Besides Erg mode, what are the benefits of a smart trainer over having say just a "dummy" trainer and using trainnerroad with a power meter?
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Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
No affixed rear wheel if you're using something like the Tacx Neo or Wahoo KICKR.
Less noisy. The KICKR is a bit quieter than most fluid trainers. The Neo is way quieter.
Resistance changes to the terrain when riding something like Zwift.
Ability to interact with smart phones and/or computers.
Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Less noisy. The KICKR is a bit quieter than most fluid trainers. The Neo is way quieter.
Resistance changes to the terrain when riding something like Zwift.
Ability to interact with smart phones and/or computers.
Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [The GMAN]
[ In reply to ]
The GMAN wrote:
No affixed rear wheel if you're using something like the Tacx Neo or Wahoo KICKR. Less noisy. The KICKR is a bit quieter than most fluid trainers. The Neo is way quieter.
Resistance changes to the terrain when riding something like Zwift.
Ability to interact with smart phones and/or computers.
I currently have CycleOps Fluid 2 and I wouldn't say noise is a problem and Tacx Neo and Wahoo Kickr are out of my price range. Currently I have CycleOps Fluid 2 with speed and cadence sensors interacting with trainerroad running on my iphone. Will be getting a power meter soon. It really seems like the automatic resistance changes may be the only main benefit for me. I'm really mainly considering the tacx vortex smart trainer since it's price point is good and it has good reviews.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
I use the Vortex for the same reason you mentioned, the Kickr was currently not fitting into the budget.
The Vortex can be had for $300 (check out Evan's), bluetooth/ANT+/FE-C, works with all the major training software, and is pretty darn quiet since it's using a brake. It doesn't have the great inertia you get with others, but it was an acceptable trade-off for all the training benefits.
Haven't had any real issues and use it daily with TrainerRoad and occasionally Zwift. Not a huge footprint (physical or sound), easily calibrated with phone or software, and is pretty portable.
If I had to do it again, I'd likely offload some old parts and so forth to try and make a Kickr fit the budget so I could get the wheel off benefit, flywheel, more stable attachment, and more consistent power readings, but this might only be a real consideration if, like me, you are using it 2+ times a day everyday of the week throughout the year.
One thing I would note about the Vortex, if you have a power meter, use that for your training (and Power Match in TrainerRoad). Mine, and it seems like a lot of others(?), have almost a 40w higher power reading from the Vortex when compared to a crank PM like the Quarq. So I just use the Quarq (or my Stages on another bike) as the PM data.
The Vortex can be had for $300 (check out Evan's), bluetooth/ANT+/FE-C, works with all the major training software, and is pretty darn quiet since it's using a brake. It doesn't have the great inertia you get with others, but it was an acceptable trade-off for all the training benefits.
Haven't had any real issues and use it daily with TrainerRoad and occasionally Zwift. Not a huge footprint (physical or sound), easily calibrated with phone or software, and is pretty portable.
If I had to do it again, I'd likely offload some old parts and so forth to try and make a Kickr fit the budget so I could get the wheel off benefit, flywheel, more stable attachment, and more consistent power readings, but this might only be a real consideration if, like me, you are using it 2+ times a day everyday of the week throughout the year.
One thing I would note about the Vortex, if you have a power meter, use that for your training (and Power Match in TrainerRoad). Mine, and it seems like a lot of others(?), have almost a 40w higher power reading from the Vortex when compared to a crank PM like the Quarq. So I just use the Quarq (or my Stages on another bike) as the PM data.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [f_herman]
[ In reply to ]
f_herman wrote:
I use the Vortex for the same reason you mentioned, the Kickr was currently not fitting into the budget. The Vortex can be had for $300 (check out Evan's), bluetooth/ANT+/FE-C, works with all the major training software, and is pretty darn quiet since it's using a brake. It doesn't have the great inertia you get with others, but it was an acceptable trade-off for all the training benefits.
