I have no advice to offer beyond the standard parenting cautions... but want to commend you for your willingness to step up to the plate and take on a kid in need.

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"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

I went to a two hour information session a few weeks back. They could not stress enough that:

1. Newborns simply do not come along very often. (yes, aware that is not what you are looking for).
2. The rest of the kids will have issues. Every single one of them. You need to be fully aware that you will be signing up for meltdowns and probably lots of defiance. That being said, all the kids do just want to be loved and be "normal". Even if they themselves aren't capable of it.

Good luck.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Crap, I thought you were looking for someone to adopt you. I was going to put my name in that hat.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Dad, I want a new bike!

We already have a 16yo (he's my step son, very good kid, but gets defiant every so often....he's 16 after all).
And yes, nearly all of them have lived hard lives up to now. We went to the first day of training yesterday. 8 weeks left.
Some of the stories are heart wrenching...

We've done it (Russian adoption and a never completed domestic adoption).

1. Gut check time. You will be put through the ringer emotionally. HTFU.

2. Paper work. More paper work. Lost paper work (do it again). Expired home study (do it again). Some more paper work (you get the idea).

3. Be prepared to be treated with suspicion by 'the authorities'. Certain individuals (sometimes) have agendas as well.

4. Money will be extracted from your bank account at alarming rates.

5. Be supportive of your wife but watch out (see #1).

6. More paper work.

7. One thing that was totally unexpected was that we had people contact us during the process with possible matches who turned out to be scammers. Never give anyone money without them being vetted by your agency or attorney. We have no idea hoe this people got our information. We were contacted and offered placement. The red flags were 'let's do this without attorneys' and 'we need $$ assistance in order to (whatever excuse) before you can meet the child'.

8. Good luck and hang in there.

9. Congratulations!

PS: off to work right now but if you have questions or want me to elaborate, etc. I can respond more this evening.

PM or public is ok..

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

We went through either a 32-40 hour educational process for Foster Care licensing and the system is F'd up. The policy in our state is reunification no matter what meaning if mom gets out of jail for the third time in two years and wants to regain custody, chances are the children go back. We were told that unless parents terminated their rights, it would be a minimum of three years before we could start the adoption process whereby the kids could be taken on no notice if a parent/ blood relative wanted them. After learning this along with all the scary, sad, emotional issues these children likely have during our training, we decided not to pursue it until our kids are older.

I would suggest going through whatever certification process there is in your state which will include a bunch of education. You will likely need to shell out a couple hundred for background checks and you may need to make a series of home improvements.

Good luck.

Perhaps. But you have to do your chores, finish your homework, and be respectful to mom. Then I'll think about it.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

My buddy did this. Be prepared for a long period of fostering and legal bullshit while the parents rights are terminated. Then be prepared for the extended family to to extort money in order to allow the process to proceed. In addition child services though facially incompetent will put you through the ringer because it's easier to harass you than do their job with families that abuse their kids.

I find it amazing the hoops people have to go through to adopt a child. The paperwork, the training, the background checks, the means tests, etc. Why don't they do this with people before they have children. There would probably be a lot less children in need of adoption if they did this.

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Charity is injurious unless it helps the recipient to become independent of it. John D. Rockefeller Sr.

I have lots of respect for those people who are willing to go through the process of adoption. It is difficult and trying. Good luck.

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Suffer Well.

My wife and I have started the training process to be adoptive parents. We aren't looking at adopting necessarily a baby, but one of the many kids who often times have big family issues etc.

What age? In US or outside?

I've never gone thru the process of adopting from an agency. We did adopt an older child from a a troubled back ground but the adoption came from with in the family not thru an agency.

Couple comments.

1) Adopting an older child is far more complex of an issue from a raising the child standpoint then adopting a baby. There is a WHOLE lot of development that takes place from ages 1-4 that biological parents take for granted because they take place relatively naturally, bonding etc. These have a MASSIVE effect on ability to form relationships later in life.

2) IF you're adopting an older child from with in the US there is typically a decent amount of assitance available to pay for various services. Therapy, training etc etc.

3) I would STRONGLY recommend therapy and counseling right off the bat for older adoptions. Not only for the kid but for the adoptive parents as well. A professional, well a good one, can often spot problems, knows what to look for, etc that can more easily be dealt with at a younger age then when they become a bigger problem, 10 years later and they are now 12-14 years old...think your 16 year old problems on steroids :-)

4) If adopting from an agency I would pay close attention for other issues. Birth issues from drugs, abuse etc. Not saying these are necessarily a no go but you should know up front if that is something you are ready to deal with or not and what future complications could be involved.

