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Home > Forum > Triathlon Forum > IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded

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IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded
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Fred D
Aug 21, 15 6:25
Post #1 of 47 (5587 views)
 
Pregame:






Drove to Mont Tremblant from State College, PA, arriving Thursday.
OWS with Bob S. (winner 35-39M) and my daughter Megan on Friday am. Megan took it easy on us.

Forecast was for a hot day on Sunday.

This was our 4th visit to MT, as my wife and daughters really love the venue. Lots of kids activities and it's also easy to spectate. Our hotel room actually had a good view of the run course in town.

Hydrated as well as I could before. Usual diet day before race.

Race Day:

Up at 4am. Coffee, hydration, 2 bagels (small) and 2 pop tarts. This is the usual.
Pumped tires up to 90 PSI. Added water to the bike. Garmin 800 attached. Out of there quickly and back to the hotel. Walked with Tracie and Megan (12) and Kate (9) to the swim start. Quick swim warm up.

Swim:

1:04:33 (watch actually said 1:02, but mats and all)
41st in AG

Started on the inside. Ran the first bit and then started swimming. Clear swim. Stayed just inside of the buoys until the turnaround. Never any melee situations. The new swim start at IMMT is definitely something I love. Swam back with hardly anyone around me and wondered if I was off course, but wasn't. Easy strokes and focused on just using the least amount of energy I could. Ended up swimming the fastest and easiest IM swim ever. Key I believe was really good sighting and straight swimming.

Also, I switched to the Zoot Prophet 3.0 this year and I really, really like this suit. More arm freedom than my prior suits and I have had the best swims of my tri career in this suit. Highly recommend this!






T1:

5:37

Long run up from the water. Was wearing the new Zoot aero suit. Swam with the torso down so as not to restrict arm motion. Easily was able to get the arms through and zip up. Quickly got helmet on and shoes. Decent transition.

Bike:

5:00:43. My Garmin had 4:59, but of course there is time from crossing the mat getting on and off the bike, etc.






Set-up:
S-works Shiv. S-works 53/39 Crank, 11-27 Dura Ace cassette.
Hydration. Speedfil rear hydration (1 bottle) and Speedfil BTA system. Nothing on seat/down tube.
Tools/gels. Specialized Fuel Cell, small BTS bag and Small top tube bag.
Wheels. Zipp FC 808 clinchers. Carbon breaking surface.
Tires. Specialized Cotton Turbo Clinchers. 24/24. Latex tubes. 90 PSI.
Helmet: LG P09.
Shoes: Specialized S-works road shoes. I have the trivents as well, but prefer the road shoes for IM.
Zoot Aero Speed Suit.
Weight 160 lbs. 5-11"




Goal was to start easy and then pick up after 20' or so. Started the real effort around 117. Maintained aero for as long as possible except on a few climbs etc.

First few hours were very easy on effort. Followed the lower end of the wattage goals (210-230). Coasted a lot on the downhills. Really very little wind at all. Passed massive numbers of people... tried to stay away from people, and surprisingly little blocking. Many draft marshals out there, which was great.Watched a guy powering up climbs and then kept passing him on flatter sections. Must have been pushing 400+ watts as I was doing close to 300 at that stage.

First 1.5 hours were not hot, but that changed quickly. Hydrated with water and gels and then gatorade for hour 3. Tried to drink as much as I could without over doing it.

First loop was close to 2:26, so backed off on the second loop as it was heating up. Ended up adjusting down the power goals by 10-15 watts for the second loop as I suspected the increasing heat might play a toll. I was right, it did.

Had some lower back pain at around 3.5 hours, so decided to get out of aero during most climbs, but in aero for everything flat and down hill. I do have a history of a disc herniation...

Overall ride was 214 NP watts, which was about 10-15 lower than the targets would have been with normal temperatures. Did a lot of non-pedaling once up to speed on descents.

Notes...
Really strived to improve my aerodynamics this year. After missing Kona by 7 sec last year, I worked hard on this. Water bottle set up, aero kit, maintaining position, helmet and tires, pressure, etc.

Plan to work with some folks in our triathlon discussion group to get tunnel time, but honestly I think I'm pretty slippery at this time!

