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Re: Terence Crutcher [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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Is she racist? Probably not. Is she fit to be a cop? Probably not.

Pretty much.

I could understand if she were alone, but that trigger finger seems a bit twitchy for the situation.

These incidents always remind me of the opening scene in Three Kings.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Her attorney is live on MSNBC. He's saying she's a trained Drug Recognition Expert ("5 or 6 week training course") and was certain his behavior was consistent with PCP intoxication.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Oklahoma's DRE course summary:


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The Drug Recognition Expert (DRE) program has proven successful in identifying the drug impaired driver. DREs are frequently called upon to assist fellow officers in documenting DUI cases of impaired drivers and/or to differentiate between drug influence and medical and/or mental disorders. The certified DRE in an extremely valuable tool for combating the adverse impact of drug and alcohol impaired driving. DRE School is extremely demanding. To receive certification as a DRE, two phases of training must be completed. DRE officers are encouraged to conduct evaluations for neighboring agencies to combat impaired driving issues in their area.
The following summarizes each phase.

ACADEMIC TRAINING
This phase is typically conducted over ten (10) days (80 hrs). It includes courses in physiology, vital signs, standardized field sobriety testing (SFST), as well as extensive material on each of the seven categories of the drugs of abuse. The training includes written examinations, two alcohol workshops, an SFST proficiency examination and written quizzes. Students must achieve a minimum score of 80% on the final academic examination and must demonstrate proficiency in administering SFST’s in order to progress to the certification phase.

CERTIFICATION PHASE
After successfully completing the academic portion, the DRE students must complete the certification phase. It is the student’s responsibility to complete the certification requirements within six months following the DRE school. Certification night will be setup to allow the student ample opportunity to complete the certification requirements. These requirements include: taking part in a minimum of 12 drug influence evaluations while under the supervision of a DRE instructor; identifying subjects under the influence of four (4) of the seven (7) drug categories; and attaining a 75% toxicological confirmation rate. In addition, the student must maintain a progress log, rolling log, enter data into the National DRE Data Tracking site, and submit a quality curriculum vitae (CV). Finally, the student must pass a comprehensive final knowledge examination, and obtain the written endorsement of two certified DRE instructors. The International of Chiefs of Police (IACP) is the regulating and credentialing organization for the DRE program. DRE certification is valid for two years. In order to maintain certification, DREs must conduct a minimum of four (4) evaluations within the two years, enter the evaluation into the National DRE Data Tracking site, submit an updated rolling log and current CV, and attend eight (8) hours of recertification training.

To be considered for DRE training, the applicant must meet the following required criteria:
Must have a minimum of three (3) years of service or the recommendation from a DRE Instructor.
Must be off probation with your agency.
Must be an SFST practitioner.
Must have successfully completed ARIDE (Advanced Roadside Impaired Driving Enforcement) training.
Should possess a current Intoxilyzer certification.
Must have a reasonable background and experience level of making DUI arrests.


The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Sep 21, 16 7:31
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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I could understand if she were alone, but that trigger finger seems a bit twitchy for the situation.
These incidents always remind me of the opening scene in Three Kings.


Good comparison.

Of course, I'm not sure it's all that fair to this cop to say she was too jumpy because none of the other cops shot the guy. The question is still whether or not she acted appropriately- maybe she did, and they didn't.

What's the appropriate reaction to a guy who's ignored verbal commands from multiple cops who have been pointing guns at him, then walks over to his car and reaches into the window?











"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Terence Crutcher [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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It's been reported that the windows were closed. I have no idea if it's true or not.

The case in NC involved a driver not complying and emerging from his vehicle with a handgun. I don't question the officers' judgment in that case whatsoever, if true. If the man in OK did in fact reach into the vehicle, I'd understand as well, but it's just not clear enough that he was in fact reaching for something or retrieving something from his pocket.

The ongoing family press conference in Charlotte is something to behold. Nation of Islam guy just called for an economic boycott of white businesses in the city. Another guy (pastor) just called for removing abortion clinics from the inner city. No one is buying that a gun was retrieved from the scene.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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It's been reported that the windows were closed. I have no idea if it's true or not.

