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Re: Terence Crutcher [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
You were wanting more details in the muslim/not muslim-terrorism/not terrorism thread. Same should apply here.

We don't know what the cops said to him yet. We don't know why he was moving towards his car.

Her boss is disturbed. Ok. Why is he/she disturbed? Still no details.

See my reply to H.

The chief has more info than we do and has a problem with it. Im guessing he didn't see a reason to shoot either. I'm guessing.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Terence Crutcher [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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I watched 2 videos of the incident and didn't see anything that warranted killing a person then offered my opinion.

Ok. You offered your opinion based on what you saw in two videos. If you were in charge of investigating the incident, what other evidence would you consider?

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Terence Crutcher [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
BLeP wrote:
You were wanting more details in the muslim/not muslim-terrorism/not terrorism thread. Same should apply here.

We don't know what the cops said to him yet. We don't know why he was moving towards his car.

Her boss is disturbed. Ok. Why is he/she disturbed? Still no details.


See my reply to H.

The chief has more info than we do and has a problem with it. Im guessing he didn't see a reason to shoot either. I'm guessing.

Yeah, but we don't know why. If you are going to want details for bomb planters why don't you want details for cops?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Terence Crutcher [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:

See my reply to H.

The chief has more info than we do and has a problem with it. Im guessing he didn't see a reason to shoot either. I'm guessing.

The Chief is quote thus:

Chuck Jordan, Tulsa's chief of police, described the footage as "very disturbing and difficult to watch."

Yes, the footage is disturbing without any other details. He did not say that he had all the details yet.

If we are going to guess, then I would say she got nervous and fired. That will happen from time to time when you train the police to protect themselves above all else. If that's the case she should be fired because she's not up for the job.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Terence Crutcher [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
veganerd wrote:
BLeP wrote:
You were wanting more details in the muslim/not muslim-terrorism/not terrorism thread. Same should apply here.

We don't know what the cops said to him yet. We don't know why he was moving towards his car.

Her boss is disturbed. Ok. Why is he/she disturbed? Still no details.


See my reply to H.

The chief has more info than we do and has a problem with it. Im guessing he didn't see a reason to shoot either. I'm guessing.

Yeah, but we don't know why. If you are going to want details for bomb planters why don't you want details for cops?

What did I say that led you to the idea that I don't want more information? I certainly didon't say that. I didnt imply it. I watched 2 videos and said I think the cop made a mistake. I'm not the only one who thinks that. The cops boss who has way more info than I do has apparently reached the same conclusion which also informs my opinion.

In another completely different case I nasically said "we don't know why these bombs were planted so it doesn't make sense to call it terrorism yet" you're really stretching to say I'm being contradictory here.

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Terence Crutcher [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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I am not stretching at all. You do this all the time.

Muslims get the benefit of the doubt. Christians are immediately declared evil. We know you aren't a fan of police. So no benefit is given.

You've watched the videos. So what? What info do they provide? Why was he going back to the car?

I think that it's likely that she fucked up. I still think that we need more details before we tar and feather her.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
Last edited by: BLeP: Sep 20, 16 9:42
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Re: Terence Crutcher [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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The cops boss who has way more info than I do has apparently reached the same conclusion which also informs my opinion.

If Blep is quoting the chief accurately, that's not true.









"People think it must be fun to be a super genius, but they don't realize how hard it is to put up with all the idiots in the world."
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Re: Terence Crutcher [vitus979] [ In reply to ]
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vitus979 wrote:
The cops boss who has way more info than I do has apparently reached the same conclusion which also informs my opinion.

If Blep is quoting the chief accurately, that's not true.

I took that straight from veganerds article.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Terence Crutcher [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
Quote:
I watched 2 videos of the incident and didn't see anything that warranted killing a person then offered my opinion.

Ok. You offered your opinion based on what you saw in two videos. If you were in charge of investigating the incident, what other evidence would you consider?

One thing I would want is for all the cops to be questioned immediately. But that doesn't happen. They give them several days before they have to talk. If you did that they would start interrogating you on the way to the station and not let you talk with your cohorts. The way they handle cops let's bad cops get their stories straight amongst them.

As someone else said in this thread, the vast majority of cops are great. But they protect bad cops and bad decisions way too much.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
veganerd wrote:


See my reply to H.

The chief has more info than we do and has a problem with it. Im guessing he didn't see a reason to shoot either. I'm guessing.


The Chief is quote thus:

Chuck Jordan, Tulsa's chief of police, described the footage as "very disturbing and difficult to watch."

Yes, the footage is disturbing without any other details. He did not say that he had all the details yet.

If we are going to guess, then I would say she got nervous and fired. That will happen from time to time when you train the police to protect themselves above all else. If that's the case she should be fired because she's not up for the job.