~Matt

My wife and I have been on the wait list for about a year. No comments on actually parenting adopted children, other than the fct that every single one of them has been through a trauma, or many. So you have to bear that in mind as you develop parenting strategies, there are things that you can do with biological kids that just won't work with a lot of adopted kids, time-outs for instance.

From our experience, the one thing that you aren't prepared for is how invasive the home-study process is prior to approval (may be different in your state, but here it was quite in-depth), and how emotional the waiting game is. We've been shortlisted a couple of times, and each time a different family was selected. Even though we've tried to keep a barrier up and not get too invested in the kids (we just get a written profile of the child), you can't help but develop an attachment and imagine what they would be like in your home. The first time we were shortlisted, the adoption worker sent us photos of the kids as well. I would recommend that you specifically ask to NOT receive photos. We attached to them almost instantly, and it was terrible when we weren't selected.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

I've been through the foster-to-adoption process.

I suspect the process is highly variable depending on state law. We are in California, and even here, how the law is applied varies wildly from one county to the next. We worked with Orange County, and I found the vast majority of social workers we worked with to be extremely diligent and helpful. I have nothing but positive praise for them, but I've also heard different stories of different experiences elsewhere. Even a few of the social workers told us of horror stories that appalled them.

My experience may also be different because we were related to the child. (My cousin was the birth mother.) Being family exempted us from the foster educational requirements, and the certification process was streamlined. It also exempted us from any of the adoption fees that are otherwise charged -- we even were appointed a lawyer to draft the adoption paperwork. That said, the rest of the process wasn't too dissimilar -- a couple partners of mine went through it too without the family connection, and their experience dealing with visits, potential reunification, etc., was similar.

Duffy is right in that it is an emotional roller coaster. We didn't take her in as a foster child with the original intent to adopt. We had received a desperate call from my cousin (who I hadn't seen in 11 years) that her child had been taken and that she would prefer that we foster instead of a stranger. We were initially told around six months, but it quickly became apparent that my cousin's problems were severe, that reunification was unlikely, and that adoption was the best option for everyone. My cousin and the birth father, who was in prison at the time, didn't initially agree, so that prolonged the process.

In California, children placed in foster care who are under three years old are treated differently than older kids. While reunification with the birth parents is still the goal, the birth parents aren't given the same amount of chances as provided to parents of older children. It's essentially 6 months, with two possible six month extensions, at which point services to the parents are cut off and proceedings initiated to terminate parental rights and adopt out the child. I believe the idea is that it's easier to adopt when the child is young, so waiting too long with a young child might eliminate the option. Regardless, parents are almost always given the extensions, and if they fight (and appeals are on their own dime), they can drag it out.

It's the uncertainty that's so emotional. You've become attached to the child. You know the parents are unfit. But every so often, they'll do something that makes you think they just might be able to fool the social workers. We were fortunate in that we were eventually able to get my cousin and the birth dad to not contest the adoption.

One of my co-workers that went through the process had the first child that was placed in his home removed after three months because a distant relative was found. They almost gave up at that point, but decided to foster one more child with the intention of adopting. But the first experience made them hyper-sensitive to every little turn that took place with the second child. The adoption was finalized in about two years, but it was two years full of stress.

Another point is that even with young children and infants, you may still have behavioral and developmental issues. If an infant is removed from his or her parents, there's a good chance that the parents are addicts, which also means that there's a good chance the mother was using when pregnant. If it's not drugs, or even if it is, there's also a good chance that one or both birth parents have some form of serious mental illness. With our daughter, both birth parents were users and both have serious mental illnesses. We were never able to get a clear answer as to whether my cousin used during her pregnancy -- she denies it, but she's also a liar. Our daughter is fine for now, but the potential inheritability of some mental illnesses is concerning. We consulted with a psychiatrist over it, know generally what to look for, and have tried to teach coping and other skills in the event something develops when she gets older.

From what I understand, some children are already in the 'free to adopt category' (e.g. the parents have renounced their rights, or the state has decided they were given enough chances). So it makes things a bit less roller coaster like (hopefully). Virtually all the younger kids have serious mental issues, requiring one parent to be full time, so it's not possible for us. However, they nearly all have behavioral/emotional issues, and the extent varies widely. A good friend of mine (and colleague) is a clinical psych for kids, so we have some support close.