Me neither. In the video, it looks like at one point he tried to open the car door. I didn't see him reach inside the window, but I thought that's what the police said. If true, I have a hard time calling the officer who shot him excessively jumpy. That's grounds for shooting. If he didn't reach in, yeah, too twitchy.

Either way, I don't think they should've let him back to the car in the first place.


The ongoing family press conference in Charlotte is something to behold. Nation of Islam guy just called for an economic boycott of white businesses in the city. Another guy (pastor) just called for removing abortion clinics from the inner city. No one is buying that a gun was retrieved from the scene.


This kind of thing keeps up, and BLM is going to get their wish, and be free of police in the black community.









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Another guy (pastor) just called for removing abortion clinics from the inner city.

I was flipping the radio yesterday and came across some conservative talk show (not Rush but don't know who it was), and there was a Latino guy on there who supported Trump going off on Clinton and the Dems about Planned Parenthood. I don't quite understand this conspiracy theory, so the Dems want to kill off the poor minorities via Planned Parenthood while at the same time trying to get more of them as voters through all sorts of nefarious ploys given that they have been traditional supporters of the Dems?
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Re: Terence Crutcher [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
This kind of thing keeps up, and BLM is going to get their wish, and be free of police in the black community.

This is what I cant wrap my head around. There are plenty of cases that give support to BLM's claims, but they insist on rallying around cases where police had every right (and justification) to shoot someone. Ferguson, Brown "hands up dont shoot" made a go at the officers weapon, Charlotte, guys hops out of car with a handgun, Cleveland, kids pulls out a realistic looking bb gun. I run in pretty racially diverse circles and the general consensus is that even though they have a legitimate cause, they completely discredit their cause by rallying around cases with false narratives.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [nhunter344] [ In reply to ]
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There are plenty of cases that give support to BLM's claims,

Not to nitpick, but there probably aren't.









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Terence Crutcher [nhunter344] [ In reply to ]
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nhunter344 wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
This kind of thing keeps up, and BLM is going to get their wish, and be free of police in the black community.


This is what I cant wrap my head around. There are plenty of cases that give support to BLM's claims, but they insist on rallying around cases where police had every right (and justification) to shoot someone. Ferguson, Brown "hands up dont shoot" made a go at the officers weapon, Charlotte, guys hops out of car with a handgun, Cleveland, kids pulls out a realistic looking bb gun. I run in pretty racially diverse circles and the general consensus is that even though they have a legitimate cause, they completely discredit their cause by rallying around cases with false narratives.

I don't understand it either. I have little doubt black men get shot in situations where others wouldn't but it certainly seems like in many of these circumstances a lot of people would get shot doing what they did.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Her attorney is live on MSNBC. He's saying she's a trained Drug Recognition Expert ("5 or 6 week training course") and was certain his behavior was consistent with PCP intoxication.
I saw her attorney on television talking about how she feared for her life and all the rest. Being a 117lbs. woman who works with all sorts of addicts and mental illnesses no matter how much of anything anyone is using or has used, I never fear for my life in the way that attorney seemed to drone on about. Terence seemed far enough away from her not be be shot.


_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [nhunter344] [ In reply to ]
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nhunter344 wrote:
vitus979 wrote:
This kind of thing keeps up, and BLM is going to get their wish, and be free of police in the black community.


This is what I cant wrap my head around. There are plenty of cases that give support to BLM's claims, but they insist on rallying around cases where police had every right (and justification) to shoot someone. Ferguson, Brown "hands up dont shoot" made a go at the officers weapon, Charlotte, guys hops out of car with a handgun, Cleveland, kids pulls out a realistic looking bb gun. I run in pretty racially diverse circles and the general consensus is that even though they have a legitimate cause, they completely discredit their cause by rallying around cases with false narratives.