----------------------------

I have a lot of friends and family that are cops. I realize they have a difficult job and run into the dregs of society, however in my view police training methods need to be completely revamped. These are citizens of the United States, not IED carrying ISIS fighters. Too much of today's police tactics seem to have been brought back from, or executed like it is, the desert, and it is wrong. If this officer's instinct or training caused her first reaction to arriving at the scene of a stranded motorist is to pull a gun (regardless of whether someone reported the car might explode), we have some real f'in problems. What happened to the "Serve" part of Protect and Serve. She should have turned her lights on to protect HIM from getting hit by traffic and tried to help him out. If obviously agitated/upset (which we can expect people to be in most situations when police arrive) but no clear threat (he was walking slowly with his hands up), they need to de-escalate. If you really think he is a danger because he has an "exploding car" then back the hell up from it. Drawing weapons and barking commands just makes things worse. Treating every encounter with the public as a life and death situation is not the way.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [Sshoreli] [ In reply to ]
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Gee if we only knew the circumstance as to which they drew their weapons in the 1st place... Here's a hint.. we dont.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
There are a ton of great cops too. Unfortunately, their refusal to hold fellow cops accountable makes them pretty shitty. If cops who make mistakes or bad cops were called out by their fellow officers, there would be a lot more community trust in cops.

Bad cops are called out by their fellow officers all the time. They just don't go public with it to satisfy social media curiosity. They file their report. They cooperate with the investigation, and the let the process play out, without getting hysterical about it. In the vast majority of incidents where police are investigated internally for misconduct, it's because a fellow officer told management.

In my experience working with police, most officers view bad cops as a danger to themselves and others, and that's not something they easily tolerate. They also know that in this day, there's a good chance someone's recording what they do, and they don't want to be held accountable for not having reported or worse, falsely reporting something.

You are correct that we don't generally hear when a cop informs on another cop. We have been told again and again that there is the "Thin Blue Line" that doesn't get crossed. It would be interesting to know what the reality is and not something manufactured to paint the worst picture possible.

I have never worked with cops but know several. 95% of them are great guys who are out to do a job but there is 5% that seem to have a score to settle for something that happened along the way. My hope is that the 95% run the other 5% off the job.

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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Here's another hint... if she would have put on her lights as the previous poster suggested, that would have activated her dashboard cam and we WOULD know the events that led up to the shooting...
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Re: Terence Crutcher [jeffa] [ In reply to ]
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jeffa wrote:
Here's another hint... if she would have put on her lights as the previous poster suggested, that would have activated her dashboard cam and we WOULD know the events that led up to the shooting...

Would of could of should of... Can speculate all day. Doesn't get us anywhere close to the facts of what actually happened.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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One thing we know though is that he was shot and unarmed. And if she as felt more threatened than ever before as she claims she was, despite several other cops around, then maybe she shouldn't be a cop in the first place?
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Re: Terence Crutcher [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
One thing we know though is that he was shot and unarmed.

So was Michael Brown. This fact, in and of itself, means nothing.

Francois wrote:
And if she as felt more threatened than ever before as she claims she was, despite several other cops around, then maybe she shouldn't be a cop in the first place?

This I will agree with.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Terence Crutcher [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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To the surprise of no one...

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Tulsa Police Sgt. Dave Walker confirmed to the Tulsa World (http://bit.ly/2d6cYIh ) that investigators recovered a vial of PCP in Terence Crutcher's SUV. Tulsa police officer Betty Shelby fatally shot Crutcher on Friday while responding to a report of a stalled vehicle.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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I've been thinking he may have been on drugs for a while based on his actions. Will be interesting to hear autopsy report. May have been a case of both an overly vigilant cop, and a guy who was drugged out of his mind and not responding to police in a rational way.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
One thing we know though is that he was shot and unarmed. And if she as felt more threatened than ever before as she claims she was, despite several other cops around, then maybe she shouldn't be a cop in the first place?


I am guessing after this incident if she was that scared, she won't be a cop anymore any way.. weather she gets fired or not.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [dave_w] [ In reply to ]
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How many disabled vehicles have you seen straddling the center line of a two lane road? At least one witness reported him running from the vehicle claiming it was going to blow up. The officers were positioned in a way that clearly conveys the idea that nothing about the situation was safe or routine.

It would be shocking to learn that he wasn't high. We'll know soon enough. PCP doesn't stay in the system for long.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
To the surprise of no one...

Quote:
Tulsa Police Sgt. Dave Walker confirmed to the Tulsa World (http://bit.ly/2d6cYIh ) that investigators recovered a vial of PCP in Terence Crutcher's SUV. Tulsa police officer Betty Shelby fatally shot Crutcher on Friday while responding to a report of a stalled vehicle.

Pointing out facts is racist. Please stop.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Terence Crutcher [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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It would also be a convenient piece of evidence for the police, and easy to plant. But you can't plant PCP in the blood stream absent a massive conspiracy, so if he pops positive on autopsy, it would add clarifying context in terms of why the officers acted as they did. That says nothing of the appropriateness of lethal force, though, which is a separate question entirely.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Terence Crutcher [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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Haven't looked it up but my guess is that police recruitment and enrollment is waaaay down.

Who the hell would want to be a police officer after all that's happened the past few years.
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Re: Terence Crutcher [SkipG] [ In reply to ]
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I just said those words verbatim to my wife. Reference the riots in NC, after a man was shot for not complying with police and retrieving a handgun from his vehicle.

I'm increasingly convinced that social media will prove to be the downfall of our society.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Terence Crutcher [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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sphere wrote:
That says nothing of the appropriateness of lethal force, though, which is a separate question entirely.

Agreed. As mentioned earlier, my pure speculation was that she got nervous and fired. She has admitted that she was nervous and fired. None of the other cops fired.

Is she racist? Probably not. Is she fit to be a cop? Probably not.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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