When a guy is swimming backstroke in the Ironman World Championships, which Flanagan did a few times and it was remarked upon in the online broadcast, I think it is reasonable to think he is sacrificing his own swim for someone or something else, yes.

The biggest difference I can see is that Flanagan and Potts were faster.

None of this is to say that I necessarily think that it is either right or policeable to give penalties for this, but it does seem like the same thing to me.

"why is one type of pacing is ok and the other kind not?"

it call comes down to a preposition: with or for. when you're working with someone, and you each have as the goal your own best performance, that's okay as long as you obey the rule (draft zone, etc.). when your purpose in the race is to work for someone, that's when you run afoul of the rules.

does this help? or did you already know this and you're asking WHY it's not okay for one person to have as his race ambition working for somebody else?
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i am saying that it appears that a lot of people seem to think that the rule is not up to date given the dynamics and participation numbers in the sport, which dosnt really make it an individual event anymore.
ie it is a sport that is closer or as close to stage cycling ( where domestiques are essential) than an indivdual sport .
and if people are allowed to work with each other, somebody is likely being at a disadvantage, so why should this person not be able to outbalance this disadvantage
you did not give that option in the poll so the closest one to this is saying its legal and fine .

personally i see it its more a bigger picture question, to decide whats right .
if we keep the field as big as it is than we probably have to change the rules.
or we make the field smaller , increase the non drafting zone to 20 meter have even bigger gaps between males females and age grouper starts. and do give penalties, if we feel someobdy subordiantes ones race ( i think a DQ is too harsh as a penalty for something that is not that easy to call )

"I agree with everything you say here, and wish you would expend some of this firepower on Barrie publicly as well as/instead of Matt publicly."

i have no problem confronting barrie on this pubicly but did you read barrie's most recent post? it was straight-up, man-up, bad decision, my decision, i take full responsibility. that solved it, for me, as did lionel's post.

i have no reason to think matt is anything but the same kind of straight-up, man-up kind of person that i believe barrie and lionel to be. it's just that both barrie and lionel, maybe upon reflection, had a chance to contemplate a decision that in retrospect was ill-conceived. welcome to the club! do you want me to list all of my ill-conceived decisions, many of which played out in public? how much time have you got?

i did this race when matt chrabot was minus-2 years old. i've invested a lot in this race as so many people have. this specific issue has been a recurrent one. it would be nice to just put this to bed once and for all (i thought we did). if you look at the opinion piece i wrote on this today on the home page, a "related article" link at the bottom of that article is another one from 2011, almost exactly the same. this has been a recurring problem in kona since the 1980s, just not a very public one.

maybe this is a good opportunity to just have it out about this issue (lionel seems to think he was getting paced, whether or not matt thinks he was an active pacer). it's clear that there is a lot of disagreement about the legality of this, but it's not a matter of opinion. those who feel this behavior is legal are naive or misinformed, or i worded the poll badly. pacing is not legal. it is against both pro and AG rules, but it is doubly against the pro rules because they're bound by both the pro and the USAT rules, i.e., the rules are cumulative, not either/or, unless ironman specifically asked for and was granted an abatement from the USAT rules.

Did you ever come over to the southeast to race at say Gulf Coast, Memphis in May, St Anthony's, or Hilton Head??? //
Most all those races coincided with a big pro race here on the west coast, so unfortunately I really never got to do some of the iconic ones. I did do Hilton head a few times when it was the USTS championship in the mid and late 80's. For a flat course it was surprisingly challenging. Usually the swim was into some big head current, and often a little surf too. As I recall the ride had lots of turns, and most of the roads open to traffic back then too. And of course the heat and humidity, that was always a given there, just like here in Kona.
I remember one race there I flatted with about 7 miles to go and opted to just ride the rim. Think I only lost about 30 seconds on the lead group that i was with when it punctured, so ended up a good call to just ride it. Of course had to call up HED and get another wheel, but I think i got like 6th and cashed pretty good that day. Reading about Ryf and her late race flat brought back that memory of that race. Of course i was on sew ups on a flat course, not sure what she was riding, but certainly a couple hills and turns to contend with, but only for something like 2k it was? Thats manageable on anything, and beats the hell out of wasting time changing it.

I agree with everything you said, with one qualification: The "shit" that stops is three things: the behavior of athletes, the ambiguity of the rules, and of guys like Barry Siff and Barrie Sheply pulling that JV crap that they pulled, which could have totally ruined a young athlete's career and might still perhaps negatively affect Matt Chrabot.

Indeed, I don't remember an op-ed or a poll on Rapp's bike 'tactics'

I still think you could have collusion, just not as blatant as before. So the potential problem still exists.

"Dan, how does an official know who swims what speed?"

would you be throwing up all these roadblocks if it was course cutting? look, we're not going to catch all course cutters and dopers. but we can catch some. we can put people on alert. we can penalize it when we obviously see it.

"Dan, how does an official know who swims what speed?"

would you be throwing up all these roadblocks if it was course cutting? look, we're not going to catch all course cutters and dopers. but we can catch some. we can put people on alert. we can penalize it when we obviously see it.