Have to say that I was 9' faster than last year on 8 less watts (NP)

Did not likely take in enough fluids, but considering that I have much better bike fitness this year, I had felt that riding 212 watts was not "over-biking". Who knows?



T2:

Last year 4', this year 2:03. Did not take off the aero suit, probably should have, as it got really, really hot. Good transition otherwise. Should have applied a bit more sun block...


Run:




Started off strong. Back spasms went away completely. Felt good. Decided that would aim for 8:10-8:20 pace and hit this pretty consistently for the first 12 miles. Hydrated, but not until 20' into the run. Probably should have started earlier, but wanted to ensure I transitioned from the bike completely. Ice into the tri kit and hat at aid stations. Gatorade, water for the start. Had planned on gels, but decided against it. Switched to coke around mile 12.

Saw the family at the 13 mile mark and was starting to decline. Felt the legs getting tight and was having a hard time moving forward at that stage. Pace decreased to 9-10' per mile, then got worse. Walked only when I had to, but the "run" pace was pretty slow. Hydrated at every aid station I could. Felt extreme thirst, dreaming of the next aid station where I could take in more and more fluids.

Funny, I never experienced any of the bloating or cramps that I have in the past. Just felt dehydrated. A bit out of it, but not terrible.

Was 4th off the bike and 7th until mile 23 or so... but when 2 guys in my AG passed, there was nothing I could do. Just could NOT run faster. Have learned from the past on how not to end up in the medical tent... and I just stayed an easier effort.

Not 100% sure what went wrong?

1. Heat.
2. Dehydration.
3. Overbike?




The usual answer would be overbike, however much lower watts than I had planned or held in training on very hot days. Also, stomach was fine, usually it shuts down when I overbike.

My guess is that I came in a little under-hydrated to the day and fell behind on the bike. I had much better fitness on the run than this, but I'm really pleased overall with this race... despite the issues.

I've continued to improve in the sport. I'm actually (mainly) happy with this race.

1. My best swim ever.
2. Best bike split ever.
3. Persevered thru the run despite realizing my Kona dream was over. Thought about pulling the plug after the first run loop, but kept on going.
4. Enjoyed the finish!




Would like to thank many people.

My Coach, Shane MacLeod @ Scotia Multi Sports. Best coach and helped me get to the start line in one pice!

My good friends, who supported me along the way, including those who couldn't make the trip (James R.), and Kudos to Bob S. for winning M35-39!

The Triathlon Discussion Group on facebook that I started in January. PM me if interested, as there is some great discussion that helped answer many of my questions about aerodynamics and triathlon in general. Great Group!

My 2 beautiful and supportive daughters Megan and Kate. Megan can out swim 99% of triathletes, and I enjoyed the pre-swim with her. Kate helped her Dad hobble from the finish area back to the room as my wife and Megan got the bike and gear. Both rockstars!

My wonderful wife who puts up with this lunatic sport of mine. She was all over the course cheering for me. All of my results and successes in this sport are directly related to her support. She's the one who gets to pick up the pieces when things fall apart.




Lastly, I would like to thank my sponsors:
1. Team Zoot
2. Zoot Sports
3. Garmin
4. Speedfil.
5. Smith Optics


Kona? Yeah, missed by 7 sec last year. This year, it rolled only 1 spot, so 9th out of 330? just isn't good enough. I'm ok with this, as I did my best at this race. I'm time limited (average 10 hours per week over the year and have a job that destroys my sleep over and over), and the additional sacrifice of doing another race in 7 weeks in the heat does not necessarily appeal to me. It would not have been ideal for my family either. I'm a physician, husband and father far before being a triathlete.

I believe that I get AMAZING results from my limited training and sleep destructive job. 10:00 last year and 10:21 in the heat on 10 hours a week! If I'm going to be disappointed in that then I'm an idiot. I suspect many ahead of me are training more than me. Not sure, but triathlon is a hobby for me.

