see, this is the problem. you insinuated that teejay "is for the omerta, and publicly defending dopers." before you say, "no, i didn't," here is what you wrote:

If Tejay is for the omerta, and publicly defending dopers, that might not be the best tact, for his sponsors, assuming he values his sponsors and wants more sponsors of his 'clean cycling' and Tejay, the brand. That unbent or apparently unbent voice is a double edged sword- as it will turn off some of his fans, too, and they will become non-fans.

you, and eric, have a penchant for denigrating people who don't express the view you hold with the ardency with which you think it should be expressed. the two of you get very pissy when you aren't listened to (eric, earlier up in this thread: "ask a journalist, if you can find one around here").

this is typical of the mob mentality of the internet, but i think people are getting tired of it.

now, look, here's the other side. redemption has been offered, but has not usually been embraced. michi weiss is a case in point on this forum. in fact, everybody with the last name of weiss. consider the case of hincapie, here's a guy who, if i understand it right, was either in and out of doping or entirely doping for upwards of a 20-year cycling career. he saw the entire arc of lance's career, everything that happened to emma o'reilly, the lemonds, the andreus, companies that lost lawsuits they should have won, and he never said a thing. he watched while they were mauled and stood over their carcasses. never said a word. but now he's pretty much redeemed. not a hero, as tygart tried to make him. but redeemed. why? because of a full-throated, believable apology.

so, what sponsors, teams, fans, want to hear is humility, transparency, and straight talk even if the idea is complex. i think people have gotten really tired of the binary choice: you hate with the ardency of my hate, or you're enabling the other side. i believe teejay can voice a complex parsing of the issue of doping, and he can withstand the shouting of the mob. teejay is not the one in need of a PR expert. all those caught doping (or other onerous act) who don't fall entirely on their swords with ultimate transparency are the one's who got the bad PR advice.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Because he expresses an understanding of want happened, or says maybe LA deserves a break, doesn't mean he supports omert�. If you think it does, spend a little time gaining an understanding of what omert� was/is, cause it isn't publicly making honest comments like that. Quite the opposite, in fact.

Like I said, you prefer a boring, vanilla pc comment about how pretty the leaves will be and whatnot (yet label him boring for being honest). Seen that movie before and know how it ends.

I moved up from 35-39. somebody already has 45-49. I may have to get creative like "Cat3" or something else...

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

well actually USA Cycling just made the call and LA cannot ride the fondo (or if he chooses to then USA can determine the punishment as they have no real way to stop him)

that was NOT directed at ST, you, or Herbert. In fact Herbert and I have had this discussion face to face in Kona. I was a little loose, referring to the endurance sports space on the internet. You guys had and continue to have solid coverage on that stuff, and have never succombed to the click-bait style that many sites use when it comes to LA and other "scandals".

I do get pissy however :)

you know my position on LA, but enough is enough. A lifetime ban can't get any longer. As CarlSpackler said, USAC and USADA need to move on to what's important, now.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I do indeed think that Tejay is for the Omerta based on his comments, hence what I wrote. I also, am completely unimpressed with Hincapie, who has become super affluent from a career of cheating, and would not support anything that positively impacts his pocketbook. It would be nice to hear humility, transparency, and straight talk from the athletes, but sport is a business about money and success and questionable ethics, and cycling is a sport run pretty much by former dopers, so the reality of straight talk ever being possible seems to be very remote.

thanks for clearing that up.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"I do indeed think that Tejay is for the Omerta based on his comments, hence what I wrote."

i think you're in the small minority of people who believes that.

"I also, am completely unimpressed with Hincapie, who has become super affluent from a career of cheating, and would not support anything that positively impacts his pocketbook."

you're also in the minority of people who thinks that. now, i might join you in that minority. i don't know. i'm still thinking this over. i absolutely believe in redemption. but redemption requires, at a minimum, paying your "debt" to society (time in jail, serving a ban, paying a fine, resigning your position), but if you want real redemption and not just the ability to no longer be in jail or banned from competing - if you want your peers, your fans, sponsors, the community at large, to again embrace you - it's got to be a complete prostration and a transparent explanation of what you did.

with george, all that appropriate stuff was forthcoming. the world is more like me than it is like you: the world stands cocked and ready to forgive and george gave the world what it needed. my problem is that it all came after he got caught. i'd have been much more sympathetic if it all would've happened before he got caught.

so i'm not a big fan of anything right now that supports the career efforts of lance, george, levi, et al, but i would not criticize those who are in favor of lance's participation in george's gran fondo. this is the kind of thing that causes you and i to part ways. i'm willing to listen to a contrary argument and not brand the fellow forwarding the contrary argument a doping sympathizer.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Good PR move by Lance. I suspect he knew this would be the outcome. Chalk one up for him in the rehabilitation column.

I haven't been paying attention: did Hincapie name all the users, suppliers, medical/team personnel and all other enablers of the doping that went on? In the public record?

Channeling my inner Uli: if this race in question isn't an actual race with actual prizes, then it isn't a Gran Fondo. It is just an organized group ride.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I am shocked that you capitalized the acronym PR. I thought you self banned the your usage of the shift and caps lock keys?

Now carry on with this thread.

Straight talk is out there for anyone who takes the time to look, at least more than in the past. But the straight talk seems to be disagreeable to you, so I guess there's not much more to say.

"I haven't been paying attention: did Hincapie name all the users, suppliers, medical/team personnel and all other enablers of the doping that went on? In the public record?"

not that i know of. which just shows you how forgiving the public is. i am extremely forgiving. but i do need transparency, and a full airing of the past bad deeds. no ticky, no forgivy.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

"Forgiving" is not the word I would use.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

The first year of the ride Hincapie was serving his 6 month ban. He did the ride anyway and didn't wear an event bib number. The roads are open and are public.

Why not just find third party insurance and tell USAC off?

All I know is it was Tygart and USAC that brought down Lance Armstrong. I judge people by their enemies and their friends. Anyone who made themselves an enemy of Lance Armstrong when he was in his full pomp gets a lot of good points in my book.

Not many had the guts to stand up to Armstrong. Remember that, and whilst I'm at it, any Armstrong apologists still here?

As long as Lance can still do RAGBRAI, I'm good.

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I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...

Please explain what RAGBRAI means.

It stands for "Register's Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa".

Iowa is a state within The United States of America in case you are
wondering that too.

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

The Register�s Annual Great Bicycle Ride Across Iowa
http://ragbrai.com/

The short version is a drunken bike ride across the state of Iowa.

Google I'm sure has the official version.

Lance is know to show up from time to time on RAGBRAI.

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I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...

Please confirm are you pro Lance Armstrong or against him?.

When Tejay was asked last year (2013) about Lance during a Tour press conference- his answer that I posted above- is that "In my mind, he still won those Tours."


That statement above is pretty telling, in my humble opinion. I know that, if I was competing for a job through an interview process, bidding on a project for a certain work project- and if I found out that I (assume complete integrity for myself)- was duped by someone else or cheated me out of earning a fair living for my family, due to someone cheating, that would definitely bother me, and bother me tremendously if it was my livelihood. So, Tejay's cavalier attitude is just that, either extremely cavalier and / or naive and / or a protector of the sport by keeping the Omerta or ? I certainly wouldnt be defending the person that cheated me (or a fellow colleague with integrity). If he had a backbone or different belief system or ?, he would have said a different answer. This answer is not an attack at Lance, by the way, and you could replace Lance with any generic guilty doped rider. It's a statement purely about Tejay's thought process.

Yes

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I *heart* weak, dumb ass people...