Re: The Obama's lack class [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 11:41

Post #26 of 51 (1168 views)

The Guardian wrote:

dave_w wrote:

I don't understand all the either/or. Just because Trump redefines classlessness for the office, does not mean that Obama was not classless on a number of occasions.

I think the point is that the republican claims of Obama being "classless" were, to some, quite a stretch. Now we have a president that is anything but classy, so the comparison might demonstrate the unreasonability of the attacks on Obama for his "lack of class".

-
I think most of Trumps personal actions look classless...think of it this way, if a female acted this way, all the guys would call her "batshit crazy". I'm less and less hopeful that Trump can hold it together for a presidential term.

Re: The Obama's lack class [dave_w] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 11:52

Post #27 of 51 (1160 views)

dave_w wrote:

Changed the definition. If you were turned away at the border, that did not count as a "deportation" before Obama.

Wrong. The article explains that obama did not start that. A previous president did. But as usual, lets blame obama!

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Last edited by: veganerd: Jan 10, 17 11:53

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 11:55

Post #28 of 51 (1153 views)

Yes, the article notes that the change took place under Bush. But that's not really relevant to the "increase" in deportations under Obama, which has been debunked. See my post above.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: The Obama's lack class [dave_w] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 11:56

Post #29 of 51 (1153 views)

dave_w wrote:

The Guardian wrote:

dave_w wrote:

I don't understand all the either/or. Just because Trump redefines classlessness for the office, does not mean that Obama was not classless on a number of occasions.

I think the point is that the republican claims of Obama being "classless" were, to some, quite a stretch. Now we have a president that is anything but classy, so the comparison might demonstrate the unreasonability of the attacks on Obama for his "lack of class".

-
I think most of Trumps personal actions look classless...think of it this way, if a female acted this way, all the guys would call her "batshit crazy". I'm less and less hopeful that Trump can hold it together for a presidential term.

Trump will be fine. He's got 70 years of experience acting that way. The good news is that the media and Democrats are now back engaged in scrutinizing the Executive role after an 8 year hiatus.

Re: The Obama's lack class [vitus979] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 11:58

Post #30 of 51 (1149 views)

vitus979 wrote:

You have a funny definition of debunked.

What definition are you laboring under?

From spot's link:

Expulsions of people who are settled and working in the United States have fallen steadily since his first year in office, and are down more than 40% since 2009.
On the other side of the ledger, the number of people deported at or near the border has gone up — primarily as a result of changing who gets counted in the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency's deportation statistics.

The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now.

BTW, thanks for that info, spot. Was news to me.

Did you also read where convictions have gone up?

Also, if the definition has broadened, then the claim is true. Feel free to add an asterix but what i said still stands.

If you had the home run record but we later changed the rules to include ground rule doubles as home runs. I can get the new hr record by including those plays as well. You are saying that i cant. Nonsense. I can by definition.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:05

Post #31 of 51 (1140 views)

Stop digging.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: The Obama's lack class [vitus979] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:09

Post #32 of 51 (1137 views)

vitus979 wrote:

Stop digging.

Why do you hate fully understanding someones position?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Re: The Obama's lack class [vitus979] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:12

Post #33 of 51 (1130 views)

vitus979 wrote:

Yes, the article notes that the change took place under Bush. But that's not really relevant to the "increase" in deportations under Obama, which has been debunked. See my post above.

I didnt say it was. i was responding to daves statement that it was never that way before obama. i see you agree with me on that point, but maybe cant bring yourself to agree so you have to disagree with something else i didnt say? Am i correct in that? Curious.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:12

Post #34 of 51 (1129 views)

I understand your position perfectly. It's just that your position consists of intellectual dishonesty to avoid admitting the obvious fact that you're wrong on this point.

Like I said, just stop digging.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: The Obama's lack class [vitus979] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:13

Post #35 of 51 (1124 views)

vitus979 wrote:

I understand your position perfectly. It's just that your position consists of intellectual dishonesty to avoid admitting the obvious fact that you're wrong on this point.

Like I said, just stop digging.

My position is completely honest. Im not denying any truth here. Can you point to something true which im denying? If you can, id happily thank you and correct it.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Re: The Obama's lack class [dave_w] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:15

Post #36 of 51 (1121 views)

dave_w wrote:

Changed the definition. If you were turned away at the border, that did not count as a "deportation" before Obama.

Yes the increase is not an increase in what most people think of as a deportation.

But, these aren't people turned away at the border. They are caught after crossing. And instead of just shipped back, they now have a formal deportation order. That matters. Not only can you be prosecuted if you re-enter, but legally re-entering is much more difficult and usually comes with a 5 - 20 year ban depending on circumstances. And you can be summarily removed if caught again without benefit of even going before an immigration judge.

So the numbers are goofy but the change does have consequences.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:15

Post #37 of 51 (1119 views)

Never mind. You're clearing not going to stop digging, but you don't need my help burying yourself. Carry on.

"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."

Re: The Obama's lack class [j p o] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:18

Post #38 of 51 (1116 views)

j p o wrote:

dave_w wrote:

Changed the definition. If you were turned away at the border, that did not count as a "deportation" before Obama.

Yes the increase is not an increase in what most people think of as a deportation.

But, these aren't people turned away at the border. They are caught after crossing. And instead of just shipped back, they now have a formal deportation order. That matters. Not only can you be prosecuted if you re-enter, but legally re-entering is much more difficult and usually comes with a 5 - 20 year ban depending on circumstances. And you can be summarily removed if caught again without benefit of even going before an immigration judge.

So the numbers are goofy but the change does have consequences.

Exactly. It also means that the numbers of illegal immigrants deported with formal records has....dun dun dun....increased!