FAMILY > PROFESSION > TRIATHLON

Honestly, I'm done with the Kona dream for now. I will still be doing Tri's and another IM next year (IMLP), but if I were to assess this race I would say the following: I had a really good race. I melted on the run. Probably some mistakes were made, but if you look at the IMMT results, most people melted on the run. If I assessed it from a KQ POV, I would call it a failure. I refuse to see these races (and especially this one) as a failure. So, again, sort of done with Kona as a primary goal. I race Ironman because... I like Ironman. Crazy, yeah. Still searching for a better, stronger performance, but Kona isn't part of that for the time being.

Would be happy to address any questions.

Thanks for reading!




Fred Doucette
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
owtbac86
Aug 21, 15 8:51
Post #2 of 47 (5399 views)
Nice RR, Fred and congrats on a great race!

I've been in your shoes before and probably will be again - I've missed KQ by 100 meters, 1 minute, a portajohn stop, etc. - just the way it is. It is an interesting conundrum - I also judge IM races from a KQ perspective - it's pretty binary success/failure.

I do think that thought process is fine, as long as you enjoy the journey getting to the start line.

Sit on your decision to not go for KQ - you're definitely in the hunt.

Go back to the files, race decisions, etc. in a couple of weeks and assess what you did right and what you didn't. I think that's what makes IM so interesting - it's a constant science project with a bunch of variables. I would say you'll need to work out the sleep issue, since I've found that to be a killer.

It will get tougher next year, though, with many races going to 40 slots. This will push some races to 3 to 4 slots for M45, in lieu of 4 to 5 slots.

Good luck!
Team Kiwami
Instagram
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
teichs42
Aug 21, 15 9:01
Post #3 of 47 (5367 views)
Congrats! People like you have always baffled me...training so little but racing so fast! Could you go into how this works a little? Is it from years of endurance training? High intensity most of those 10 hours? Lower hours of training is something that appeals to me because I don't think I could hit 15+ consistently, but I just don't get how you have the endurance for an IM with 10-12 hours a week and be able to perform well. I'm nowhere near KQing, in fact, my goal in my next IM would be to break 14 hours (25-29 right now), so performing for me doesn't mean going fast, to me it means being able to go steady all day.
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maine Rob
Aug 21, 15 9:03
Post #4 of 47 (5363 views)
Congratulations on a great race. Those are great swim and bike times, and your hard work and consistency has clearly paid off. Rough day for running, but sounds like you've got it all in perspective.
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul
Aug 21, 15 9:08
Post #5 of 47 (5336 views)
Awesome race.

From everything you said, i don't think you overbiked. I'll say the same thing as I said to Nate....I think people under estimate the first 10-20K of the run and that they may be overcooking the early part of the run. But it is soooo hard to tell because the over cook run pace in the first half is EASIER THAN EVERY ONE OF OUR EASY TRAINING RUNS (sorry, I used the Barry Shepley approved all caps). My good IM runs are done at the pace that I recover at in between run intervals. That's how easy the run pace ends up being in a "good IM". Also WTC run hydration really sucks. I wish they would give you full bottles of Gatorade like at Wildflower. You pick up a bottle and run with it for a couple of aid stations and get the full 710 mL in the bottle and dump it...those cups are not enough. At IM South Africa they had these really cool plastic bags with 200mL of ice cold water in them. You just bit off the corner and squirted an actual reasonable serving into your mouth. I thought that was awesome. My next IM I am not only starting the run with a full bottle of Infinite as I have done in the last few, but also putting a full bottle in special needs. I just find fluid in cups does not cut it in the heat.

Your race was still really awesome. Well done and I hope to see you chase the road to Kona.

I like this part of Owtback86's post

"Go back to the files, race decisions, etc. in a couple of weeks and assess what you did right and what you didn't. I think that's what makes IM so interesting - it's a constant science project with a bunch of variables. I would say you'll need to work out the sleep issue, since I've found that to be a killer. "


The sleep issue is my number 1 performance limiter. I am on the road 30 weeks per year, usually at least 3 time zones away, but more than half those weeks at 6-14 time zones away. I knew at my early season races, that would limit me and it did. Then I had a nice build at home before Whistler and had a really good half at Muskoka but froze at Whistler (I suck in that).....so I am back in that proverbial "constant science project mode"....just got support from home to go race in Tahoe if I want to extend this silly science project.
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
lightheir
Aug 21, 15 9:10
Post #6 of 47 (5332 views)
Congrats on a great result. On 10 hours a week of training, no less!
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [owtbac86] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fred D
Aug 21, 15 10:00
Post #7 of 47 (5232 views)
owtbac86 wrote:
Nice RR, Fred and congrats on a great race!

