Does anyone else remember 2011-12 when Chrabot sacrificed himself for the good of US triathlon, forgoing greater financial gain in order to garner points for the US Olympic cause. He could have cherry picked and waited for the Trials like many low points Americans did, but he kept hammering to gain our starting spots. After all of his efforts, he had the rug pulled out from under him by USAT with a one and done Olympic Trial event. He didn't cry foul, but kept his chin up and took some time to re-evaluate what his future would hold. Those of you who question his character are way off base.
This forum provides good fodder, that can be analyzed and twisted into various forms, but to personally attack someone's character is out of line.

Just prior to the only part of the video I recall showing Chrabot turning to look back at Sanders and/or whatever else, does anyone else remember the fact the commentator crew blasted right through our national anthem. Matt Lieto kept right on yakking into the mike while someone performed the anthem. Add that to the list of things to remedy.

I'm not sure it's correct to say that he had the "rug pulled out from under him." The qualification process was clear. And Matt's interests were not solely altruistic. Had he not raced as much as he did, the US could easily have ended up with only one slot, which would have put him at an even greater disadvantage. It was hard enough to get a slot on the team when the US had two slots.

So yes, the US benefitted from Matt's racing, but it was also in Matt's own best interests. All the athletes knew the system in advance. I'm not saying the system was fair, but it wasn't exactly a surprise either.

There was never any guarantee that the athletes who earned the spots would be the athletes who got the spots.

This is not a commentary either way on Matt's character. I'm just pointing out that your example that Matt racing a lot also improved his own chances of being able to go to the Olympics. I don't really think it shows anything about his character. It just shows that he was smart enough to know that he had a better chance of making of the team if the US had two slots.

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"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp

Typical Twitch hunt. I can't wait until the next scandal to pop up so we can find another topic to beat to death.

I could honestly care less what happened at the race, but obviously this bothered you enough that you actually took the time to put this writing piece together... you should have thought a bit longer before hitting send...I think you were far better off before this was posted

I agree with you.

But some folks will spin what he did into a half empty glass, as really anyone can do with just about anything in life.

I continue to be blown away at so many top folks in our sport who have chosen to go into and stay in the mud pit. But where is the focus on getting to the root cause of what happened, which is NOT what 99.9% of the posts are talking about, and trying to improve things for the future?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Do you not recall Matt Reed's Olympic push? USAT compelled him to keep racing for spots despite the fact he already had one. He peaked for S. Africa I believe, only to have an average Olympic race. Point being, both Matts do as they are told, to the disadvantage of both. Chrabot was, on average, the strongest American his Olympic campaign. Why waste your energy if you're consistently fastest American. It would have been more prudent to save up for the Trials, had he not been employed by USAT to further the US Olympic cause. He was loyal to the hand that fed him at the time, and I think that does speak to character.

BTW, sorry to read about your seat issues.

You forgot with-the-current swims and downhills on both B and R:)

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Glad you posted, hope you do so more often. As much as I was hoping you'd make London '12, I thought you'd do even better at long course where your bike could be maximized. Have a great season and hopefully we can see full power Sharrr-bott next year at Kona!

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

(QUOTE) "If you look at the opinion piece i wrote on this today on the home page, a "related article" link at the bottom of that article is another one from 2011, almost exactly the same. this has been a recurring problem in Kona since the 1980s, just not a very public one.

Dan - I read both articles and the 2011 one really rang a bell when you talked about Andy Carlson getting to the run turn-around at Wildflower before the race officials had put out the "orange cone" marking the exact spot to turn around. So, JOOC, what happened at that race??? Surely Carlson could not have been expected to know the precise point on the trail where he was supposed to turn around??? I suspect i know the answer, that he got screwed and ended up in 7th place or something, just b/c the stupid ass race officials did not get that kind of crucial cone in place in time. Maybe it was that race that caused him to quit triathlon altogether, which was a shame since IIRC he swam around 15:20 for 1500 lcm, and could run around 30 flat for the 10K.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

rang a bell when you talked about Andy Carlson getting to the run turn-around at Wildflower before the race officials had put out the "orange cone" marking the exact spot to turn around. So, JOOC, what happened at that race??? Surely Carlson could not have been expected to know the precise point on the trail where he was supposed to turn around??? //



Actually this is one of the rare times the RD took responsibility for the screw up, and it was just not Andy, but the top dozen pros or so. Andy did not finish the race, but was awarded 1st place prize money i believe, just as there were many double ups in the payouts. For the guys that actually got a place, and those that might have gotten that place. There is an article somewhere here on the payout, over 25k i believe it cost Terry to make it right with the pros...

Wow, i am shocked but very pleased to hear Andy was not screwed, as i was figuring for sure that was what happened. Highest praise to that RD, if he/she ever happens to read this.

So, how did it work out on the ground??? Did Andy just keep running and get lost or??? Were you in that race that day??? Thanks for the inside scoop, this is what I love about ST: you can learn stuff here that you would never, ever learn anywhere else:))))

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Yes I was in the race, got equal 3rd with Ken Glah I believe. The 9 mile run turn cone was missing and most of the top racers missed the turn(as you say, how you gonna know where in the middle of a road a turn is if not marked somehow). People went different distances past it, I went about a 1/2mile while running with Kenny, and just knew it was too far. I told him we ought to turn around and head back, others like Andy had never done the race, and ended up way off.