Haven't had any real issues and use it daily with TrainerRoad and occasionally Zwift. Not a huge footprint (physical or sound), easily calibrated with phone or software, and is pretty portable.
If I had to do it again, I'd likely offload some old parts and so forth to try and make a Kickr fit the budget so I could get the wheel off benefit, flywheel, more stable attachment, and more consistent power readings, but this might only be a real consideration if, like me, you are using it 2+ times a day everyday of the week throughout the year.
One thing I would note about the Vortex, if you have a power meter, use that for your training (and Power Match in TrainerRoad). Mine, and it seems like a lot of others(?), have almost a 40w higher power reading from the Vortex when compared to a crank PM like the Quarq. So I just use the Quarq (or my Stages on another bike) as the PM data.
I'm getting a Stages power meter. So if I get the Vortex I would definitely being using Power Match in TrainerRoad. I'm doing about 4 sessions a week on my trainer. It would be nice to get a Kickr but far too expensive.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
TriTamp wrote:
f_herman wrote:
I use the Vortex for the same reason you mentioned, the Kickr was currently not fitting into the budget. The Vortex can be had for $300 (check out Evan's), bluetooth/ANT+/FE-C, works with all the major training software, and is pretty darn quiet since it's using a brake. It doesn't have the great inertia you get with others, but it was an acceptable trade-off for all the training benefits.
Haven't had any real issues and use it daily with TrainerRoad and occasionally Zwift. Not a huge footprint (physical or sound), easily calibrated with phone or software, and is pretty portable.
If I had to do it again, I'd likely offload some old parts and so forth to try and make a Kickr fit the budget so I could get the wheel off benefit, flywheel, more stable attachment, and more consistent power readings, but this might only be a real consideration if, like me, you are using it 2+ times a day everyday of the week throughout the year.
One thing I would note about the Vortex, if you have a power meter, use that for your training (and Power Match in TrainerRoad). Mine, and it seems like a lot of others(?), have almost a 40w higher power reading from the Vortex when compared to a crank PM like the Quarq. So I just use the Quarq (or my Stages on another bike) as the PM data.
I'm getting a Stages power meter. So if I get the Vortex I would definitely being using Power Match in TrainerRoad. I'm doing about 4 sessions a week on my trainer. It would be nice to get a Kickr but far too expensive.
One downside I forgot to mention regarding intervals and ERG on this thing (and maybe the others)...
If you are doing short intervals like TR English workout (1' on - 1' off - repeat), I have found that a lot of times the first 10-15" are spent below power as the brake is properly settling in. So your very short and specific efforts are going to be a bit off, in my experience. This is where a nice fluid trainer like the Road Machine is fantastic. However, if you can adjust your cadence a bit and anticipate the gradual change, then you should be fine. Granted, there are cases where the braking is far faster and you are in power range really quick. It's just something I wanted to point out. You might find you have to experiment a little with different workouts to get the feel for how things will function, how Power Match works for you, and so forth.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [f_herman]
[ In reply to ]
thanks. all good info. It's tempting when Evans has it so cheap.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
My Kickr doesn't give a shit if I'm tired. It makes me hit my intervals or quit.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [ffmedic84]
[ In reply to ]
ffmedic84 wrote:
My Kickr doesn't give a shit if I'm tired. It makes me hit my intervals or quit.This is why I love my Kickr too. It will kick your ass every time.
The newest smart trainer on the market is the CycleOps Hammer https://www.cycleops.com/product/hammer
Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [BryanD]
[ In reply to ]
BryanD wrote:
ffmedic84 wrote:
My Kickr doesn't give a shit if I'm tired. It makes me hit my intervals or quit.This is why I love my Kickr too. It will kick your ass every time.
The newest smart trainer on the market is the CycleOps Hammer https://www.cycleops.com/product/hammer
I don't think kickr or any other smart trainers have exclusive rights to kicking one's ass. My CycleOps Fluid 2 provides plenty of resistance.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
Unless you have used ERG mode, you have no idea what kind of ass kicking a Smart trainer can bring. I'm not saying that to be mean. ERG mode is tough. The trainer forces you to do work no matter what.