I've been in your shoes before and probably will be again - I've missed KQ by 100 meters, 1 minute, a portajohn stop, etc. - just the way it is. It is an interesting conundrum - I also judge IM races from a KQ perspective - it's pretty binary success/failure.

I do think that thought process is fine, as long as you enjoy the journey getting to the start line.

Sit on your decision to not go for KQ - you're definitely in the hunt.

Go back to the files, race decisions, etc. in a couple of weeks and assess what you did right and what you didn't. I think that's what makes IM so interesting - it's a constant science project with a bunch of variables. I would say you'll need to work out the sleep issue, since I've found that to be a killer.

It will get tougher next year, though, with many races going to 40 slots. This will push some races to 3 to 4 slots for M45, in lieu of 4 to 5 slots.

Good luck!

I thank you for the kind words!

I will take time to assess, however I have a limited amount of time to work with for training. If success is simply KQ or bust, I'm spending too much of my valuable free time and money on something that will likely have a negative outcome each time. Passed on KQ 5 years ago. Missed by 7s last year, and melt down on the run here. All were GREAT races for me, and I'd rather try to improve, without the negativity of no KQ.

Heck at Kona, guys like me are fodder anyway. I understand it's a cool experience, but I honestly really just love SBR, and really like ironman racing. Love the process.

My run training probably had little chance to support the pace I needed, as I have been barely making 100 miles per month.

I'm kind of amazed I get the results I do, to be honest...
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Maine Rob] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fred D
Aug 21, 15 10:01
Post #8 of 47 (5227 views)
Maine Rob wrote:
Congratulations on a great race. Those are great swim and bike times, and your hard work and consistency has clearly paid off. Rough day for running, but sounds like you've got it all in perspective.

It was on a razor's edge wrt the run, and the heat and a few other mistakes hurt me.

Remember racing IMLP in 2008? ;-)
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fred D
Aug 21, 15 10:06
Post #9 of 47 (5209 views)
teichs42 wrote:
Congrats! People like you have always baffled me...training so little but racing so fast! Could you go into how this works a little? Is it from years of endurance training? High intensity most of those 10 hours? Lower hours of training is something that appeals to me because I don't think I could hit 15+ consistently, but I just don't get how you have the endurance for an IM with 10-12 hours a week and be able to perform well. I'm nowhere near KQing, in fact, my goal in my next IM would be to break 14 hours (25-29 right now), so performing for me doesn't mean going fast, to me it means being able to go steady all day.

I have an incredible coach, who understands my schedule and gets the most out of me. I swim at intensity, but only 2-2.5 hours a week or so. I run easy, but not enough (which is the real cause of the problem).

I bike at high intensity.
Almost all my rides were above IM intensity. A number of rides of NP 260 for 3.5-4 hours. (FTP=310). 5 hour rides at NP 230, etc.

I do not have any real sports background, but have been doing triathlons for 10 years or so (7 IM's). so I suspect I have a good base.

I also *think* I have decent mental toughness, as I can push thru stuff that maybe some others can't?

To clarify, that's my weekly average... I did go over 10 hours a week at various points, but of course well under as well at other points.
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fred D
Aug 21, 15 10:08
Post #10 of 47 (5198 views)
devashish_paul wrote:
Awesome race.