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Re: The Obama's lack class [vitus979] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 12:19

Post #39 of 51 (1114 views)

vitus979 wrote:

Never mind. You're clearing not going to stop digging, but you don't need my help burying yourself. Carry on.

Its cool. I knew you couldnt do it.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 13:14

Post #40 of 51 (1087 views)

veganerd wrote:

j p o wrote:

dave_w wrote:

Changed the definition. If you were turned away at the border, that did not count as a "deportation" before Obama.

Yes the increase is not an increase in what most people think of as a deportation.

But, these aren't people turned away at the border. They are caught after crossing. And instead of just shipped back, they now have a formal deportation order. That matters. Not only can you be prosecuted if you re-enter, but legally re-entering is much more difficult and usually comes with a 5 - 20 year ban depending on circumstances. And you can be summarily removed if caught again without benefit of even going before an immigration judge.

So the numbers are goofy but the change does have consequences.

Exactly. It also means that the numbers of illegal immigrants deported with formal records has....dun dun dun....increased!

That's not what we're arguing. You claim that Obama deported more people than any other president. That is only true because Bush changed the definition of "deported." From the article:

"The vast majority of those border crossers would not have been treated as formal deportations under most previous administrations. If all removals were tallied, the total sent back to Mexico each year would have been far higher under those previous administrations than it is now."

Also, I serious doubt if you have any sort of reference to support the notion that the number of illegal immigrants deported with formal records has increased under Obama.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Last edited by: spot: Jan 10, 17 13:27

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 13:16

Post #41 of 51 (1086 views)

Isn't that also how they got the idea that the unemployment rate was ohhhh so low under Obama even though Obummer's analytics changed the definition of unemployment.?

Re: The Obama's lack class [spot] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 13:29

Post #42 of 51 (1068 views)

Quote:

That's not what we're arguing.

I added another point.

Quote:

Also, I serious doubt if you have any sort of reference to support the notion that the number of illegal immigrants has increased under Obama.

Is this what you intended to write? I feel like you mistakenly omitted a word. I just want to be clear.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 13:30

Post #43 of 51 (1065 views)

veganerd wrote:

Quote:

That's not what we're arguing.

I added another point.

Quote:

Also, I serious doubt if you have any sort of reference to support the notion that the number of illegal immigrants has increased under Obama.

Is this what you intended to write? I feel like you mistakenly omitted a word. I just want to be clear.

No, I edited it so that it now makes sense, as it did not before.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

Re: The Obama's lack class [spot] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 13:48

Post #44 of 51 (1050 views)

spot wrote:

veganerd wrote:

Quote:

That's not what we're arguing.

I added another point.

Quote:

Also, I serious doubt if you have any sort of reference to support the notion that the number of illegal immigrants has increased under Obama.

Is this what you intended to write? I feel like you mistakenly omitted a word. I just want to be clear.

No, I edited it so that it now makes sense, as it did not before.

It logocally follows. We both agree that is how they do it now? Catch people, book them with a formal record, then return them. This is a relatively new process. If so, then the number deported with records would increase.

Also, wouldnt it be grand if we all allowed clarification in debates, as i did here? I think it would be nice. Usually people here just accuse the other person of backpedaling.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

Last edited by: veganerd: Jan 10, 17 13:50

Re: The Obama's lack class [TriFortMill] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 13:57

Post #45 of 51 (1044 views)

TriFortMill wrote:

Isn't that also how they got the idea that the unemployment rate was ohhhh so low under Obama even though Obummer's analytics changed the definition of unemployment.?

"Obummer" ...

Do you have any idea how stupid that makes you sound?

Make your argument on it's merits if you actually have one and want to be taken seriously. If you just want to be thought of a as a douche bag, moronic troll, then carry on.

Here is a nice list of Obama and Trump nick names. Hey, I admit it, they ARE funny.

http://brainshavings.com/obama-nicknames/
http://www.thehypertexts.com/Donald%20Trump%20Nicknames.htm

Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

Re: The Obama's lack class [j p o] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 14:07

Post #46 of 51 (1037 views)

j p o wrote:

TheForge wrote:

Sure, among my friends. But here I'm going to be as Deplorable as possible and defend Trump even if I disagree with him for the next two years just to get a little payback for the last 8.

The butthurt is strong with this one.

What is your fascination with butts? Do you and Duffy have something going on we should know about?

I have a personality disorder, I don't drink coffee...

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 16:35

Post #47 of 51 (989 views)

************************
#WeAreTheForge #BlackGunsMatter

"Look, will you guys at leats accept that you are a bunch of dumb asses and just trust me on this one? Please?" BarryP 7/30/2012

Re: The Obama's lack class [wasusnowme] [ In reply to ]

Jan 10, 17 17:20

Post #48 of 51 (973 views)

wasusnowme wrote:

j p o wrote:

TheForge wrote:

Sure, among my friends. But here I'm going to be as Deplorable as possible and defend Trump even if I disagree with him for the next two years just to get a little payback for the last 8.

The butthurt is strong with this one.

What is your fascination with butts? Do you and Duffy have something going on we should know about?

Me and jpo? No.

Me and Forge? In his dreams.

Me and JSA? Don't ask. Don't tell.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Re: The Obama's lack class [North] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 17 5:10

Post #49 of 51 (937 views)

North wrote:

You're like school in the summertime....no class.

Ha - I love that Jnr's toy cars are mostly stretch limos

Re: The Obama's lack class [veganerd] [ In reply to ]

Jan 11, 17 13:25

Post #50 of 51 (883 views)

veganerd wrote:

dave_w wrote:

Changed the definition. If you were turned away at the border, that did not count as a "deportation" before Obama.

Wrong. The article explains that obama did not start that. A previous president did. But as usual, lets blame obama!

-
Thanks, I either had not read, or did a partisan skip-over in articles I've read on the issue.

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