I used to have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine. When I got the Kickr, I was working harder than ever before. It's a big difference.
Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
I used to have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine. When I got the Kickr, I was working harder than ever before. It's a big difference.
Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
I would suggest that the only real benefit of a smart trainer is ERG mode, but don't underestimate the importance of it.
Imagine a form of training where you don't have to stare at your monitor, and constantly be adjusting your legs faster/slower in order to go hard enough, but not too hard, during your interval. And it happens automatically, at the beginning of your workout while your mind is still fresh, and even at the end of your workout when you're so beat down and can barely think of what the answer to 2+2= is...
It really is a different form of training. All you have to think about is keeping your feet moving. I started with a dumb trainer along with a Power Meter, have since upgraded to a KICKR, and don't regret the KICKR purchase at all.
Imagine a form of training where you don't have to stare at your monitor, and constantly be adjusting your legs faster/slower in order to go hard enough, but not too hard, during your interval. And it happens automatically, at the beginning of your workout while your mind is still fresh, and even at the end of your workout when you're so beat down and can barely think of what the answer to 2+2= is...
It really is a different form of training. All you have to think about is keeping your feet moving. I started with a dumb trainer along with a Power Meter, have since upgraded to a KICKR, and don't regret the KICKR purchase at all.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [BryanD]
[ In reply to ]
BryanD wrote:
Unless you have used ERG mode, you have no idea what kind of ass kicking a Smart trainer can bring. I'm not saying that to be mean. ERG mode is tough. The trainer forces you to do work no matter what. I used to have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine. When I got the Kickr, I was working harder than ever before. It's a big difference.
I'll take your word for it. I guess I'm trying to understand how it's different from when I'm using my dumb trainer with trainerroad and I keep it in the green to match the targeted power trainer road. Regardless, I like the idea of ERG mode and not having to shift gears.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
ERG mode means if you slow down the resistance gets harder and harder until the cranks stop. The only choice you have it to switch gears or hit the power required in each interval. On a fluid trainer, you can slack off a bit and miss your interval. On a Kickr, if you slow down you stop.
Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [BryanD]
[ In reply to ]
BryanD wrote:
ERG mode means if you slow down the resistance gets harder and harder until the cranks stop. The only choice you have it to switch gears or hit the power required in each interval. On a fluid trainer, you can slack off a bit and miss your interval. On a Kickr, if you slow down you stop.okay. That I did not know. So when doing a ftp test on an smart trainer I would not do the test in ERG mode. Now I'm seeing the benefit of a smart trainer even more.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
The Kickr has 3 settings. You can make the Kickr act like a fluid trainer to do an FTP test. You can also do your intervals in non-ERG mode too.
Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
Erg mode is pretty much the only reason why I'd ever upgrade from my setup (Quarq and Kurt Kinetic Rock n Roll).
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [f_herman]
[ In reply to ]
Evans has a nice price on the Vortex but I would be worried about returns, if there was an issue, since I'm in the US
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
TriTamp wrote:
Evans has a nice price on the Vortex but I would be worried about returns, if there was an issue, since I'm in the USYeah, check out the Tacx site maybe. I could be wrong, but I believe you are to deal directly with Tacx for warranty issues, anyway. At least that's what I recalled reading somewhere when researching forum posts before buying.
Either way, it's still a great price for a smart trainer whether you pay the Evan's price or something a bit higher. I definitely don't feel that the the others in the Kickr pool of trainers are $800USD fancier. But others may disagree. I feel you get a lot of value with it.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [f_herman]
[ In reply to ]
f_herman wrote:
TriTamp wrote:
Evans has a nice price on the Vortex but I would be worried about returns, if there was an issue, since I'm in the USYeah, check out the Tacx site maybe. I could be wrong, but I believe you are to deal directly with Tacx for warranty issues, anyway. At least that's what I recalled reading somewhere when researching forum posts before buying.