There are some here in the LR that don't buy the point that the BLM cause is discredited by repeatedly promoting false narratives.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [travelmama] [ In reply to ]
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Again, not implying that she was right or wrong to fire in that instance, but I think you can appreciate the situational differences between working with drug abusers in your setting and what police officers encounter in the line of duty.

Bullets don't care about gender or BMI, and PCP abusers are notoriously dangerous individuals. She--a officer trained specifically to identify drug intoxication--believed she was dealing with an uncooperative man high on PCP (a vial was found in his possession), who was refusing to follow commands and returning to his vehicle, or reaching for his pocket, where a weapon may have been. Very, very different scenarios than what I presume you encounter drug abusers in.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Terence Crutcher [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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So the story is they were telling him to stop and not go to the car? If that is what was going on I think you are right. Why would they let him get all the way to where something dangerous could happen before acting?

If they kept telling him not to go to the car, it adds credibility to their position, that they tried a number of times to get him to co-operate and he refused. If I were a police, and a man stops his car in the middle of the road, won't listen to instructions and appears to reach for his waist, I'd be nervous too.

I wish more of the comments on social media would center around people taking personal responsibility for their actions, instead of the knee-jerk reaction of blaming the police.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [Sshoreli] [ In reply to ]
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These are citizens of the United States, not IED carrying ISIS fighters.

Most of the recent terror attacks by ISIS supporters, or sympathizers, have been carried out by U.S citizens.

Just sayin.

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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
Again, not implying that she was right or wrong to fire in that instance, but I think you can appreciate the situational differences between working with drug abusers in your setting and what police officers encounter in the line of duty.

Bullets don't care about gender or BMI, and PCP abusers are notoriously dangerous individuals. She--a officer trained specifically to identify drug intoxication--believed she was dealing with an uncooperative man high on PCP (a vial was found in his possession), who was refusing to follow commands and returning to his vehicle, or reaching for his pocket, where a weapon may have been. Very, very different scenarios than what I presume you encounter drug abusers in.
Yes, the scenarios are different but know that I am not a counselor or police officer. I know how dangerous people can be on any drugs but again, I do not fear for my life. I am not afraid of people.


_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [travelmama] [ In reply to ]
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I am not afraid of people.

There are times when you really should be.









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Terence Crutcher [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
I am not afraid of people.

There are times when you really should be.
How do you figure this about me?


_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
The ongoing family press conference in Charlotte is something to behold. Nation of Islam guy just called for an economic boycott of white businesses in the city. Another guy (pastor) just called for removing abortion clinics from the inner city. No one is buying that a gun was retrieved from the scene.

I had hip hop station on in the car last night (kids in car turned it on as I was driving them from project to soccer practice), and heard the announcers giving the BLM narrative; something to the effect of, "yeah, right, they are trying to tell us that we are not being targeted, who is dumb enough to believe that." I think most of us have no clue how strongly the "us v. them" narrative is being promoted in the poor black communities.

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Terence Crutcher [travelmama] [ In reply to ]
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There are times when you really should be.
How do you figure this about me?

It wasn't at all intended as a personal statement about you specifically. (Though if you regularly deal with dangerous drug addicts . . . )

What I meant was that there are dangerous people, and dangerous situations, and when you're in a dangerous situation facing a dangerous person, being scared is appropriate.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Q: How many black people does it take the start a riot?




A: Minus one.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: Terence Crutcher [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Good one!
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
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Is she racist? Probably not. Is she fit to be a cop? Probably not.


Pretty much.

I could understand if she were alone, but that trigger finger seems a bit twitchy for the situation.

These incidents always remind me of the opening scene in Three Kings.

It's just the kind of situation (a split second decision) where the unconscious bias most of us in the US (including a lot of black people) have against black people gets a black man shot where somebody of another race wouldn't be.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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That's a nice theory. But it's not supported by the data.








"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Terence Crutcher [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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That's an interesting theory, given how the vast majority of violence against whites is committed by other whites. It's certainly my experience, and I grew up in an overwhelmingly black neighborhood.

But I'm probably not representative of the typical white person.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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