True, funny and hits a little close to home......I love it.

So I'm getting the sense that maybe I should start including the zeroes? :-)

Thanks all. Will do. Very helpful!!

I do not know if I understand your question. Are you asking if you take a break of 10 minutes during a 20 minute effort? So 10 min hard, 10 min rest, 10 min hard? Without autopause my best 20 minute power during that would be much lower than with autopause turned off.

If that was not the question and more a question about my scenario, my scenario was not really about the 20 minute power, but the 60 minute power that would result with auto-pause being turned on.

I will admit that many times I have forgotten to stop recording when I enter T2. So that is a downside, but you can always edit your ride files afterwards to chop off the ride after you have stopped moving.

If they are not a big deal, then why do you have auto-pause turned on?

Yea, longer breaks like a long coffee stop on a group ride I am unsure on stopping. For example if I ride my bike to the ferry and then take the ferry (~30 minutes plus any wait for the ferry), I would not have my computer running the whole time. I would either just have seperate rides or pause during the ferry ride. But people having multiple 5 minute breaks during a 100 mile training ride to simulate an ironman are really setting unrealistic numbers if they want to simulate a race where they would not be stopping.

See bolded above.

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"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz

Don't forget the 30 s rolling average.

Lower yes. My question is which number is closer to what you can actually produce for 20min in my scenario(or if we did the same thing in your scenario for that matter)?

None of which is perfect but auto pause on will always give you a more realistic number if you look at average power during a ride except for in the most extreme scenarios. Like I said earlier you always have to consider the circumstances when you evaluate the ride afterwards anyway so I don't really understand why including non moving data in the averages is better.

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BA coaching http://www.bjornandersson.se

I'm going to do a minor hijack of this thread with a quick somewhat related question.

From what I understand V.I. is the ratio of NP to AV. Am I correct in thinking that a training ride with several stops or slowing down for traffic will have a higher V.I. than say a race that should be a relatively uninterrupted effort and more focused steady ride? Also, will a hilly route cause a higher V.I. typically? I'm somewhat new to power training and just trying to slowly understand. On a normal steady state training ride my V.I. is typically > 1.1.

That's my take on it. I want to see what my average power was while riding and I don't think a few short stops here and there change the ride much. Plus, Trainingpeaks shows the total time in parenthesis so I can see how much time was spent stopped and I take that into account and minimize it on key sessions.

If I'm going to get so anal about my data that I'm worrying about a few minutes at stop lights, I'll just do all my riding indoors.

Yes VI is the relationship between AVG power and NP. One extreme example of this is a hilly group ride I did a few weeks ago, with a lot of waiting to regroup at the top of the hills. no pause, no zeros, my AVG power was 162, but my NP was 231, so my VI was 1.43. On that same ride last week by myself, and I didn't hit many traffic lights, my AP was 218 and my NP was 256 for a VI of 1.17. During a race on a flat course with very few turns your VI should be close to 1.00.
To me I think of VI as the number of "matches" I can burn on the bike during a race. What that number is however will be different for every person and different race distances

Rather than starting a new thread I'm going to hijack with my mostly related question. When displaying average power on a head unit what smoothing is typically used to ride along with? The case I'm looking for is when I'm doing a 5 minute interval and trying to hold 250 watts power, do I want 3 second, 5 second, or 10 second average to try to maintain the interval?

I go with 3s and 30s averaging. 3s gives you a smooth but recent view of power and then 30s gives you wider range. So if you're trying to hold 250w and you look down and your 3s is 280w, but your 30s is 260w then you know you just spiked recently. If you're doing 280s on 3s and also on 30s then you know you've been going quite hard for a longer stint.

I never look at direct power while riding. I always leave it on 3sec power so the numbers don't jump all over the place.

Regarding auto-pause...since I base most of my training around ride time, I keep auto-pause on. Otherwise that 4 hour ride would really only be 3 and half hours with a break in the middle (for instance).

If auto pause is screwing up your ride so much that you can't figure out your pace for a race you need a new to go find a new route. A 1-2 min rest is going to have a near zero effect on your ride and power output. Yes if you're doing an FTP test you shouldn't have stop lights in the middle of the test, if stop lights are screwing up your training during a regular ride you are way over thinking this.

Because sometimes you have to stop? Why would I want it averaging zeros every time I have to stop at a sign or red light?

Is that really how you ride?

Numbers except for, you know, actual time riding.

To get the most accurate numbers. You want those zeros, because you are not producing any watts and are resting.

It is an extreme example, but it is to illustrate how not using zeros will lead to inaccurate data.

Well I think neither will give the best 20 minute better test, but having auto-pause can change your MMP and make it inaccurate. Doing this every ride and it can add up.

Average power is the total mechanical energy of the ride divided by the total duration of the ride (i.e. finish time less start time).

Anything else is not average power.

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http://www.cyclecoach.com
http://www.aerocoach.com.au

This. Same thing with people saying they averaged 20 mph on their ride while taking the stops out of their average. The effort is not the same, and if nothing else you are inflating your FTP just standing there. Believe whatever you want to believe about your power, but if you are using auto pause you are doing yourself a disservice. Your inflated power number won't make you any faster, and taking out the zeros hurts your training by incorrectly reporting back to formulas that expect them to be there.

I could ride 150 watts for 2 hours and average just that.

I could ride 150 watts for an hour and then 4 hours later ride 150 watts for an hour again and my average power is 50 watts.

Does that hurt my training? It's just an extreme example of what you are saying.

jaretj

I'm going to assume 150 watts is nowhere near your threshold, but I really don't know. Try this differently.

What if your threshold is 275 watts. Do you think these are the same workout?

Workout 1
7AM 250 watts for 1 hr
10AM 250 watts for 1 hr

Workout 2
7AM 250 watts for 2 hours

Do you think you could even complete workout #2?

If you ran 8x800 @2:30/800 with 3 mins recovery do you record the workout as a 20 minute 4 miler?

Recovery matters to your body, so it should matter in your record of the workout.