From everything you said, i don't think you overbiked. I'll say the same thing as I said to Nate....I think people under estimate the first 10-20K of the run and that they may be overcooking the early part of the run. But it is soooo hard to tell because the over cook run pace in the first half is EASIER THAN EVERY ONE OF OUR EASY TRAINING RUNS (sorry, I used the Barry Shepley approved all caps). My good IM runs are done at the pace that I recover at in between run intervals. That's how easy the run pace ends up being in a "good IM". Also WTC run hydration really sucks. I wish they would give you full bottles of Gatorade like at Wildflower. You pick up a bottle and run with it for a couple of aid stations and get the full 710 mL in the bottle and dump it...those cups are not enough. At IM South Africa they had these really cool plastic bags with 200mL of ice cold water in them. You just bit off the corner and squirted an actual reasonable serving into your mouth. I thought that was awesome. My next IM I am not only starting the run with a full bottle of Infinite as I have done in the last few, but also putting a full bottle in special needs. I just find fluid in cups does not cut it in the heat.

Your race was still really awesome. Well done and I hope to see you chase the road to Kona.

I like this part of Owtback86's post

"Go back to the files, race decisions, etc. in a couple of weeks and assess what you did right and what you didn't. I think that's what makes IM so interesting - it's a constant science project with a bunch of variables. I would say you'll need to work out the sleep issue, since I've found that to be a killer. "


The sleep issue is my number 1 performance limiter. I am on the road 30 weeks per year, usually at least 3 time zones away, but more than half those weeks at 6-14 time zones away. I knew at my early season races, that would limit me and it did. Then I had a nice build at home before Whistler and had a really good half at Muskoka but froze at Whistler (I suck in that).....so I am back in that proverbial "constant science project mode"....just got support from home to go race in Tahoe if I want to extend this silly science project.

Thanks Dev!

There is some real gold in there. I aimed for 8-8:20 pace for the first 10 miles and it felt fine, but in retrospect, considering my lower running year, it was probably too fast considering the heat.

I did run 3:33 last year, and "felt" I was holding back. Probably wasn't.

Appreciate your thoughts.
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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Runner Rick
Aug 21, 15 10:24
Post #11 of 47 (5155 views)
Fred D wrote:
To clarify, that's my weekly average... I did go over 10 hours a week at various points, but of course well under as well at other points.

Averaging 10 hours per week is a LOT different than only having max 10 hours a week to train. My yearly average is maybe half my hours in peak weeks.

That being said, it sounds like your intensity in your limited bike time has really paid off. It's not easy mentally to know every time you hop on the bike, you have to hammer.
Proud Member of Chris McDonald's 2018 Big Sexy Race Team "That which doesn't kill me, will only make me stronger"
Blog-Twitter-Instagram-Race Reports - 2018 Races: IM Florida 70.3, IM Raleigh 70.3, IM 70.3 World Championships - South Africa, IM North Carolina 70.3
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NavEEd
Aug 21, 15 10:35
Post #12 of 47 (5117 views)
On reading this I realize I'm never qualifying for Kona. lol

Anyone have any EPO? :)

Just kidding. :)
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Runner Rick] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fred D
Aug 21, 15 10:36
Post #13 of 47 (5110 views)
Runner Rick wrote:
Fred D wrote:
To clarify, that's my weekly average... I did go over 10 hours a week at various points, but of course well under as well at other points.

Averaging 10 hours per week is a LOT different than only having max 10 hours a week to train. My yearly average is maybe half my hours in peak weeks.

That being said, it sounds like your intensity in your limited bike time has really paid off. It's not easy mentally to know every time you hop on the bike, you have to hammer.
agree. I am not trying to misrepresent my training. I get about 530 hours in a year overall.
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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BubbaKardashian
Aug 21, 15 10:36
Post #14 of 47 (5109 views)
Great race and report.

Do you mind sharing what power meter and head capture unit you use?
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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alex_korr
Aug 21, 15 10:43
Post #15 of 47 (5095 views)
Very nice effort and a great write up as well!
Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd
Aug 21, 15 10:45
Post #16 of 47 (5084 views)
Like I mentioned in our FB group, Fred, you just need more run volume leading into the race. I think your initial pacing decision may have been an issue but if the point of the race was to KQ, those are the calls you have to make and the chances you have to take. You were 4th coming of the bike, so you were right there and it did take a while before you started to get shuffled back. I don't think if you went easier early it would have been materially different. You just needed the run fitness to go 3:3X and it wasn't in your legs.
-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project
Quote Reply
Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [BubbaKardashian] [ In reply to ]
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Fred D
Aug 21, 15 10:57
Post #17 of 47 (5033 views)
Garmin 800.
Powertap (808)
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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teichs42
Aug 21, 15 10:58
Post #18 of 47 (5031 views)
Thanks for the insight. What did a normal week look like for you in terms of the bike? Not weeks where you were riding those long hours. Let's say 4-6 months out. Are you on the trainer most of the time?
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Fred D
Aug 21, 15 10:59
Post #19 of 47 (5023 views)
Agree, Bryan.

