I still stand by "Who cares?". If this gets your panties in a bundle, never do a mass start bike race, never do a track race with a rabbit, never run a marathon with a pacer. Never throw a bowling ball down an oiled lane. All aerodynamics added to a bike should be illegal. & while we are at it, tailwinds should be illegal too.

Bull shit.///

I think this sums up what Matt had to say here as succinctly as possible. Does anyone here not get that he just called Barry and Lionel blatant liars? I think since Matt is brand new here he does not understand how the internet and forums work. A place for newbies to learn how to tri? Talk about a newbie, how about read the thread first about Lionel and Barry, and then use your brain to figure out that you were already outed by two reputable people. Calling them liars just makes you look bad, and you lost a lot of fans with this, your first post.


At this point I would highly suggest to just disappear from this if you intend to dig your feet in and continue to throw your friends under the bus. Don't be fooled by a couple posts by H20, you would do well to ask someone about his posts. Best case would be to just cop to it all, since you all really did not think it was technically breaking any rules, and was Ok's by the head referee. In retrospect all parties involved and now said it was a bad idea(except you of course), so just man up and move on.


Remember it is the cover up that usually ends up worse than the crime in these situations, no one though ill of you prior to your first post here to defend the indefensible.

My post above was prior to reading the remainder of the other thread on this, so I'll claim ignorance even though that's not a good defense.

But yeah, after seeing all that was said, and by whom it was said---to this thread....just, wow.

Thanks, better than being a lemming.

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Interesting that the vast majority in the poll think it is legal.

As I say, folks should be putting their energy into getting the rules improved, rather than attacking others, but we all know this is not the ST way.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I have the 2014 NBC Kona coverage taped. There's a featured competitor who has the same guy with him as he exits the swim......the bike....and leaves on the run.

This isn't legal?

I assume you should be asking the experts here.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I would venture a guess that many of those people who said it was legal are basing that determination on the fact that they believed they had Jimmy R's consent. I get the impression that many think that this one particular circumstance was made legal by virtue of having the head ref's ok (even if he did not fully understand what he had ok'ed), not that the practice is generally legal.

It is tough to get these distinctions to fit into a poll sized answer.

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It was pointed to no one in particular. I just hit "reply" on your post.

Sorry.

For me, you can take the "data" and spin it whatever way you want to get the answer you like. This says to me we have a rule problem since ALL of us should be able to read a rule and come to the same answer. If not, keep working on improving the way the rule is written.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I didn't particularly care about this pacing issue (although seems to be pretty clearly against the rules per Dan's article and agree that clarification is nonetheless in order) until Matt wrote such blatantly untrue statements about why he was looking back, etc. It's simply offensive that he could possibly think we are such morons. Kudos to barie and Lionel for being straight with the public. I loved the chatt sprint finish and that made me a fan of Matt. No longer.

It's legal for athletes with disabilities. People that are legally blind have completed Ironman with the aid of a helper.

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What the hell? What does bike aerodynamics, tailwinds, and bowling balls have to do with a pre-arranged agreement to aid someone in a swim? Lionel and Barrie screwed up. Matt screwed up by agreeing to it. Is Lionel that bad at Triathlon he needed someone to pace him in the swim? Then again, he did wear a Camelback under his bike jersey....

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Interesting that the vast majority in the poll think it is legal. //

As did I dave, has nothing to do what so ever about my feeling on what Matt has come on here and said...

Lionel owned up + Barrie provided an accountable apology that you gave kudo's to + Chrabot outlines his take = case closed.

Lets move on.

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@rhyspencer

The competitor wasn't blind (2014 Kona WC).

I don't care one way or another. It's just very obvious on the coverage. I assumed it was cool.

My post above was prior to reading the remainder of the other thread on this, so I'll claim ignorance even though that's not a good defense.

But yeah, after seeing all that was said, and by whom it was said---to this thread....just, wow. //

Ya, if you read and understood the other thread in its entirety, how could you possibly come to any other conclusion that Matt is trying to misdirect at the best, and just plain lying at the worst. I hate that he did this because whenever I see someone so blatantly lying, I then get this thought, what else in their character is suspect?

On the other had, I have so much more respect for Lionel, and even Barry now than i did before. They have turned a negative into a positive in my eyes. In this day and age it is probably not something I would do, but in my day it is certainly something I might have done or considered. I pushed up against the rules(or lack there of) many times. In fact, many rules were made because of me, because I had the foresight to take advantage of anything I could see, starting with sleeping bag ties on my shoes so I didn't have to tie them!!!! And then a one piece suit to avoid all that transition time. And that time I ran barefoot and won by 2 seconds, or that time I wore my wetsuit on the bike for a mile to get the one mile bike prime, or the time I had my helmet in my mouth out of transition and put it on once down the road and moving fast, and on and on.

Monti, I think you went a bit far here.

This is what Barrie said in his last post in the other thread: "Matt Charbot planned on just cruising the course for recognizance for 2016 and because he wasn’t racing, as a friend he agreed to have Lionel on his hip during the swim. ".

What Matt said in this thread does fit with this description of the "agreement". I can't see where from comparing Barrie's and Matt's explanations you can say that Matt is a liar (let alone an asshole) and throws his friends under a bus!?!

Actually Barry and Lionel say a lot more than your one quote, and here is one from Matt that just goes contrary to everything they said and what we saw on race day;;




I just wanted to swim well enough to stay ahead of the girls, which is why I kept looking back by swimming backstroke, and also wonder who or what's behind me. I'm a seasoned enough swimmer to know that the same guy hasn't moved off my hip without straining to check. So contrary to opinions, or commentators, I was NOT "looking for Lionel" when I was looking back. I knew he was trying to stay with me. I had no "formal arrangement," so if he lost my feet at the conservative pace I was swimming, that was his concern.


And you are correct, I should not have called him a derogatory term, deleted….

As Diablo said above, the problem in this thread is Matt's tale seems at odds with the Sanders camp. The stories are different so someone is intentionally obfuscating, which is dumb to do but there you go.

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because I had the foresight to take advantage of anything I could see, starting with sleeping bag ties on my shoes so I didn't have to tie them!!!! And then a one piece suit to avoid all that transition time. And that time I ran barefoot and won by 2 seconds, or that time I wore my wetsuit on the bike for a mile to get the one mile bike prime, or the time I had my helmet in my mouth out of transition and put it on once down the road and moving fast, and on and on.


You need to write a book...

I'm wondering what the motivation is for Chrabot to help out Sanders? Are they good friends? Or was their incentives involved? This is a whole different story if somehow Chrabot was paid off to do this.

The story just goes to show why the swim is so important in a triathlon for Pros and even age groupers. It should be a good lesson.

Well said Monty. Another issue is that ALL athletes are responsible for knowing the rules. Case closed.

I accept at face value that they are friends as they both have said.

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Damn, I know its multiple posts in different threads but still. Matt has been registered for 5 years and I agree his tone is just playing it off like it is nothin. I agree that sanders/barrie owned up to it. I know that stupid blocking and dropping back rules hinder the cyclists and so I totally understand why this would happen. It would be easy to pay someone to continually come up in front of Frodo or Keinle only to make them drop back and re pass. Charbot would have been even better at that to be honest and would have made a bigger difference for Sanders. That would be impossible to tell even on the live feed bc it seemed to happen this year but people have to pass so many to take even one position. I guess my take is to reduce it to 35 for the pro race or even less so that the "train" matters less.