Either way, it's still a great price for a smart trainer whether you pay the Evan's price or something a bit higher. I definitely don't feel that the the others in the Kickr pool of trainers are $800USD fancier. But others may disagree. I feel you get a lot of value with it.
yeah. you're probably right. unless evans shipped it busted up, any warranty issues probably would be handled by tacx
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
TriTamp wrote:
BryanD wrote:
Unless you have used ERG mode, you have no idea what kind of ass kicking a Smart trainer can bring. I'm not saying that to be mean. ERG mode is tough. The trainer forces you to do work no matter what. I used to have a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine. When I got the Kickr, I was working harder than ever before. It's a big difference.
I'll take your word for it. I guess I'm trying to understand how it's different from when I'm using my dumb trainer with trainerroad and I keep it in the green to match the targeted power trainer road. Regardless, I like the idea of ERG mode and not having to shift gears.
Erg mode makes it a lot more consistent and mentally easier to hold the interval.
You are correct in assuming you'll get a similar workout by just holding the power steady on your fluid trainer. It's a bit better on the erg mode though - no wimping out on those late intervals, and a MUCH more reproducible workout experience, which allows for a lot smaller incremental power improvements. (Try targeting +3 watts of power on each interval on a fluid trainer/TR, something that is eminently doable on the Kickr.)
I find erg mode particularly good for long rides and long intervals, where it takes a lot of mental energy to not either blow up too early or slack off in the end, especially when you're really pushing to your limits.
Erg mode is great, and once you use it, it's very hard to imagine going back to the non erg bike trainer, but no, it's not some magic bullet that will on its own take your cycling to the next level.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
I like riding routes on my smart trainer so the big benefit for me is that it's more fun than my old fluid trainer and I like the variability I get with elevation changes. On my fluid trainer I ended up riding in a tight cadence range all winter and sometimes it took a few rides to adjust to outdoors where my cadence would vary more holding power over varying terrain. I have a power meter so I don't need the power on the trainer so it's mainly about virtual training for me. Give me a route with good video and some intervals and I can ride the trainer for a few hours without getting bored.
I tried erg mode a couple times and hated it. I wasn't as mentally engaged in the workout and felt like it held me back. Adjusting your FTP during an interval is annoying and short intervals are tough because it takes about 10-15 seconds for the trainer to react to big resistance changes. I usually combine courses and workouts so I have to hit my power targets on my own while dealing with elevation changes at the same time, just like race day.
I tried erg mode a couple times and hated it. I wasn't as mentally engaged in the workout and felt like it held me back. Adjusting your FTP during an interval is annoying and short intervals are tough because it takes about 10-15 seconds for the trainer to react to big resistance changes. I usually combine courses and workouts so I have to hit my power targets on my own while dealing with elevation changes at the same time, just like race day.
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [TriTamp]
[ In reply to ]
TriTamp wrote:
Besides Erg mode, what are the benefits of a smart trainer over having say just a "dummy" trainer and using trainnerroad with a power meter?It's the best way to instantly increase your FTP
Re: Benefits of a smart trainer [pknight]
[ In reply to ]
pknight wrote:
TriTamp wrote:
Besides Erg mode, what are the benefits of a smart trainer over having say just a "dummy" trainer and using trainnerroad with a power meter?It's the best way to instantly increase your FTP
awesome. I'll add it right along with the instant swim fixes thread. Get a few instant run fixes and I write a book titled "Set it and forget it triathlon training"
On fluid trainers I have a tendency to blow up early on. If I don't have my eyes glued to my garmin when on a fluid trainer I'll easily find myself 20%+ above my target power in the first ten minutes of the ride and then, later on, I'll often find myself too low.
With smart trainers you're basically paying for training discipline. I have my workouts programmed for me (Trainer Road) so I just show up and push the pedals.
With smart trainers you're basically paying for training discipline. I have my workouts programmed for me (Trainer Road) so I just show up and push the pedals.