I actually needed a 3:50, but in the heat... that would have been tough. I believe I was in better run shape last year. So not 3:33, more like 3:40+. Add the heat and some hydration mistakes, and 3:50 was a stretch. I went for it, but fell apart later.

Was a struggle to even break 10' miles in the second loop
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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Andrewmc
Aug 21, 15 11:01
Post #20 of 47 (5015 views)
Good report

If I were that quick and wanted to qualify I'd bite the bullet and do a European IM. France 25-29 rolled to 23, don't know about other AG's but its so expensive for Europeans to consider HA that if you're at the pointy end it seems a better bet

That said I have 10 hours and relative to yourself I suck, so I'm taking up chess
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [teichs42] [ In reply to ]
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Fred D
Aug 21, 15 11:03
Post #21 of 47 (5010 views)
I'd say 3-5 hours on the bike. Much at high intensity. FTP and beyond.
I live in Central PA, so much on the trainer until mid April I think. I did a bit of riding in Florida in early March, maybe 3 rides?

I think my IF for the year of riding is something like 0.80 for ALL rides, with the shorter ones higher...
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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Maine Rob
Aug 21, 15 11:03
Post #22 of 47 (5008 views)
Fred D wrote:
Maine Rob wrote:
Congratulations on a great race. Those are great swim and bike times, and your hard work and consistency has clearly paid off. Rough day for running, but sounds like you've got it all in perspective.


It was on a razor's edge wrt the run, and the heat and a few other mistakes hurt me.

Remember racing IMLP in 2008? ;-)

Oh yeah, I remember the eight inches of rain. Definitely not a problem with overheating that day. That was actually my last ironman, although I'm getting back in the game and have signed up for next year's Mont-Tremblant. Also bought a powermeter (which just arrived today) and plan to get serious about the bike training.
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Fred D
Aug 21, 15 11:06
Post #23 of 47 (4998 views)
Andrewmc wrote:
Good report

If I were that quick and wanted to qualify I'd bite the bullet and do a European IM. France 25-29 rolled to 23, don't know about other AG's but its so expensive for Europeans to consider HA that if you're at the pointy end it seems a better bet

That said I have 10 hours and relative to yourself I suck, so I'm taking up chess

I think that's just the point... I'd rather just do the races I want to do and simply forget about the realities of Kona. It would be a stretch under my current life situation, and I'm not going to sacrifice being their for my kids/wife/job for the sake of being a BOP Kona guy.

I'm doing IMLP next year... definitely not the smart KQ choice, but I really like the race!
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Maine Rob] [ In reply to ]
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Fred D
Aug 21, 15 11:07
Post #24 of 47 (4995 views)
You will love IMMT.

Great venue!

Stay in the village.
Founder of THE TRIATHLON COLLECTIVE (Closed Facebook Group). A SBR discussion group without the white noise/trolling!
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Re: IMMT RR. 9th in M45-49. No Kona. Melted on the run... Strangely ok with the way it unfolded [Fred D] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul
Aug 21, 15 11:11
Post #25 of 47 (4989 views)
Fred D wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Awesome race.

From everything you said, i don't think you overbiked. I'll say the same thing as I said to Nate....I think people under estimate the first 10-20K of the run and that they may be overcooking the early part of the run. But it is soooo hard to tell because the over cook run pace in the first half is EASIER THAN EVERY ONE OF OUR EASY TRAINING RUNS (sorry, I used the Barry Shepley approved all caps). My good IM runs are done at the pace that I recover at in between run intervals. That's how easy the run pace ends up being in a "good IM". Also WTC run hydration really sucks. I wish they would give you full bottles of Gatorade like at Wildflower. You pick up a bottle and run with it for a couple of aid stations and get the full 710 mL in the bottle and dump it...those cups are not enough. At IM South Africa they had these really cool plastic bags with 200mL of ice cold water in them. You just bit off the corner and squirted an actual reasonable serving into your mouth. I thought that was awesome. My next IM I am not only starting the run with a full bottle of Infinite as I have done in the last few, but also putting a full bottle in special needs. I just find fluid in cups does not cut it in the heat.

