+ railcars per train which I believe converts to 5trucks per railcar which is all going to being fired up shooting some coal dust your way. Enjoy.

Glad you know more than Yale. Where is your source? And 52 train loads a month is fuck all in the big picture.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
They ain't to bright they supported a big league carny. I am still waiting for his charitable deductions from his tax returns to prove what a swell guy he is.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What do you have against carbon steel? Why do you dislike Hamilton? Pretty sure they vote liberal there so why the hate?
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.

One of you two is off the mark, that's a fact.

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
racin_rusty wrote:
What do you have against carbon steel? Why do you dislike Hamilton? Pretty sure they vote liberal there so why the hate?

Have you not ever been to Hamilton. LOL. Both the Defasco and Stelco plants aren't what they used to be and aren't coming back. But our Liberal PM at least isn't fibbing to the voters about that.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [CruseVegas] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CruseVegas wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.


One of you two is off the mark, that's a fact.

Guess you haven't even bothered to read the original posted url. But no big surprise there.

Now all we have to do is wait for Old Hickory to show up with his usual unrelated one liner.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.

High labour costs are a distraction, the real reason for jobs going overseas is directly related to the lack of enforcement of labour & environmental regulations. But hey, go ahead - keep blaming the worker if that's what it takes to stick to the party message.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
racin_rusty wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.


High labour costs are a distraction, the real reason for jobs going overseas is directly related to the lack of enforcement of labour & environmental regulations. But hey, go ahead - keep blaming the worker if that's what it takes to stick to the party message.


Bull shit. Where have I blamed the worker? I generally support workers and strong unions in most cases. Its the Conservatives that you support that blame workers, not so much Liberals and less so NDP.

High labor costs is not simply a distraction but a genuine reason why its hard to compete against China/India. However, you are correct about lack of labour and environmental standards being another big issue. My best friend sells industrial chimney scrubbers to China and tells me that half the time they don't even turn them on, its more about saving face to say they have them.

Did you read the url?
Last edited by: cerveloguy: Mar 2, 17 19:08
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
cerveloguy wrote:
Rodred wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.


Sorry Canuckian but you may have to adjust your optimist appraisal. Literally two after the election coal shipments by rail went crazy, along with evil oil and fracking sand. A power plant near Detroit ordered 52 train loads of coal a month. That's 100+ railcars per train which I believe converts to 5trucks per railcar which is all going to being fired up shooting some coal dust your way. Enjoy.


Glad you know more than Yale. Where is your source? And 52 train loads a month is fuck all in the big picture.

The author of the article isn't from Yale. He's a professor at the West Virginia University College of Law.

Coal is definitely on the decline, but it's far from dead. Last year was the first time in the US that natural gas electricity production surpassed coal, partially due to the decrease in gas prices due to shale plays. However, as natural gas prices are expected to climb short term, coal is expected to regain some share. https://www.eia.gov/.../detail.php?id=29872

And with respect to exporting coal to China, that is also a possibility. In 2016, China imported 225.5 million tonnes. The US only exported 74 million tonnes (from a total production of ~ 600 million tonnes). Coal is a global commodity, it doesn't matter where it's from, the cost remains the same. Increased labour costs only decrease profits for the owners, it doesn't effect the price per tonne. Smaller profits are better than no profits.

Additionally, the majority of the coal mined in the US is from Wyoming due to it's low SO2 content. Unfortunately, it's also subbituminous which generates less BTU/lb than bituminous coal. However, the bituminous coal found on the east coast has high SO2 content. The high SO2 content increases the cost of the electricity produced from bituminous coal due to the extra scrubbing requirements. If the EPA loosens the emissions requirements, the bituminous coal becomes more lucrative. What are the environmental regulations like in China? How about India?

Don't get me wrong, I dislike Trump and hate coal. But coal will be with us for some time.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [Ringmaster] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ringmaster wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
Rodred wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
CruseVegas wrote:
"You can come right out of high school and make$70,000 a year," said Missy Perdue, 22, a stay-at-home mother whose husband, Jeff Perdue, Jr., 22, is a miner.Apr 7, 2010

Source


My point exactly. Thank you for proving it. How are you going to compete against labor costs in China or India if you're thinking exporting it. And then its almost a dead product on the domestic market. Coal generating plants can't compete against natural gas. . Donny is telling fibs.


Sorry Canuckian but you may have to adjust your optimist appraisal. Literally two after the election coal shipments by rail went crazy, along with evil oil and fracking sand. A power plant near Detroit ordered 52 train loads of coal a month. That's 100+ railcars per train which I believe converts to 5trucks per railcar which is all going to being fired up shooting some coal dust your way. Enjoy.


Glad you know more than Yale. Where is your source? And 52 train loads a month is fuck all in the big picture.


The author of the article isn't from Yale. He's a professor at the West Virginia University College of Law.

Coal is definitely on the decline, but it's far from dead. Last year was the first time in the US that natural gas electricity production surpassed coal, partially due to the decrease in gas prices due to shale plays. However, as natural gas prices are expected to climb short term, coal is expected to regain some share. https://www.eia.gov/.../detail.php?id=29872

And with respect to exporting coal to China, that is also a possibility. In 2016, China imported 225.5 million tonnes. The US only exported 74 million tonnes (from a total production of ~ 600 million tonnes). Coal is a global commodity, it doesn't matter where it's from, the cost remains the same. Increased labour costs only decrease profits for the owners, it doesn't effect the price per tonne. Smaller profits are better than no profits.

Additionally, the majority of the coal mined in the US is from Wyoming due to it's low SO2 content. Unfortunately, it's also subbituminous which generates less BTU/lb than bituminous coal. However, the bituminous coal found on the east coast has high SO2 content. The high SO2 content increases the cost of the electricity produced from bituminous coal due to the extra scrubbing requirements. If the EPA loosens the emissions requirements, the bituminous coal becomes more lucrative. What are the environmental regulations like in China? How about India?

Don't get me wrong, I dislike Trump and hate coal. But coal will be with us for some time.

Thank you. That was quite informative. I never said coal is going away tomorrow but eventually it is or at least will decline greatly. My point was that Trump is selling false promises.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I sell industrial equipment for a living, are you telling me that it's normal to require pick up trucks to have an "environmentally approved" $150 drip pan placed under them as soon as they're parked due to the potential of an oil spill? Just remember, that parking lot at your local grocery store doesn't force everyday citizens to place a drip pan underneath their car which is just as likely to piss oil out on the parking lot.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
racin_rusty wrote:
I sell industrial equipment for a living, are you telling me that it's normal to require pick up trucks to have an "environmentally approved" $150 drip pan placed under them as soon as they're parked due to the potential of an oil spill? Just remember, that parking lot at your local grocery store doesn't force everyday citizens to place a drip pan underneath their car which is just as likely to piss oil out on the parking lot.

Huh?? What does this have to do with anything on this thread? I've talked to my buddy in the USA who works very closely with the coal industry selling industrial chimney scrubbers. He tells me that they are doing virtually no business in the USA but a ton of business in Asia (China and India). All of which will be very bad for global warming. He tells me the reason they don't sell in the USA is that coal can't compete with natural gas.
Quote Reply
Re: Donny is full of sh*t about the coal industry [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I live about a half mile from a railroad track. Numerous mile long coal trains pass by every day and this has been going on as long as I've lived here...more than 35 years. One of our main power plants here uses coal and it's not scheduled to be decommissioned for another 15-20 years at the earliest. I don't think coal will be gone in my lifetime.

Don

Tri-ing to have fun. Anything else is just a bonus!
Quote Reply

Prev Next