We, like Duffy, adopted from Russia about 6 years ago. Everything Duffy wrote pretty much spot on so I won't waste bandwidth repeating it. Good luck to you. Be flexible and patient because it will be frustrating at times.

From what I understand, some children are already in the 'free to adopt category'

I have no idea what this means legally and I also suspect that it changes from state to state.

In my case we went thru several years of attempting to severe parental rights of both the father and mother. The mother was still somewhat in the picture but the father was completely out of the picture. We did all the filings, publications etc etc and the fathers parental rights were severed, legally, thru the process. However upon the death of the biological mother the father suddenly showed up at the funeral and decided he wanted parental rights. He started the process up again by simply saying "I never got anything and didn't know anything about the process". This was actually correct...because no one knew where he was and the BS we went thru was largely put aside.

A couple years later we were finally finished and largely only because he gave up.

My point here would be I'd be very careful what the "Free to adopt category" means. It could be that the proper notices where sent out and publicized or it could be that the parents voluntarily signed their rights away and in my experience those are two VERY different scenarios. I think legally the former leaves the door open to a bio parent getting a foot back in the door.

~Matt

A good friend of mine (and colleague) is a clinical psych for kids, so we have some support close.

Again, can't reiterate how important this is.

We made the mistake of not doing this largely because it was an "Inside the family" adoption and there was some sense of what the prior conditions where. However we clearly underestimated the effect and depth of those conditions. It wasn't until she started getting older that we realized how much effect those early years had and the depth of the issues present...not to mention that how we had been parenting for the last 4-5 years was probably not the best way to deal with a child with the issues she had.

What comes "Naturally" as a parent may not be the best way to parent any kid. While you may be able to get away with those less then optimal parenting techniques with a bio kid, they will definitely come back and bite you in the arse with a kid with various emotional issues.

Best of luck.

~Matt

I found this interesting... others may not.

One person in our group asked a question about having a natural child and adopting. The lady leading our session mentioned that for some reason adoptive parents who already have a kid are more likely to (for lack of a better term) ask for a refund on the adopted kid when the going gets tough.

I can only guess that it's "I already have a kid, I don't need this hassle".

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I have two friends going through the same process and my wife and I had this very discussion. The money, red tape and BS you go through to provide a good home is crazy. The easiest process seems to be adopting a family member. One of our friends had this opportunity arise. A second cousin got pregnant as a teen and is a loser. The mother took custody but is in no position to raise the child and wants to put her up for adoption before too much attachment. Enter our friend. This seems to be the most viable. They have been in process with an agency for a long time and will continue that as well.

The other is going through the process and it is ridiculous. They have already spent 60K. Way to start a new family, in debt.

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"In the world I see you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Towers. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying stripes of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway." T Durden

Actually, the term is 'legally free to adopt'. But we are very careful indeed.

ne person in our group asked a question about having a natural child and adopting. The lady leading our session mentioned that for some reason adoptive parents who already have a kid are more likely to (for lack of a better term) ask for a refund on the adopted kid when the going gets tough.

Were doing it the other way around....no idea WTF I was thinking :-)

The adoptive experience was...well...let's see...hmmm...well, let's just leave it at tough. I kind of wanted to find out what bio parents went thru and if it turns out to be similar I will eternally wonder how our species has survived this long.

~Matt

Actually, the term is 'legally free to adopt'. But we are very careful indeed.

Again, didn't have to go thru the process thru an agency but, at least in IL, severing parental rights is near impossible. You can essentially beat your kid, abandon them by the side of the road and end up in jail for the assault and they won't severe parental rights.

The Bio mother essential abandoned our daughter, which was my wifes great niece, for nearly four months with us. The response from the state was "Well she made arrangements for her care so...nothing to see here...move along"

We were in court and fighting for parental rights for 3-4 years and had no success. We had "Legally" severed the fathers rights because he was not in the picture...or so we thought. Wasn't until the Bio mom died that we finally got parental rights...well almost...then the bio Dad shows up crying foul.

Just a horror story to make sure that every "i" is dotted and every "T" is crossed and that even that sometimes is not enough.

~Matt

Legally free to adopt means that either parents have relinquished their rights or that the court has decided so. Looking at the various sites, it happens quite a bit (it also seems to be kids who have more emotional baggage).