Your race was still really awesome. Well done and I hope to see you chase the road to Kona.

I like this part of Owtback86's post

"Go back to the files, race decisions, etc. in a couple of weeks and assess what you did right and what you didn't. I think that's what makes IM so interesting - it's a constant science project with a bunch of variables. I would say you'll need to work out the sleep issue, since I've found that to be a killer. "


The sleep issue is my number 1 performance limiter. I am on the road 30 weeks per year, usually at least 3 time zones away, but more than half those weeks at 6-14 time zones away. I knew at my early season races, that would limit me and it did. Then I had a nice build at home before Whistler and had a really good half at Muskoka but froze at Whistler (I suck in that).....so I am back in that proverbial "constant science project mode"....just got support from home to go race in Tahoe if I want to extend this silly science project.


Thanks Dev!

There is some real gold in there. I aimed for 8-8:20 pace for the first 10 miles and it felt fine, but in retrospect, considering my lower running year, it was probably too fast considering the heat.

I did run 3:33 last year, and "felt" I was holding back. Probably wasn't.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Fred I think you have the right perspective....this journey that we are all on cannot be about KQ or FAIL. If I view my record, in that case I failed 90% of my IM's whereas I see them as a fulfilling compliment to life and a means to self improvement/introspection and connecting with like minded people.

But I truly believe that IM run pace is the pace that one can "recover" at during a normal day. Yesterday I went to the local track and did a set of 12x100, 10x200, 2x400m all at "target 10K pace" with 100m jog in between. The idea was to get the legs rolling quick but then the "interval" ends before the heart race crept up. The day was around 30C but Houston like humidity and through the 100's I was find to cruise in between at 5:20 to 5:30 perK (which should be my recovery pace), but then mid way through the 200's, the recovery pace dropped slower and slower with the humidity load. I could not cool myself fast enough to get the proper recovery before the next fast leg. I have done some track sessions in crazy humity in Taiwan and Japan in the summer where the only way I could get my heart rate down low enough was to break into a walk before the next "interval" (whatever interval is....it is a bit irrelevant, because that is the "load" segment....the recovery part is the "unload").

I think what happened in Tremblant is that people went out at their regular recovery/IM pace. That was fine for 21-30K (I see from your splits you headed out at last year's pace), but then after a while you're no longer at recovery pace.

At IM Texas I had a not great bike, but on a day a bit more severe than Tremblant I headed out super easy. I moved up from 30th off the bike to a 17th with a 4:09. I realize this is slow, but realitive to the guys around me it was actually fast in 50-54 (speed are relative).

Patrick McCrann from EN says if you under bike, you have 26 miles of running to make up for that mistake. I THINK we can take this further and say, "if you under biked and under ran the first 10 miles of the run, you get 16 miles to make up for that mistake". Especially on a hot humid day, on the run, there is no way of shaking off that thermal load without an insanely slow shuffle or a walk. Think about it this way....if you run at your bike effort of say 220W, that means you are generating 880W of heat. The only way to get rid of the 880W of heat as some point is you run slower and say go at 150W, which only generates 600W of heat.

Owtback86 used this heat generation calculation for a hot race at IMCda to appropriately meter out his run effort so as to not generate too much heat. On the bike, he air flow takes care of it....in Tremblant in the trail it would be a Taiwan sauna day.

I think you are a mix for a KQ...like I said last year after the 7 second miss, your T1 can be streamlined....you need to be sub 4:30 in Tremblant. But you are in the mix for sure for a KQ...and if you miss it, this is not failure. Kona is cherry on the cake....you still get the full cake of a 140.6 mile finish! Keep enjoying the sport.
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