After the race was over, guys figured out where about they turned around, and a time was allotted for that mistake. After subtracting that time, they were put in a place, a place of course that someone already got that did not miss the turn(obviously it got fixed at some point). SO what Terry Davis did was double up those prize places out of his own pocket. Cost him a lot of money back then, but it bought the good will of the pros forever. It is one of the reasons you see such big names at Wildflower over the 30+ years, just because of things like this that Terry does for the pro fields.

If you really want to know the kind of guy Terry is, here is my interview with Timothy here on ST, worth a read:

http://www.slowtwitch.com/...s_addition_2735.html

Who was the competitor? If it was Mayor Billy Kenoi, I believe he had a security person who raced with him. Either way, the rules are different for AGers and pros.

Great interview there, thanks for the link!!! Did you ever come over to the southeast to race at say Gulf Coast, Memphis in May, St Anthony's, or Hilton Head???

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Did you ever come over to the southeast to race at say Gulf Coast, Memphis in May, St Anthony's, or Hilton Head??? //

Most all those races coincided with a big pro race here on the west coast, so unfortunately I really never got to do some of the iconic ones. I did do Hilton head a few times when it was the USTS championship in the mid and late 80's. For a flat course it was surprisingly challenging. Usually the swim was into some big head current, and often a little surf too. As I recall the ride had lots of turns, and most of the roads open to traffic back then too. And of course the heat and humidity, that was always a given there, just like here in Kona.

I remember one race there I flatted with about 7 miles to go and opted to just ride the rim. Think I only lost about 30 seconds on the lead group that i was with when it punctured, so ended up a good call to just ride it. Of course had to call up HED and get another wheel, but I think i got like 6th and cashed pretty good that day. Reading about Ryf and her late race flat brought back that memory of that race. Of course i was on sew ups on a flat course, not sure what she was riding, but certainly a couple hills and turns to contend with, but only for something like 2k it was? Thats manageable on anything, and beats the hell out of wasting time changing it.

maybe this is a good opportunity to just have it out about this issue (lionel seems to think he was getting paced, whether or not matt thinks he was an active pacer). it's clear that there is a lot of disagreement about the legality of this, but it's not a matter of opinion. those who feel this behavior is legal are naive or misinformed, or i worded the poll badly. pacing is not legal. it is against both pro and AG rules, but it is doubly against the pro rules because they're bound by both the pro and the USAT rules, i.e., the rules are cumulative, not either/or, unless ironman specifically asked for and was granted an abatement from the USAT rules.
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why is one type of pacing is ok and the other kind not ?
it seems that many people understand the rule but have an issue with the fact that when pacing off people is legal in the sport most of the time so why it should not be allowed in this case.
so what those people seem to say is that the rule is wrong. and i think you did not ask that.

and of course its seen all the times in Itu racing that domestiques are part of the game .

so I guess the people that have no issue with it seem to believe that over the years the sport has moved away from an individual sport to something that is closer to stage cycling than a pure tt and therefore think its ok in triathlon.

I guess also some might think if it was so clear why was no penalties given if the commentators saw it why not the referee ?

Did you have this opinion of John Flanagan clearly pulling Andy Potts along in 2009? Flanagan did everything Chrabot did this year, looking back for Potts, swimming backstroke to make sure he was there.

But I don't recall anyone getting upset about it.

Hijacking this thread for a better topic. For this reason only Monty, I would urge athletes to go to Wildflower IF we get to have the race again next year (pray for enough rain). Even with the split transition run, the race is beyond awesome (actually the race is maybe even more fun with the split run). Terry Davis continues to take care of the athletes, pros and age groupers alike. I was actually disappointed to see so many of my California based peers heading over to St. George vs doing Wildflower.

Jordan seems very active on this topic. Anything to do with Chrabot complaining to his agent after a penalty Jordan got him at Arizona?

Seems like some want to keep this topic alive due to old bad blood.

"why is one type of pacing is ok and the other kind not?"

it call comes down to a preposition: with or for. when you're working with someone, and you each have as the goal your own best performance, that's okay as long as you obey the rule (draft zone, etc.). when your purpose in the race is to work for someone, that's when you run afoul of the rules.

does this help? or did you already know this and you're asking WHY it's not okay for one person to have as his race ambition working for somebody else?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"Did you have this opinion of John Flanagan clearly pulling Andy Potts along in 2009?"

i don't remember the particulars of that, but, i would have no problem with that unless flanagan's purpose in the race was to aid potts's race. if flanagan's strategy was to make sure potts got away with him in the swim so that the two could ride together, fine. if flanagan's sole or primary purpose for racing was to aid potts, then that would be a problem.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Indeed, I don't remember an op-ed or a poll on Rapp's bike 'tactics'

Flanagan swam a 47-something that year and was first out of the swim. He and Potts were over two minutes faster than the next group out of the water. Do you really think Flanagan sacrificed his swim or slowed down for Potts?

When a guy is swimming backstroke in the Ironman World Championships, which Flanagan did a few times and it was remarked upon in the online broadcast, I think it is reasonable to think he is sacrificing his own swim for someone or something else, yes.

The biggest difference I can see is that Flanagan and Potts were faster.

None of this is to say that I necessarily think that it is either right or policeable to give penalties for this, but it does seem like the same thing to me.

Sheeesh. So many people losing sleep over what? An hour-PLUS swim?